Hey guys. I think this is my first ever post, but I always come here and read when I have a legacy tournament, you always seem to know whats up. Anyways, I am on the US national team, and am playing legacy for the team portion. I love it so I jumped on the chance to play it here. Basically, I am settled on Supreme Blue/cbalance top or whatever the name du jour is. I've come here to ask you guys what the best sideboard options are. Are there any real good options against 43 land? What is the best package against dredge? Are there any cards I should certainly play, or not play? is ajani vengeant ant good?
MY maindeck is identicaly to kazuhos from the japan legacy tournament, can you suggest any changes?
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=27996
Is it worth playing any basics? The new fetches open up options but I wanted to get your thoughts. is 4 war monk the right number?i is trygon necessary, or would something like espeth be better?
Ive played a lot of counterbalance top in legacy and tested this some, but Im no expert and there are tons of options, so basically if anyone has any thoughts/lists etc just let me know.
your country needs you! =D
thanks in advance to everyone.
I can strongly suggest Wing Shards. Run it next to Firespout. It's awesome. Good luck!
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Seconded.Originally Posted by Skeggi
Yes, play 2 Island and 1 Forest, with 4 Misty Rainforest.
Wing Shards is bad.
Last edited by gamegeek2; 11-18-2009 at 03:46 PM.
Nope, that's my current list. And yes, I like Trygon better than Coatl and the fourth Daze.
I don't see the point of running a singleton Lorescale Coatl. He's crappy late, and with only one, you're not likely to draw him early.
Daze is a very weak card after the first couple of turns, and I often found myself siding them out on the draw. I haven't missed the fourth Daze since I went down to three.
Trygon Predator helps assure you have a green creature for Natural Order, while giving you six 3-CC cards for maximum Counterbalancing. It also gets around opposing Counterbalances, and is a total house against Dreadstill, CounterTop, Armageddon Stax, Chalice Aggro, Enchantress, and anything running Standstill.
I've gone back and forth on whether to run Predator or Qasali Pridemage, but right now I'm leaning towards Predator for its ability to generate card advantage while flying over ground stalemates.
I've found basic Plains to be weak in this kind of deck. You only run eight white cards, and none of them cost more than one white mana. You can also get white mana from Noble Hierarch off a basic Forest.
That's also the same sideboard I ran at Legacy Champs. Here's how I'd sideboard with it using my old list with your changes:
CounterTop: -1 Rhox War Monk, -1 Daze, -1 Lorescale Coatl, +2 Trygon Predator, +1 Krosan Grip.
Zoo: -1 Lorescale Coatl, -4 Daze, +2 Engineered Explosives, +2 Hydroblast, +1 Blue Elemental Blast
ANT: -4 Swords to Plowshares, +3 Krosan Grip, +1 Trygon Predator
ANT w/Red and Empty the Warrens: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Lorescale Coatl, -1 Land, +2 Hydroblast, +2 Blue Elemental Blast, +2 Engineered Explosives
Belcher: -4 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Hydroblast, +2 Blue Elemental Blast, -1 Lorescale Coatl, -1 Land, +2 Engineered Explosives
Tempo Thresh: -1 Lorescale Coatl, -1 Daze, +2 Relic of Progenitus. On the draw, +2 Engineered Explosives, -2 Daze as well.
Goblins: +2 Blue Elemental Blast, +2 Hydroblast, -4 Counterbalance
Merfolk: +2 Engineered Explosives, -2 Counterbalance
Ichorid: -4 Counterbalance, +2 Tormod's Crypt, +2 Relic of Progenitus
Landstill: This really depends on the list. - Some number of Lorescale Coatl, Daze, Counterbalance, Swords to Plowshares, Rhox War Monk, + Some number of Engineered Explosives, Trygon Predator, Relic of Progenitus, Krosan Grip.
My current list and my current sideboarding:
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Rhox War Monk
2 Trygon Predator
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
SB:
1 Trygon Predator
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Propaganda
2 Ghostly Prison
4 Spell Pierce
3 Engineered Explosives
---------------------------
CounterTop: -1 Daze, +1 Trygon Predator
Zoo: -3 Daze, +3 Engineered Explosives
ANT: -4 Swords to Plowshares, +4 Spell Pierce
ANT w/Red and Empty the Warrens: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -2 Trygon Predator, +4 Spell Pierce, +2 Engineered Explosives
Belcher: -4 Swords to Plowshares, -2 Trygon Predator, -1 Forest, +4 Spell Pierce, +3 Engineered Explosives
Tempo Thresh: -2 Trygon Predator, -3 Daze, +3 Engineered Explosives, +2 Relic of Progenitus
Goblins: -4 Counterbalance +2 Ghostly Prison, +2 Propaganda
Merfolk: -2 Counterbalance, -1 Daze, +3 Engineereed Explosives
Ichorid: -4 Counterbalance, -2 Trygon Predator, -1 Sensei's Divining Top, -3 Swords to Plowshares, +2 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Tormod's Crypt, +3 Engineered Explosives, +2 Propaganda, +2 Ghostly Prison
Landstill: This really depends on the list. - Some number of Counterbalance, Daze, Swords to Plowshares, Rhox War Monk, + Some number of Spell Pierce, Engineereed Explosives, Trygon Predator, Relic of Progenitus.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
I'm going to be both nice and polite when I tell you this, (rare for an internet forum yes I know). You need to read the thread or at least the last 10-15 pages and take you what you think will be best for the metagame. You can just blindly play a list but this is the kind of deck that has undergone a lot of metagame adaptation in about 12 flex slots
Does anyone have any tips on playing against landstill with this deck using the UGW or BUG builds? Last tourny i just couldn't beat those and I'm still upset about it.
