No Squee?? seems like a staple, also since you do not play daze, would Path not be a better choice over swords?Originally Posted by Jokemon
ha, missed him, of course i play squee :)
Why would Path be better? I doesnt bother me that my OP get some life.
Most of the time I call my decks 5c scion of the UR dragon controll. But the judge simply ignores it and names the deck correctly :(
@Speill pierce it seems to situational for my meta and would not even give it a shot for my sb.
@md, I think in an aggro meta I would not play spell snare at all and just go with more beaters or some more removal. But its a great all rounder which stops alot of cards in the format.
I guess it depends on what sees play in your area, sometimes Path has no drawback (they either don't play basics or very few and have them in play already) and it is sooo much better against Dreadstill and other stiflenought builds, giving them 12 life is pretty harsh and they can often times be put far enough ahead from it that winning becomes very tricky, however giving a fish player 2 life trading for a Lord is pretty awesome...
Well thats true, but i hardly see any Dreadnoughts so i don't worry too much about them, the largest creature i will remove is tombstalker and goyfs basicly
We've got Pridemage to deal with Dreadnoughts.
No, it's just simpler if the deck is called one thing...
Definitely play Swords over Path. Tempo is huge with this deck.
Regardless of if you play Daze or not, Path to Exile speeds your opponent up with an extra land drop and is neutral relative card advantage for your opponent, one card disadvantage for yourself. In any but the fastest of aggro decks, I can't really warrant them getting a land ever being preferable to them gaining life unless you would otherwise just die.
Team Technology - Think it's good? Prove it.
So guys, I have just started testing this deck and this is my list:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Wonder
3 Rhox War Monk
1 Rafiq of the many
1 Akroma (white)
1 Loyal Retainer
1 Squee Goblin Nabob
4 Survival of the fittest
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare (thinking about replacing with something else, its here and there)
4 Swords to plowshares
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
Didnt bother making a sideboard yet since players that i play with likes to switch decks up every week, so I would probably make it last minute. I really liked the mini combo with Akroma so against zoo or goblins there is a quick way out. I havent tried Kira yet how is it? Any suggestions on what I can replace Spellsnare with? I was thinking about dazes but they are crap late game.
You really shouldn't be playing loyal retainers (atleast not in the main), it's just a win more that relies on survival. I was playing it just to be cute and surprise my opponents, not to play the most optimal list. The only way I can see LR being playable is in the sb with Iona or Kuro-
Legendary Creature - Demon Spirit 9/9, 6BBB (9)
At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Kuro, Pitlord unless you pay {B}{B}{B}{B}.
Pay 1 life: Target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.
Survival of the Fittest
Enchantment
, discard a creature card: Do whatever the fuck you want.
:D
Yeah i know alot of things stop loyal retainer in other legacy decks that are mainboard (stifles,trickbind, pithing....) but in an matchup against mono red goblins or zoo (as long as you got a counter) its like an easy win if you have survival. I guess those are good matchups already for us? Anyone use gilded drakes as a one of mainboard for larit mage tokens or dreadnauhgts?
Against mono red/zoo you should be wining with RWM, don't think akroma is gg against zoo, they run STP/PTE. If I were to land an Iona against zoo I'd most likely name white (depending on the game state).
Survival of the Fittest
Enchantment
:D
This is actually quite an interesting issue, which I would love to hear some opinions on. How important is it to play 'I win now' card in Survival deck in general? Many 'surprise techs' such as Retainers + Akroma are discarded as 'just a I win more card, if you have survival in play you should be already winning'.
Still I have read numerous reports where players claim, that they survival stays in play only for a turn or two usually. Personally I have also lost games in which after few turns of stalemate my opponent had time to dig for answers or swarm me with little guys only because the best thing I could dig for was 3/4 Goyf.
I realize that more dead draws can lead to lost games easily. Still the idea of changing survival from 'ok, now I start gaining control' to 'find an answer NOW or you loose' is quite appealing.
