- If your opponent leads with Taiga, Wild Nacatl, what do you do?Originally Posted by emidln
He passes.
You draw for the turn, play Flooded Strand for Underground Sea.
Cast Dark Ritual -> Doomsday making the pile LED, LED, IGG, BS, ToA.
Cast BS getting LED, LED.
Play LED, LED crack'em both for UUUBBB.
Spin Top into IGG, play IGG for BS, LED, LED with UB floating.
Cast LED, LED, Brainstorm cracking LEDs in response for BBBBUUU.
Get BS with BS and cast it, get Top play it and spin it into ToA for 24 life loss.
This is not even the optimal pile, because this pile can be done with just 1 extra card in hand, you have 2. Pile by cheeseburger.
- If your opponent leads with a blue fetch, pass, what do you do?
Search for protection with Top and pray he isn't playing CB. But maybe trying for a turn 3 win you should probably draw for the turn, play the fetch and play Brainstorm. Then on his EOT you break the fetch and see the Top 3. That way you get to see the maximum amount of card until next turn. Is this right?
- If your opponent leads with a Bayou, Thoughtseize, what is the most damaging card they can take and why?
Doomsday, everything else is redudant. BS can be another Top, Dark Ritual can be another DR or a Cabal Ritual one turn slower. Taking the DD forces you into Ad Nauseam or Ill-Gotten Gains territory.
Against Zoo the pass the turn stack, against U I'd Top in the upkeep, because there are no cards in my hand I'd like to lose. Then probably EOT fetch and look again, both times for Chant/LED and otherwise extra Dark Ritual/Ponder/Mystical(to Chant).
I think Dark Ritual is the card in hand you need the most. There are only 5 cards in your deck to replace it (actually 9 with mystical, but that's not preferred) and DDay has 8. So I think the correct choice would be the Ritual, if you didn't have Top, Brainstorm.
Team Nijmegen
Sometimes Swarm is great, sometimes he's really awful that's why I cutted all of them; I wanted to add some back to my board just for merfolk and combo mirrors. Carpet didn't provide a single mana for me that tournament, cause my landstill opponent fetched for double Plateau and had Zuran Orb + Crucible + Wasteland G2.
I guess i wouldn't board Swarm in against CT, only against merfolk and when you fetch trop and play him your opponent must have the force.
I tested Carpet a little more and whenever you resolve one you win against any mana denial strategy.
Against blue I board something like this:
+4x Carpet
+1x Silence
+1x Pact of Negation
+1x Tropical Island
+2x Doomsday
-2x Cabal Rit
-3x Infernal Tutor
-2x Chrome Mox
That's pretty much the basic Plan, than add some number of K-Grips if you expect Canonist, CB, Arcane Laboratory etc, some sort of bounce or pact against Meddling Mage / Teeg.
I take out some number of Lotus Petals, but one, eventually Ad Nauseam and a single Ponder.
This depends largely on what I expect my opponent to play.
I won't contribute to the discussion about ponder vs. top. Just play whatever you like, but don't forget that there is a reason why top is banned in Extended and why many people believe it should be banned in legacy, too. I'd take 4 tops all day long.
Merry Christmas!
Depends on what's your opponent playing, but if I'm playing discard i'm mostly discarding Brainstorm in order to avoid opponent brainstorm in response to another discard effect.
If you discard Brainstorm and the Opponent finds a LED with Top then you lose.
Look at top 3 on upkeep, find a LED and draw it on draw step.
Fetch for Underground Sea.
Cast Dark Ritual, LED, Doomsday.
Making the basic pile: Meditate/LED/LED/Petal/ToA
Crack LED for UUU, spin Top into Meditate. Cast Meditate drawing Top, LED, LED, Petal.
Cast everything, spin Top into Tendrils cracking LEDs for BBBBBB in response for style points.
Cast Tendrils for 18!!!
Crap... let's try again.
Wait did he Thoughtseize? LOL
1. My opponent plays Zoo, i assume that he has no relevant disruption in game one, but a fast clock.
Draw, play Flooded Strand, play Brainstorm, pass
eot crack fetch for Underground Sea, use Top, to set up a turn 3 Doomsday kill.
2. Upkeep use Top (to look for protection), play Flooded Strand, pass.
Keep Brainstorm/Flooded Strand for better Card quality later.
3. The opponent should take Doomsday, because the Stoorm player would be able to win with one more mana. Because of that Brainstorm is definitly the wrong decision.
He should not take Dark ritual, because the Stormplayer could hide every relevant card from discard with Brainstorm and Top until he is able to kill.
That's true, but if you don't find led and i follow the next turn with hymn you loose too.
1- I won on turn 2 against the Zoo, it's on the top of the page! Is there something wrong with my pile?
