[Deck] Armageddon Stax

[SpencerForHire]

Why would you board in Rule of Law vs Goblins?

I apologize, I meant Sphere of Law. I got the two cards mixed up.

Merfolk can be hard sometimes if you don't draw enough of the correct lock pieces and they counter those. You could have the mana all locked up but fail to land enough creature control to stop from being overrun.

You really can't be overrun if you have Ghostly Prison/Tabernacle out. Just put out these pieces and resolve an Armageddon, you are pretty much solid at that point. Before someone says how do you resolve Geddon against Merfolk, my response would be: stick them under a chalice.

[Steveman]

I'm assuming Rule of Law in the sideboard isn't directed towards goblins, but more towards burn, but it just so happens to be pretty good against Goblins too?

[SpencerForHire]

Sphere of Law, and yes it is for Burn but makes an excellent addition against Goblins.

[Nizmox]

I've seen a few people talk about drawing cards in stax (i.e. thirst of knowledge). I think if you really want to include 'draw' run bottled cloister. It protects you from discard, it's a draw every turn and it's 4cc so plays nicely with 3sphere.
EDIT: Though I don't recommend running any draw in stax (beyond horizon canopy if you want it).

On another note, i've found that baneslayers are just awesome in this deck. They have won me many a game, most of which i would have lost without them, having only a semi-lock. Often dropping a chalice at 1 then an early baneslayer is GG. (I currently run 3 MD).

I have 4 Runed Halo in the board, but am considering swapping out my maindeck prison's for them. In quite a few matchups I find myself siding out prisons and replacing it with Runed halo. Even naming Goyf has been a very good play.

[FieryBalrog]

Yea, Baneslayer gives the deck a "Plan B" which is less reliant on a overly dominant board position, letting you sometimes mise wins from inferior board positions.

[Dark Ritual]

Yeah bottled cloister seems like the best card draw stax has apart from horizon canopy. And sphere of law is against burn; not that we can't win that MU with just chalices on 1-3 cmc but the 3cmc cards burn runs hurt us since we can't chalice at 3 without hurting ourselves. Sphere of law is our best card against burn since warmth is cmc 2 which we usually put chalice at because we need it. And COP: Red is the same case as warmth.

Baneslayer is amazing; no reason to run exalted angel over baneslayer unless you don't own them of course and don't want to dish out $50 for 1.

[ryO!]

what do you think of those two list, not sure the one i ll play. (main thing is i dont wanna spend 4x$ on BA for smth that worth MAX half of it. it s only about principle not money wise.

anyway :


//MD
[x4] Chalice Of The Void
[x4] Crucible Of Worlds
[x4] Mox Diamond
[x4] Smokestack
[x3] Trinisphere
[x2] Baneslayer Angel
[x3] Magus Of The Tabernacle
[x4] Ghostly Prison
[x3] Oblivion Ring
[x3] Armageddon
[x1] Ravages of War
[x4] Plains
[x4] Ancient Tomb
[x4] City Of Traitors
[x4] Wasteland
[x1] Horizon Canopy
[x3] Flagstones Of Trokair
[x4] Mishra's Factory
[x1] Kor Haven
//SB
[x3] Tormod's Crypt
[x1] Trinisphere
[x2] Sphere Of Law
[x3] Suppression Field
[x2] Circle of protection Red
[x3] Choke
[x1] Savannah

Or


//MD
[x4] Chalice Of The Void
[x4] Crucible Of Worlds
[x4] Mox Diamond
[x4] Smokestack
[x3] Trinisphere
[x2] KoTR
[x3] Magus Of The Tabernacle
[x4] Ghostly Prison
[x3] Oblivion Ring
[x3] Armageddon
[x1] Ravages of War
[x5] Plains
[x4] Ancient Tomb
[x4] City Of Traitors
[x4] Wasteland
[x1] Horizon Canopy
[x3] Flagstones Of Trokair
[x2] Mishra's Factory
[x1] Kor Haven
[x1] Savannah
[x1] Nomad Stadium

//SB
[x2] Tormod's Crypt
[x1] Trinisphere
[x2] Sphere Of Law
[x3] Suppression Field
[x3] Krosan Grip
[x3] Choke
[x1] The Tabernacle At Pendrell Valle

60 and 61 (dunno what to cut :s)
also i d really want to add 2 elspeth SB but then again dunno what to remove

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[FieryBalrog]

I've seen a few people talk about drawing cards in stax (i.e. thirst of knowledge). I think if you really want to include 'draw' run bottled cloister. It protects you from discard, it's a draw every turn and it's 4cc so plays nicely with 3sphere.
EDIT: Though I don't recommend running any draw in stax (beyond horizon canopy if you want it).

