[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Citrus-God]

Anyways, Most players in my meta generally don't over-commit. And with stifles, wastelands, and dazes I can only usually cast and use my mass removal turns 6-7 anyways. Don't kid yourself by acting superior in any way, i'm just stating facts and perspectives.

Then you haven't played against those cards enough. Tempo Thresh is fucking easy as hell to beat the living piss out of pre-board. If you want to get into post board bull shit, those cards still don't hurt you. REB is what puts you down. And if you want to get into a discussion about Merfolk running those cards, it's still fucking easier to deal with Merfolk. Only difference is that you don't have to deal with REB post board, and that is why your match up against Merfolk should still be good.

Don't kid yourself by trying to defend this. I'm just stating objective perspectives.

[Jiaozy]

f you want to get into post board bull shit

I feel that discussing post board games is extremely important, because those are the most relevant in tourneys, since they're 2 out of 3, while pre-board you only have a single game.

If the "Post board bull shit" wasn't important, then Dredge would be the de-facto best deck in the format because it has awesome game ones against pretty much the whole field with few exceptions.

Instead it's a tier 2 deck because in 2 out of 3 games you have heaploads of ways of stopping their game plan and they don't have a reliable Plan B...

[Reagens]

I played a tournament this weekend splitting the final. 18 people attended. 5 rounds, no top-8.
Since the last big tournament in my region was dominated by ANT a lot of people picked up the deck. I myself have been testing against it and thus settled on the following list:

4 swords to plowshares
3 wrath of god
3 decree of justice
2 elspeth
1 eternal dragon
3 vindicate
3 engineered explosives
2 spellsnare
3 counterspell
4 force of will
3 brainstorm
3 standstill
3 fact or fiction

3 flooded strand
1 polluted delta
2 marsh flats
2 island
2 plains
1 swamp
4 tundra
1 underground sea
1 scrubland
3 mishra's factory
3 wasteland

SB
2 preacher
2 path to exile
2 engineered plague
2 relic of progenitus
3 ethersworn cannonist
2 meddling mage
1 runed halo
1 ajani gold-mane

The report:
Round 1: Teammate with ANT
Game 1: I have a reasonable hand but I need to draw some extra counters. The game carries on and I have only protection from a spell snare (which he knows) and an explosives set at 0. I still manage to beat him though since he doesn’t get the right cards.
Game 2: I see my hate pieces quite soon and win quite easily
Round 2: Teammate (I know but we were with ten people from our team) with Zoo
I don’t like this match-up at all. In testing several months ago I got beaten quite easily by this deck and so I don’t look forward to the match. Since those months the version has evolved from burn oriented (with fireblast, magma jet and price of progress) to creature oriented.
Game 1: Although he has an active sylvan library from turn 2 on and I never manage to destroy it I can keep him light on mana and eventually seal the game in my favor. I make a huge playmistake when I let my Elspeth die to Goyf + burn (I could have brainstormed for stp and avoided it all together). I remember having a perfectly logical reason(something involving drawing out his burn spells) but I think the logic was very flawed.
Game 2: I see double path to exile and an explosives in my 7 so I keep… He plays 2 creatures at 1 mana and I explosive those away. I can keep his creatures away and turn 4 I can play a Ajani-gold mane, followed by Elspeth next turn…
Round 3: Teammate with BGW pikula something.
Game 1: He has a start filled with disruption. After a few turns I don’t have any cards left, but he doesn’t have any pressure. I topdeck standstill, which he has to break and resolve a fof thereafter. He is a little manascrewed and I easily win from there.
Game 2: Turn 1 disruption again and a second turn wasteland. I am fearing for a manascrew myself but eventually I can attack his mana base again with double wasteland and my opponent is never really in the game.

Round 4 Teammate playing ANT:
Game 1: I have no force in my opening grip but I do have brainstorm and standstil. I decide to play (since I don’t expect him to go off without protection). I never see the very important force (or anything else besides spell snare) and lose after a few turns. I manage to attack the manabase a little but it is all for nought.
Game 2: I mulligan to 6 and I see explosives, meddling mage, dragon, swamp, wasteland and a blank (not a counter). I decide to keep on the merits of explosives set at 0 and wasteland. I play swamp and explosives at 0 (first playmistake since I wasn’t able to activate it anyway). He goes swamp -> go (there goes the wasteland plan). I draw and play tundra, passing the turn. He plays a fetchland and he is considering his options. Apparently he has everything in hand except for protection. He decides that because I played a swamp I am holding on to a force of will and passes. Next turn I draw another land and get play meddling mage naming ad nauseam. From that point on I slowly get control of the game and win.
Game 3: I draw a hand packing Fow, FoF, meddling mage and ethersworn canonist. Turn 2 canonnist (I need to use Fow to protect him from slaughter pact), turn 3 waste his dual meddling mage on tendrils. I follow up with a vindicate on one of his lands shortly thereafter.