2- If you draw a card (1), cast Brainstorm (4), break fetch and look at top 3 wish STD (7) you looked at seven cards. If you activate the Top on upkeep you shouldn't break the fetch to play Brainstorm, because then you have no shuffling effect. So you're bound to only go off on turn 4.
3- Doomsday is much harder to replace than mana or the Brainstorm. Not taking Doomsday gives then a chance to win on the next turn, it's slim but it exists.
Loose is that argument.
They still have no clock, you have Top on the table and some lands. The game is far from over. If you find a Brainstorm on the top 3 it's even better.
Brainstorm :
Draw three cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library in any order.
Maybe I'm missing something, but what cards you put back on top?
During resolution of BS you can't activate LED to discard so ...
You can't :
I didn't took the time to look closely at it, but you're probably putting on top the card that you drew for the turn and IGG.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
That is correct.
You Brainstorm into LED/LED/IGG and put back one irrelevant card and IGG ontop of it. You then crack both LED's for BBBUUU and draw with Top to grab your IGG and cast it, getting back LED/LED/Brainstorm. At this point you have BU floating (after using BBUU to cast IGG), so you play both LEDs, Brainstorm, and then respond to Brainstorm by cracking both LEDs and floating BBBUUU(B) again. Brainstorm resolves (you will see Top, irrelevant card, Brainstorm), get Brainstorm, put back Top and irrelevant card. At this point you have BBBBUU Brainstorm again (BBBBU), arrange it so that Tendrils is on top, and grab the Top. Play Top (BBBB), draw Tendrils with it, and Tendrils.
This is pretty much what alderon wrote, but maybe this might help clear up some confusion.
^Thank you both.
Learning all the time.
Yeah, thanks. That's what I meant.
I didn't realize I had to draw up every step of the way in the freaking Storm thread.
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But do you want a different challenge? This one is mostly for fun, it's a corner case... but no impossible.
Consider you opponent is playing a white/green life link creature deck, is tapped out with no cards in hand, has you dead next turn and is at a whooping 44 life.
You are playing a Ad Nauseam/DD hybrid. You are at 11 life. Fully untapped on your first main phase.
Hand:
Tendrils of Agony, LED, Dark Ritual and Doomsday in hand
In play:
STD STD
Underground Sea/Scrubland
Top of your deck:
Krosan Grip, Tundra, Tropical Island
Can you ramp up to 21 storm + Tendrils?
Last edited by alderon666; 12-23-2009 at 05:58 PM.
Top was banned for logistical reasons, because it made tournaments take forever and as a result there were an obscene amount of draws for match results.
Suddenly, Fluffy realized she wasn't quite like the other bunnies anymore.
-Team R&D-
-noitcelfeR maeT-
@alderon666
my count says you get 24 Storm + Tendrils. My proof is here. (Linked to my blog so as to not spoil the answer for those who don't want it.)
Edit: 28 storm + tendrils. cracking LEDs, no matter how impressive, does not generate storm.
Edit#2: I'm bad with this deck. 24 Storm + Tendrils. Thanks alderon666!
Last edited by emidln; 12-23-2009 at 08:45 PM.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Didn't want to rain on your parade there, but when you make your second pile the SDT is in the top of your library, if you don't add it to your second pile, replacing a LED, you can't make SDT -> SDT (x9) on the second iteration.
Other than that that seems to be the optimal pile to build in this situation.
Even though this looks like a ludicrous situation it shows us how powerful is having Tendrils in hand. It allows you to build a pile that focuses just on mana an that helps on the Doomsday loop. The requirements are pretty standard other than the second SDT in play and Tendrils in hand, but it's just something to keep in mind when you opponent has an active Jitte with 6 counters or something.
Ok, fixed the math there. It's 24 Storm + Tendrils so 50 lifeloss.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I saw this list and would like to discuss:
I just know that this David Minarro is a good player so I don't want to bash this build prematurely, but although it looks consistent, I just can't see any reason to play without a splash.Code:1st - David Miñarro - TW: ANT Maindeck: 4 Flooded Strand 2 Island 4 Polluted Delta 1 Swamp 3 Underground Sea 2 Ad Nauseam 4 Brainstorm 4 Cabal Ritual 4 Chrome Mox 4 Dark Ritual 4 Duress 1 Ill-Gotten Gains 3 Infernal Tutor 4 Lion's Eye Diamond 4 Lotus Petal 4 Mystical Tutor 2 Ponder 2 Sensei's Divining Top 1 Tendrils of Agony 3 Thoughtseize Sideboard: 4 Dark Confidant 1 Chain of Vapor 1 Echoing Truth 1 Hurkyl's Recall 1 Slaughter Pact 4 Spell Pierce 1 Thoughtseize 2 Wipe Away
What sense does that make? What advantages may it bring with it? Is it built to be more persistent against TempoThresh?
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
2 Ad Nauseam and 3 Thoughtseize looks risky to me. Isn't the lifeloss too much of an issue?
That's also a riddle to me.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
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