Bottled Cloister is a somewhat OK option, but if I ran it it would pull me towards Ensnaring Bridge, and I feel that White Stax has better options. Otherwise Bottled Cloister is a really slow permanent that would have to replace a more critical lock piece.

[ryO!]

Bottled Cloister is a somewhat OK option, but if I ran it it would pull me towards Ensnaring Bridge, and I feel that White Stax has better options. Otherwise Bottled Cloister is a really slow permanent that would have to replace a more critical lock piece.

Bottled Cloister is aweful, once it get destroyed u simply lose your full hand and with all the artifact hate existing i think it ain't worth the risk.

[FieryBalrog]

Bottled Cloister is aweful, once it get destroyed u simply lose your full hand and with all the artifact hate existing i think it ain't worth the risk.

That actually isn't a really big deal in Stax because by the time you play Bottled Cloister you should have already played out much of your hand and be playing out your hand each turn anyway. Whats left in your hand will mostly be extra lands and redundant pieces you don't have mana to play.

[ryO!]

That actually isn't a really big deal in Stax because by the time you play Bottled Cloister you should have already played out much of your hand and be playing out your hand each turn anyway. Whats left in your hand will mostly be extra lands and redundant pieces you don't have mana to play.

Then i d prefer canopy + KoTR as late lock/help as it can :
*fetch land help/lock (tabernacle, Kor, stadium, waste)
*block
*kill
i d also want to know what u d remove to give BoC a slot.

[FieryBalrog]

Then i d prefer canopy + KoTR as late lock/help as it can :
*fetch land help/lock (tabernacle, Kor, stadium, waste)
*block
*kill
i d also want to know what u d remove to give BoC a slot.

I wouldn't really in White Stax, see above. I was just saying that the drawback isn't really that bad and on top of that they most likely have better targets to hit. Its really more just the fact that you would have to cut lock pieces for it and its slow and doesn't do much else. It might deserve a 1 of or 2 of slot, maybe. Canopy is great because its a land slot, it supports Choke and works with a piece you already want to play when the time is right, aka Crucible.

I do run it in any blue and black Stax decks I build, because the options for creature control there all pale beside ensnaring bridge + cloister.

[ryO!]

I wouldn't really in White Stax, see above. I was just saying that the drawback isn't really that bad and on top of that they most likely have better targets to hit. Its really more just the fact that you would have to cut lock pieces for it and its slow and doesn't do much else. It might deserve a 1 of or 2 of slot, maybe. Canopy is great because its a land slot, it supports Choke and works with a piece you already want to play when the time is right, aka Crucible.

I do run it in any blue and black Stax decks I build, because the options for creature control there all pale beside ensnaring bridge + cloister.

propaganda?

[Noman Peopled]

I don't know about your metagames, but Bottled Cloister is awful anywhere where people have enough reason to run Serenity or even Hurkyl's and company out of the board.
More common problems for the Cloister are Deed and EE. They sweep your board then rape your hand via the inevitably sideboarded Grip (or maindecked Pridemage). In the case of Deed, if they can muster seven mana over two turns, you have lost your board position and your hand to one card.

There are situations in which it's a good thing to have cards in your hand.
Against a Deed/EE on the board, I'll try to force them to tap out and snatch it with O-Ring; barring that, forcing them to break it and still have enough stuff in hand to refuel is the only viable course (unless I stuck a Needle in play first or got stack down fast enough). Cloister helps if it remains active, and kills you if it doesn't.

