(Archive) [DTW] Aggro Loam

[Eksem]

Hi, I've been looking into maybe building an Aggro Loam-deck. I like the prospect of some very nice card drawing engines combined with efficient beaters. However, i'm worried tthat it might not longer be such a strong strategy? My meta is quite diverse, but Enchantress, Goblins, Merfolk and Faeries are the most prevalent decks. Should I try to build, learn and pilot this deck, or is it a waste of my time?

[Aggro_zombies]

Hi, I've been looking into maybe building an Aggro Loam-deck. I like the prospect of some very nice card drawing engines combined with efficient beaters. However, i'm worried tthat it might not longer be such a strong strategy? My meta is quite diverse, but Enchantress, Goblins, Merfolk and Faeries are the most prevalent decks. Should I try to build, learn and pilot this deck, or is it a waste of my time?

You can build this deck for that meta, but be warned that Enchantress will require dedicated sideboard slots.

Dreams and Wish are not so hot against Faeries or Merfolk, but Dreams is pretty good at dealing with Goblins and slowing down Enchantress. You may wish to maindeck some Firespout to deal with Faeries, Merfolk, and Goblins. With that much removal-light counter-control, you can also use Vexing Shusher in the sideboard if you feel you want more insurance against blue decks.

Aggro Loam is generally strong against things that aren't storm combo, but some matchups can be problematic for first-time pilots (notably Counterbalance). It's definitely worthwhile to learn how to play it so you get some idea of how to effectively play against it, but whether or not you build it and use it is largely up to you. I actually can't think of any deck that's equally strong against all four of those, though no doubt Forbiddian would post that NoGoyf beats them all.

EDIT: Aggro Loam is probably the strongest strategy that uses Life from the Loam since the deck has a lot of power and redundancy. Whether or not Loam decks are strong enough for the current meta is open to debate, but I happen to think that Aggro Loam is still relevant. There's only been two major American tournaments so far this year, and while Aggro Loam hasn't fared as well at those as it did in St. Louis, I've noticed that many of the pilots doing badly with the deck are running Wishes and multiple Dreams main, which is probably an outdated approach. Merfolk right now is keeping Counterbalance in check, and this deck beats up on Merfolk pretty hard (although I keep getting inexplicably mana screwed in those matchups...).

EDIT 2: Wootles @ being back in the Decks to Beat forum! The first post primer is out of date and somewhat incomplete, though...

[Eksem]

Well, this deck being bumped to DTW-status again does answer my question on whether this deck is still relevant or not :)

The list I have been looking at ran 2 Pulse and 2 EE, and I guess those slots could be dedicated to Firespout or Devastating Dreams; although EE and Pulse seems to be a lot more flexible. For reference, this is the list i'm looking at:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=31797

Except for the 1-of Terminate that just seems strange I might run a Stinkweed Imp, but otherwise that list looks really solid to me. What do you think of that list?

[Aggro_zombies]

Ha! Chris is Volt, a teammate. I agree that the list is a bit random; mine is a bit different (there's also a tournament report in that section of this site if you want to read it). Tooting my own horn aside, Chris mentioned that he based his list off of Pat McGregor's winning list from St. Louis, with a couple of sideboard changes.

If you're looking at adjusting Chris's list, it would make sense to drop the Terminate for either an extra EE or a Pulse. I don't think either one of them should be cut from the main as they are both quite good, but against more aggressive decks Pulse is the weaker of the two. For Chris's list, I think I might drop Terminate for a Firespout and Terravore for a Witness. Witness is quite good if you're expecting a lot of counterspell decks as Volrath's Stronghold allows you to recover a countered Witness and try again. Terravore is easier to hate but packs more punch than Countryside Crusher in the middle term thanks to trample being able to punch through creature hordes. I definitely would not dip below three Assaults with that many aggro-control decks in your meta.

Hope that helps.

[Nelis]

A friend of mine has borrowed my Aggro Loam many a times and won almost all of our local tournaments since picking it up. We have a very aggro metagame. He is one of the better players but the deck just is very strong vs aggro. If you practice the blue match-up enough you can win that too.

Regarding to that list. It has absolutely no Burning Wish (although I must say my friend used to play 4 but is thinking of going back to 3 maybe 2 since its a bit slow) I think that list doesn't have Devastating Dreams it's because of his meta over there (Top 8 is all control and combo) But with an aggro meta such as yours I would definitely run DD. That card that wrecks aggro. Now that I think it over hes probably not running Burning Wish either because of his meta. Maybe Aggro Zombies can confirm this?

I would put in at least another Terravore. It's simply game winning game 1. My friend keeps them in game 2 and 3 as well but a lot of people don't.

So you could do something like this:

- 1 Crusher
- 2 Engineered Explosives
- 2 Maelstrom Pulse
- 1 Life from the Loam
- 1 Terminate

+ 1 Terravore
+ 4 Burning wish
+ 2 Devastating Dreams

Some people prefer Crusher over Terravore because of graveyard removal but keep in mind that you sometimes get in a position where you have a Crusher on the table when you had to play DD (because goblins has too many creatures out already for instance). When they are able to get back into the game by putting down some blockers you wont get any lands anymore because of crushers ability. With Terravore you're sure that you will draw extra cards and get the final damage in because of trample. And if you practice a lot you can surely play around grave removal.