Round 5 teammate with pikula/rock something: split. We decide to sell the box to the tournament organizer of our team.

In conclusion:
Cannonist is HUGE. It is so much better then meddling mage against combo because it disrupts the whole combo and not just one part. Meddling mage set at ad nauseam or tendrils of agony does nothing to stop them from resolving a silence/chant and proceeding to bounce or play around your mage. The color requirements are easier as well (although a minor issue).
Runed halo won’t be included again. Being an enchantment it is too vulnerable to hate.
Relic of progenitus was useless as well. I will probably swap it for extirpate which has its uses against combo as well.
The main deck was rock solid and I am very happy with my third explosives which came in the place of a 4th brainstorm.
Any comments are welcome of course

[arebennian]

Nice stab.

Anyways, Most players in my meta generally don't over-commit. And with stifles, wastelands, and dazes I can only usually cast and use my mass removal turns 6-7 anyways. Don't kid yourself by acting superior in any way, i'm just stating facts and perspectives.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...&postcount=748
Quote from above thread:

Keep in mind, my metagame runs little to no mana-denial, and therefore I can afford to get a little greedy.

Which is it then T.Freak.A, either your meta seems to play ALOT of mana denial, or it doesn't play any at all.
Which is it? Or do you play with two different groups? Or are you playing these cards in an effort to disrupt your opponent and reach the lategame?

[thefreakaccident]

My 'local' is a self-organized tournament that has between 8-16 ppl. Always has Thrash and Mer (usually 2 Thrash, 1-2 mer)

I also play in a completely different meta up in LA every month. (Have only Merfolk and Gobbos LD wise)

[Citrus-God]

If the "Post board bull shit" wasn't important.

I don't think you read my post at all. Nowhere in there did I say post board games were irrelevant.

[mossivo1986]

I don't think you read my post at all. Nowhere in there did I say post board games were irrelevant.

I thought the same thing but I wanted to see you say it.

While I do agree on some of the things you said. I really feel like your wrong about Canadian thresh. It's unfavorable for them, but the addition of spell pierce changes the pace of the game up a bit as well as the fact that you still worry about mongoose. Nothing changes the fact that mongoose is the absolute problem card in the match-up.

post board we add more paths and relics, but that doesnt change the fact that were still getting gripped and were still getting hammered by the goose bomb.

p.s. I really want to write the new primer.:)

[mossivo1986]

hehe p.s.s. - small tourney report.

Went to fortress comics and games the other day. Steller performance. 1-2-1. I got boned twice with downpairings yet again. I have never been paired up or normal while playing there. Its absolutely astonishing. It smells and the prize support is terrible. Oh yeah and it has the most random meta i've ever played. To give you an idea it was a dredge on dredge finals.....

I decided to play cow in the 3rd cb slot, which ended up being a mistake as I played against burn round 4. . . . I apparently decided to play like a shitty player as well and not mull into wish g1. how amazing of me..... against ichorid I named horror with e.p. like i was supposed to. and the second one I slammed the following turn and like a duphous named horror again.... Yeah take that ichorid. ....

So I played like crap, I think its the smell of the place.... Never going back there again.... ever.

[Tinefol]

Played the local tourney on Sunday, 25 people.

Round 1. Enchantress
G1: I didn't know what's he's playing, so I keep a good anti-aggro hand, with snare, wrath, some card draw. Turns out he's playing Enchantress, and a few turns later I'm facing 2x Presence, and a ass load of other permanents, including City of Soltitude. I draw a couple of cards, but no Explosives, and I scoop to Words of War quickly.
G2: I mull, keep a sucky hand with FoW, but no blue mana and just hope to beat him with my factory before he goes nuts. I FoW his Enchantress effect, apparently he had only one, draw into blue mana, drop Ajani, Snare another Enchantress, drop Meddling Mage on Presense, O-Ring away Moat and just beat in.
G3: He's never into the game, as I counter/remove everything, beating with Elspeth.

Round2. RGBWSA
G1: I manage to keep off his early agression, drop Humility, Elspeth and win.
G2: He's flooded, I snare his Survival, Counterspell his Witness, and just get there with trio of Planeswalkers.

