[DTB] Team America (Aggro/Tempo Thread)

[Benie Bederios]

At leat Sinkhole helps a matchups(Zoo) where it keeps cats and apes small and form a lock with Stifle and Wasteland, where the opponent only got a 1/1 critter. Spell Pierce helps Control( good winnable) Combo( can't be lost). If you want to replace Sinkhole with something it would probably be creature removal like Smother or Pulse. But than your mana-disruption is just as good as Tempo Thresh and you will give up your control matchup. In fact at that moment it's probably better to play Tempo Thresh.

- Benie

[Kanabo]

What do you guys think about this list?

4 tarmogoyf
4 tombstalker

4 force of will
4 daze
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
4 stifle
4 snuff out
4 thoughtseize
4 maelstrom pulse

4 wasteland
4 tropical island
4 underground sea
4 misty rainforest
4 polutted Delta

SB
3 pernicious deed
3 blue elemental blast
3 krosan grip
3 pithing needle
3 tormods crypt

[Illissius]

I don't think spells which cost more than the things they're trading with are a great idea in this deck.

[GtF]

Cutting the bayou doesn't make sense. Even without sinkhole, you've still got tombstalker which costs BB, that's why you ran it. I also prefer 9 fetchlands to feed tombstalker/make brainstorm better and haven't had any issues running that many. Maelstrom pulse is definitely doing something different than sinkhole or spell pierce and it doesn't really seem like something you want/need 4 of if you're also running 4 snuff out.

[Kanabo]

Well now that sinkhole is gone, I don't have to worry about having bb on turn 2. Plus I'd rather have more blue sources.

[deadlock]

Just keep the Bayou to keep the deck operational at 2 mana.. The deck creators really put a lot of effort in designing the manabase. Run the orginal one with -3 Flooded Strand, -2 Bloodstained, +5 Zendikar Fetch - this has been said about a couple of times now.

With the removal of Sinhole i would keep the deck more instant based too, it gives you more flexibilty and strengthens Stifle. 4 Ponder and 3 Thoughtseize is fine. Personally i would play 4 Spell Snare before 4 Spell Pierce in the maindeck. Definitly run 4 Pierce in the board though.

Also just comparing to Canadian ******** which runs bounce, i just want to trow out Recoil as a possibilty.

[Kanabo]

Would a couple of pernicious deeds be a good possibility? It seems strong because of the lack of non land permanents we Run. Also, why would we run spell Pierce if our worst matchup is aggro?

[GtF]

The spell pierce is still good vs some of the best cards in aggro decks (Price of progress, FOW, aether vial) as well as just being really good in the deck in general.

I wonder what is different about the metagame in europe that people like spell snare so much there? I don't see it in US versions but see it all the time in european versions of the deck.

[nitewolf9]

Deed is a turn too slow. At least with Explosives it costs 3 mana on one turn to sweep away 1 drops, or you can break up the mana cost over a couple of turns. I've tried Deed in the board and hated it. It's also stricter on color requirements. I have been running 2 or 3 EE in the main and they have been awesome though.

Spell Pierce can actually help against Zoo by stopping Path, burn, and Library. Path is something that needs to be stopped most of the time and Pierce is very good at doing that (along with stifle/waste). EE also goes a long way here.

Against merfolk Pierce helps you stop Standstill, and gives you a better chance of stoppipng vial. I usually lose to Merfolk when they are able to pull ahead with that card. If they try to match you threat for threat, card for card, they are in an uphill battle. Standstill breaks your balls.

Pierce is also excellent against Counter/Top decks, and that matchup is very close. And it helps you against storm combo. Like you needed that. Just saying.

[Kanabo]

Would it be worth it to do a split of 2/2 between spell Pierce and spell snare?

And is deed a good choice for a sb card? And are 3 needles too much for my sb?

[Koby]

Against merfolk Pierce helps you stop Standstill, and gives you a better chance of stoppipng vial. I usually lose to Merfolk when they are able to pull ahead with that card. If they try to match you threat for threat, card for card, they are in an uphill battle. Standstill breaks your balls.

I usually board out Spell Pierce for this matchup. While it is a good card vs Standstills, it's pretty much dead for all the other times. Spell Snare is better in this matchup than Pierce.

[nitewolf9]

I usually board out Spell Pierce for this matchup. While it is a good card vs Standstills, it's pretty much dead for all the other times. Spell Snare is better in this matchup than Pierce.

I think it's the second card to board out behind Stifle. That is unless they run fetches. I usually bring about 6 cards in against them (trygon, jitte, and smother for the board config I have now), so that's about -4 Stifle, -2 Pierce. Trygon has been very good.

[Kanabo]

What should I cut for 2 ee? I was thinking 2 ponder or 2 spell Pierce. And what about the 2/2 splints between snuff out/smother and spell Pierce/spell snare?

[DerFern]

What should I cut for 2 ee? I was thinking 2 ponder or 2 spell Pierce. And what about the 2/2 splints between snuff out/smother and spell Pierce/spell snare?

It depends on the rest of your deck. I´m running 3 Snuff Out/ 1 Smother and 2 Spell Snare / 3 Spell Pierce. I made the room by removing Thougtseize and adding 2 Clique... love it

[Kanabo]

Well, do we have to run 8 cantrips? I was thinking of taking out 2 ponders because some times they can be a dead draw and the fact that we would still run 6 cantrips.

Opinions?

[Illissius]

I was thinking of taking out 2 ponders because some times they can be a dead draw

You might want to refresh your memory about the definition of a "dead draw".

[Kanabo]

Okay it may not be a dead draw but I don't think that having 2 less cantrips would hurt this deck too much would it?

[Joon]

I don't get why people start to cut cantrips in tempo decks like Canadian Threshold or Team America. Sure, in a deck packing Tops it might be worth it to cut down the number of Ponders...but in this deck? Seriously? The only source of card quality is reduced to Brainstorm and Ponder and you think it's a good idea to cut those?

In my oppinion the first cards to cut when you want to adapt to something are the cards you board out often. Not the cards you want always.

[Kanabo]

Well, I see no other part of the deck to cut. I'm also tired of getting starting hands with ponders because they don't work at instant speed like brainstorm. Also, I'm gonna test with only 6 cantrips (4 brainstorm, 2 ponder) and see how it goes. I really think 6 is enough though.

Edit: which is better for this decks graveyard hate option: tormods crypt or leyline of the void?

[stu55]

Here is the list I have been running for the past year:
Decklist:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Tombstalker
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Sinkhole
3 Ponder
3 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Snuff Out
1 Thoughtseize
2 Pernicious Deed
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
3 Tropical Island
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacomb

SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thoughtseize
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Chill
2 Threads of Disloyalty



Now, a few thoughts after reading this thread:

Sinkhole: The way the see the format, Wasteland might slowly become worse, the more there are, the more people adapt and play more basics. Makes sinkhole just as good.I don't see myself ever cutting this card from my deck.

Spell Pierce: I don't see it competing against Sinkhole, but Spell Snare. At some point I am going to make a list of relevant spells that each hit and don't hit and see where it matches up. It hits Vial if you are on the play so that could be huge.

Thoughtsize: I like the one of, you never have it for turn one and you can usually find it by the time you need it. I might consider Terravore instead of it in the MD because 8 kills just doesnt seem enough with so many StP running around.

Land Base: I 100% want to work an Island and Swamp into the deck. Blood moon effects, like Dragon Stompy, are just so annoying that Swamp/Snuff out might be the only out some times.