Last but not least, we all know how inconsistent Stax can be. A hand can give you four mana and three lock pieces (which don't always work well together in the current matchup) and be keepable; but replace one of them with Cloister and you have a crapshoot - especially against decks that go Seize or FoW/Daze the first turn, the most dangerous piece may not resolve, the second one may or may not be as crippling as one would like, and Bottled Cloister is much less of a threat when they've gotten 2-3 turns with freely usable mana out, especially with Pridemage being so popular.
Plus, Cloister is sooo slow. If it draws you tow lock pieces and another land over the course of three turns, you are up one lock piece, total. Meanwhile, you robbed yourself of the chance to land another lock piece at least a turn earlier, which may or may not have made Cloister surplus to requirements. I'd much rather have another disruptive ca piece like Ravages (if I wanted to afford them).

With Stax's mana base, there's only so many non-lock slots you can put in, especially since our lock pieces' efficiency varies wildly from matchup to matchup.
This, I think, is the biggest difficulty in finding a decent draw engine for Stax. It compomises our game plan much more than lategame inclusions do in other decks because of our limited amount of actual business spells.



I kind of like Canopy/KotR/Crucible. Because you're playing the latter two anyway (assuming you have Tabernacle and want to go green) and Canopy makes mana.

[jazzykat]

EE =4, really I'm not really sure that happens too often since you have Armageddon+Wasteland/Crucible

Deed is a problem but I don't think it is so widely played anymore. The trick with deed is that they lose any board position they had as well, although they do get to sandbag and keep their hand.

The only thing I am afraid of is bottled cloister getting nuked when I have a grip full of cards. This scenario should not be so common since as a stax deck we should drop all our disruption/lockpieces first without worrying about drawing cards until we run out.

[FieryBalrog]

propaganda?

Propaganda is much worse without Armageddon and Magus. Like, pretty much worthless except against something like Dredge or maybe Goblins. Anything with Goyf just doesn't care.

With Stax's mana base, there's only so many non-lock slots you can put in, especially since our lock pieces' efficiency varies wildly from matchup to matchup.
This, I think, is the biggest difficulty in finding a decent draw engine for Stax. It compomises our game plan much more than lategame inclusions do in other decks because of our limited amount of actual business spells.

I kind of like Canopy/KotR/Crucible. Because you're playing the latter two anyway (assuming you have Tabernacle and want to go green) and Canopy makes mana.

I think this is a much more relevant reason why not to run Cloister (which I mentioned) than the Deed/Serenity problem (who runs EE for 4? you shouldn't let them get there anyway). Because you have tools to fight those, and on top of that, the card draw each turn is probably worth more than the few situations you face Deed.

Cloister is slow (playing it early is much riskier and you want lock pieces) and isn't a lock piece.

[SMR0079]

I have found the Zoo matchup to be difficult and put th edeck down for a while.

What has everyone found to be a good sideboard plan?

I've been thinking of boarding 2 additional Baneslayers...stupid $40 rares

[mercs]

I have found the Zoo matchup to be difficult and put th edeck down for a while.

What has everyone found to be a good sideboard plan?

I've been thinking of boarding 2 additional Baneslayers...stupid $40 rares

Hey, I've found that the biggest weakness in Zoo is that they have weak recovery. Even though they can be more aggressive than goblins, they have very few draw engines outside of sylvan library, so Wrath of God does great against Zoo if you get them to overcommit.

Also, baneslayer is expensive, but I've used many other Life gain creatures like Gerrard Capeshan. surprisingly, he works well. A little ghetto, but 50 cent card vs. $40 card is always nice.

If the zoo is emptying out his hand too much before you can drop some life gain, you might wanna play some ensnaring bridges or pulse of fields.

Finally, if push comes to shove and Zoo's outracing that, you might wanna throw in extra creature destruction such as day of judgement in addition to wraths.

This is a little much, but if Zoo is getting too big in your meta, it might be a good investment.

[SMR0079]

Unlike Goblins, Zoo just needs to slip a couple creatures in to get you into burn range. Granted we can chalice lock them, but Pridemage is such a beating if he resolves first.

Baneslayer x4 with a couple of Moats is what I'm currently thinking for games 2/3.

[Curby]

stick them under a chalice.

Trinisphere? Chalice stops Daze or Spell Pierce but not FoW.

Baneslayer is amazing; no reason to run exalted angel over baneslayer unless you don't own them of course and don't want to dish out $50 for 1.

My question is: is Exalted still the second best option to Baneslayer? Emeria Angel got a little attention but the ass of 3 is a problem.