Round3. Natural Order Survival
G1: He gets in a few beats with Tarmo, I counter Order, which he Witnesses back, he gets to Order again, but I Wrath the Progenitus away and win with Elspeth.
G2: I counter primal Order (!), snare Survival, drop Humility, which gets gripped, then find another and just kill/counter his every threat

Round 4 & 5. id

Top8. My opponent doesnt come.
Top4. Tempo thresh.
G1: Lone mongoose just gets there, I don't happen to draw into EE, Wrath, Elspeth, or enough factories, even though I digged through 25-30 cards.
G2: No mongoose there, Tarmogoyfs die to swords and Elspeth seals the deal.
G3: I manage to fend off the early assault, stabilising at 8 hit points, but he drops Needle on EE, and then on Elspeth. I manage to bring him to 2 with factories before he's forced to burn them out. I die some agonizing 15-20 turns later to double bolt (the last burn he had in library) and 1/1 mongoose (where he won counter-war on Wrath), not able to draw into O-Ring, Ajani, or another Factory. Bummer. Double needle sucks. And Spell Pierces are very annoying.

[Genericcactus]

Have you guys seen the spoilers for the new Jace? It's pretty absurd.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=206164

Projections:

+2: Scry 1
?: Brainstorm
?: Unsummon
?: Exile the top half of target player's library. That player then shuffles his hand into his library.

[Shawn]

I don't see this card being played in landstill. The first and the last abilities are terrible and the third one is only good against mid-range decks with few threats, which are already ok to favorable matchups.

EDIT- Misread the last ability, I didn't notice the Mind Twist part. It might be ok, depending on the cost of the ultimate.

[Ectoplasm]

If the impulse (since you can put cards on the bottom too) costs -1 I'm gonna kick both my fofs and my old jace out of my deck and play two of these guys, plus something cool in the 3rd slot.

[RogueMTG]

Seems like it has potential in the control mirror, but its probably not main deck material.

[Ectoplasm]

Seems like it has potential in the control mirror, but its probably not main deck material.

Why not? Old jace reads: Spend two turns drawing an extra card and one turn doing absolutely nothing. New Jace could read (if the ability is -1): Spend two turns going through your deck and drawing an extra card, and one turn doing a bit more than absolutely nothing.

Sounds good to me :)

[RogueMTG]

Why not? Old jace reads: Spend two turns drawing an extra card and one turn doing absolutely nothing. New Jace could read (if the ability is -1): Spend two turns going through your deck and drawing an extra card, and one turn doing a bit more than absolutely nothing.

Sounds good to me :)

Just seems that at sorcery speed for 4 mana I'd rather be slamming down Elspeth or Humility and start winning. Old Jace didn't make the cut for me either. Keeping mana open is never a bad thing, I'd rather pay one U to brainstorm EOT than 2UU to brainstorm on my turn and let my opponent resolve something.

Obviously reusable card draw/filter is powerful (see: Top). But I just don't see it replacing FoF for me.

[rsaunder]

FOF being instant speed makes it a stronger choice than this because of no protection imo. This looks like a strictly win-more option in all of the matchups that matter, since he's only good against a clear field.

EDIT: It makes a big difference how much unsummon costs. Because that's kinda protection...

[whiteshepherdman]

Aren't you guys sort of overhyping this card? I don't think its actually as amazing as everyone says. After all its like playing cryptic command. Landstill wouldn't need this since we already have so many swords and other removal effects that bounce wouldn't be relevant. There's elspeth too who makes blockers that later become win conditions vs. the bounce that won't help you win. I'd rather play just plain old brainstorm than a 4 mana brainstorm really. The good old brainstorm lets me keep 2 land hands in the hopes that after my 2nd land drop i could brainstorm to find more lands. 4 mana brainstorm isn't optimal. Opt may be useful to some extent but i don't think it's worth opening up a slot for. Maybe in walkerstill the new jace would be great. Infinite brainstorms if its a +x ability would be too good i think. We shall see..

[Elf_Ascetic]

Well, most of us have been playing the old Jace for a while now. A Jace that can diliver Brainstorms instead of Draw-a-card in two out of three turns, and can protect itself for just 1 mana more is worth investigating.

[Ectoplasm]

Also don't forget he's got a multitude of abilities, his dream cache just being one of many. Having options (aka swiss army knives) is a good thing, even if you're going to spend most of his loyalty going through your deck.
There's gonna be times you'll be happy you can screw around with your opponent's library or bounce his tombstalkers/noughts, simply for resolving a jace.

[arebennian]

JACE

+2: Look at the top card of target player's library. You may put that card on the bottom of that player's library.
0: Draw three cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library.
-1: Return target Creature to it's owner's hand.
-12: Exile all cards from target player's library. That player shuffles his or her hand into his or her library.

LOYALTY = 3



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