I realize, that for a numerous reasons this question should be approached differently for Bant survival, than for blueless builds. Bant survival if the most controllish survival build since ATS. The number of counters limit the risk of loosing game after resolving survival. Wonder also helps a lot as 3/4 flying Goyf is a lot more of a threat than 3/4 hasted Goyf. Especially in combination with Rafiq (though already in this thread someone suggested dropping him as a win more card as well).
Still the question is valid - is it really not worth it to dedicate a certain number of slots (usually two) for some deadly combo? The combo cards more likely than not will be useless without survival. They however allow you to occasionally steal games you should have lost and force your opponent to find an answer within a turn or two, or loose.
If people need help keeping Survival in play, run a Witness and make sure she's one of your first targets. Forcing your opponent to deal with Survival and a Witness or two Survivals is pretty unfair.
Its not the fact that loyal combo is win more. The 2 pieces do almost nothing on their own. Which is something I would not suggest above runnign squee and wonder. Rafiq is a I win now or a turn later card if you got a beater in play and perhaps a wonder in the grave. But as a topdeck he's also quite the gameswinger.
And thnx to the cantrip package this deck can easility find a counter or another survival to start the CA again. And if you serious have trouble run witness indeed.
Also the loyal retainer situation vs gobbo's. Man if goblins gave you the time to land survival and start tutoring. Why doesn't goyf into goyf into monk into monk etc not allready win the game there. I mostly side out survival because its too slow against such aggro decks.
I know you side it out but.....
You would put it in because the goblins have haste, and can steal the game out from underyou before you drop the creatures you searched for with survival.
@ moby dick, well Iona is great but she taps when she attacks against zoo and zoo does have the ability to burn her out 1 lavamancer activation + 2 burns. Granted that takes alot of precious cards from them, but usually they will have the advantage in terms of creatures. With a resolved Akroma only thing they have is the 4 x path to exile, so as long as you have a fow backup for your akroma zoo should be in a tough spot.
RWM is great as well but sometimes i find him hard to cast against goblins with their wastelands and sometimes ports (on older builds) and alot of times i don't find that a RWM wins games against goblins. Like arebennian states goblins can win a game in one turn easily with SGC and chieftans
I am going to play this Saturday and see how I can tweak the deck, it's been handling pretty well against zoo and goblins with the quick win solution from Akroma, I was using 2 Cliques before Akroma+Retainer but thats really only good against control/combo which I don't see too much of so I am thinking of throwing it to S.B
If I were to ever run Loyal Retainers, Iona would be my target. It's actually good in this format. If they are wasting that much burn on your one creature, you win. Also, Sprite and Force can basically make it impossible for them to resolve 2+ burn spells on it.
And getting Survival down, and then fetching Akroma, and then getting Retainers and playing it is easier? That's like 1GGG2W. Good luck.RWM is great as well but sometimes i find him hard to cast against goblins with their wastelands and sometimes ports (on older builds) and alot of times i don't find that a RWM wins games against goblins. Like arebennian states goblins can win a game in one turn easily with SGC and chieftans
I still fail to see how a 4 turn clock coming down on turn 4 is fast.I am going to play this Saturday and see how I can tweak the deck, it's been handling pretty well against zoo and goblins with the quick win solution from Akroma, I was using 2 Cliques before Akroma+Retainer but thats really only good against control/combo which I don't see too much of so I am thinking of throwing it to S.B
I Do not think I understand what your saying. Anyways my point is you should be dead before even getting survival active properly. Better to run more spotremoval en beatsticks imo.
Oh come on. English is only your second language! Shame on you for not being able to decipher my statement!
I get your point and I agree (as I already noted). Still, for the sake of it.....
EXAMPLE
Goblins have 3 cards in hand with 4 mana in play.
You have Survival in play.
Empty 'Battlefield'
YOUR TURN
You are on 6 life. You untap, search for a Monk and play it. GGWU spent.
GOBLINS
Untap, Warchief, Driver, Driver.
Their haste doesn't give you as much time to search for answers. You only get 1 turn to put down prospective blockers, not two.
Granted that is a senario that is highly in the Goblins favour but you get the idea.
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