You need better cards and a game plan against them, some people are trying to go with the aggro way, adding Gaddock teeg to their team to slow them. I won only 1 match due to this strategy against Landstill, so it's not the one I prefer. To fight control more effectivly, I added 2 cards at 4cc MD that are very strong against them: Elspeths. They play a double role of countering their big threats with CB, and when landed, it's a pain for them. After SB, my strategy is to name E.E. with Pithing Needle and install CB with 3 and 4 on top. (I have 4 4cc spells post-board)
P-M
I think we have decided that wingshards is bad. A 3cc conditional removal spell that can maybe once per tournament net you some card advantage is not what this deck needs.
As far as the Legacy portion of Worlds, last year the metagame was very diverse. A sideboard should be tuned to have answers to most of the decks in the format, which is true of any sideboard in legacy. CB is good vs 43 lands by itslef just be able to deal with their lands early and assemble CB TOP and float a 2cc and they should not be able to win. Dredge depends on the list they are running but some number of crypts/ relics should be enough to slow them down enough.
I'm Dutch
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Meanie.I'm Dutch
So, has anyone tested Knight of the Reliquary lately. It was in zoo for a while but thoctar seems to be preferred. Given that this deck already has a slower gameplan, it looks like it could be goyf's 5&6. Especially since, there is so much mana disruption still floating around.
I'm pretty sure you never want to play Knight of the Reliquary as an answer to mana disruption. There are two major decks in the metagame that use mana denial as strong component of their strategy: Canadian Thresh and Merfolk.
Canadian Thresh is going to be able to keep you off of Knight mana for at least a turn past when you want to cast it, either by Stifling your fetchland or Wasting your dual land. When you eventually cast Knight, it's going to be insanely vulnerable to Daze. And even if you do resolve it, you have a 5/5. Sweet. Why not just play Mystic Enforcer? That guy FLIES.
Merfolk is going to let you resolve Knight a lot easier, but he's just a random guy who will be a 3/3 or 4/4 that they will quite possibly just Islandwalk past. If they get the Wasteland/Aether Vial draw, I genuinely do not understand how Knight is going to be doing much of anything in that game.
Effective ways to answer mana denial include playing more lands, playing Spell Pierce, or playing something else that positively impacts your mana stability on a more tactically achievable and immediate basis.
Played +2 Reliquary -2Trygons(went to SB) in my SupremeBlue list and i get some conclusions:
1-If usually does not pitch to FoW when you need.
2-90% of plays I want to play Goyf or RWM or CB or Firespout and leave Reliquary to be suffled in my library or sleeping in my hand.
3-If you drop it 3/3 it is just horrible, so it is horrible if it is your only early game threat or blocker.
4-The good point is that for turn 7+ it is just a big as goyf and can provide free cantrips to helps Top and CB.It also grows very fast if you sac a dual search for fetch and then fetch a dual.
I think that if we need a new Threat it could be elspeth(because enforcer isn't 6/6 when you really need.)
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
Paulo Vitor Damo da Rosa (big name Brazilian player) is playing Supreme Blue, Brazil's doing quite well.
If you're looking for versatile cards that serve as efficient threats, Elspeth and Vendilion Clique are your best bets, and serve good purposes against both Aggro and Control.
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Path to Exile
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
3 Island
3 Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
SB
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Krosan Grip
3 Spell Pierce
2 Pithing Needle
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Ravenous Trap
So I have no idea if this deck works. It is completely untested.
That said, it seems like an interesting to to play. It has Thirst, which is busted, along with Counterbalance and Top to protect the combo. It runs 8 Swords and 2 EE to defend itself in this land of Zoo.
Anyone wanna try it out?
Are you PV?
:P
I bet it's Yurchick, since he's the only one on the team at 22 yrs old : )
@lorddotm - I think your list could totally get away with running Vedalken Shackles to abuse Tutor as a way to cheat the top card.
0 - EE
1 - Top
2 - Sword/Foundry
3 - Shackles
Just an idea.
The combo is tough to disrupt, but does it have enough 'oomph'? Turn 2, you get one piece out. Turn 3, you play the other and possibly make one token. Turn 4, you make up to 4 tokens. If it's something you aren't racing for, could you reduce it and add in extra counters like Daze, Spell Pierce, or Spell Snare?
Countertop is dead! Didn't you hear about it?
Please stop playing it!
Signed, ANT player.
I've tested a couple times with Zoo against the Thopter combo + CB-TOP and it just didn't feel like a good combo.
Qasali just wrecks it, and if you counter him you're just getting eaten by Goyfs.
Sure once you land it unanswered it's GG, there's no comeback from untapping with the combo in play. But game 2 the Krosan Grips come in and everything just starts to look dreadfully bad. Even if you land an early combo, a Grip buys a lot of time for the Zoo player to bash your face with green dudes.
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