[Eksem]

Ha, that's a funny coincidence :)

Witness sounds like a great choice. It really should go in the deck. I'm not as impressed with Wish boards (in general), it's cool when it works, but it really doesn't feel that neccessary in this deck, or am I wrong? Devastating Dreams, however, seems good. Although, it would feel a bit odd to take out EE and Pulse for them. Well, it would have to be instead of EE anyhow.

I have started collecting the cards for this deck though, and I look forward to trying it out. I have been playing it a little on MWS and it seems to be exactly what I am looking for in a deck right now.

[Aggro_zombies]

Ha, that's a funny coincidence :)

Witness sounds like a great choice. It really should go in the deck. I'm not as impressed with Wish boards (in general), it's cool when it works, but it really doesn't feel that neccessary in this deck, or am I wrong? Devastating Dreams, however, seems good. Although, it would feel a bit odd to take out EE and Pulse for them. Well, it would have to be instead of EE anyhow.

EE is definitely better against Merfolk. You'll have to bait counters pretty heavily to ensure you don't get blown out by your own Dreams in the blue matchups, which can be a pain (and is one reason I don't like the card so much).

As for Wish, it seems to be mostly a matter of opinion at this point. The lists that do well in the U.S. tend not to have them whereas the lists doing well in Europe tend to include them. I personally am not a fan of Wish for many of the same reasons you are; I'd rather have a real sideboard than one full of gimmicky corner-case answers. Pulse and EE tend to be redundant with a lot of your Wishboard answers to begin with, and the final nail in the coffin for me was the changing of he rules with M10 that made it impossible to Wish for removed Loams.

[Nelis]

I must add that the Wish is there for Life From the Loam or Devastating Dreams and maybe Raven's Crime. Not for much more. Although I personally would add a Hull Breach if I would pick up the deck myself again. If you add wish then there's no space anymore for EE or Pulse.

The thing is, but that's my preference, that I find it silly to pick up aggro loam but not play with dreams. Then you might as well just pick op some sort of rock or just a control deck.

In a aggro meta I would definitely play DD. You could play without wishboard and just add a 3rd and 4th DD in your sideboard and side them in vs aggro

[Antonius]

does anyone ever play white in aggro loam for geddon?

[Rizso]

Seen white for Knight of the reliqaury thought but not armageddon.

[Aggro_zombies]

Seen white for Knight of the reliqaury thought but not armageddon.

This. White seems to be popular in European lists that use it for Knight and sometimes other cards like Swords or Teeg (in the sideboard).

What do people think of Raging Ravine? For those who don't know:

Raging Ravine
Land
~ comes into play tapped.
T: Add or to your mana pool.
: ~ becomes a 3/3 red and green Elemental creature until end of turn with "Whenever this creature attacks, put +1/+1 counter on it." It's still a land.

In my testing and play with the deck, I've often found that I don't need the second Taiga because Mox Diamond and my basics provide me with sufficient green and red mana. This land would replace that second Taiga and serve as a 1-of "creature" that's difficult to remove and which grows pretty strongly, in addition to being completely recoverable by Loam and fixing for my primary colors. The downsides, of course, are that it comes into play tapped and that it costs so much to activate; the small size to cost ratio might make it a win-more card when facing a sea of Tarmogoyfs. Still, it's interesting as another "big dude" option that doesn't take up a real slot. Thoughts?

[Akuma]

IMO, Raging Ravine is terrible and does not belong in Aggro Loam (or any Legacy deck for that matter). CIPT and 4 mana to activate are useless in this format.

[sauce]

IMO, Raging Ravine is terrible and does not belong in Aggro Loam (or any Legacy deck for that matter). CIPT and 4 mana to activate are useless in this format.

I agree, its like a worse version of Treetop village and you have no way to fetch it up if you don't play KoR.
I would rather play Gargoyle castle over this land.

[Wargoos]

EDIT 2: Wootles @ being back in the Decks to Beat forum! The first post primer is out of date and somewhat incomplete, though...

I heavily agree!
As someone who peeks to pick up this pile (mwahahaha) I would really appreciate it when an expirienced player makes a new, updated primer for this deck. And since it's back to DtW status I think I am not the only one.

[Aggro_zombies]

I could probably write something up in a few day's time if people want.

[kortero]

I could probably write something up in a few day's time if people want.

It would be great. I'm currently gathering cards for this deck and missing like 11 cards out of 75. I own Tarmogoyfs and Mox Diamonds though so it's not a biggie.. I'm starting testing with Pat McGregor's version, but that isn't really that much different from the version you play as far as I know. I'm seriously thinking of bringing Aggro Loam to Madrid and it would be nice to read the updated primer on the deck, and on the sideboarding with a real sideboard instead of wishboard.

-kortero

[Eksem]

The thing is, but that's my preference, that I find it silly to pick up aggro loam but not play with dreams. Then you might as well just pick op some sort of rock or just a control deck.

In a aggro meta I would definitely play DD. You could play without wishboard and just add a 3rd and 4th DD in your sideboard and side them in vs aggro

Really? I do not wish to question you, but that statement makes me intrigued. To me (who have not really played the deck, yet) it's the card drawing engines and the huge beaters that makes me interested in the deck. DD just seems like a sweeper option among many, and quite meta dependent at that. In an aggro-control-ridden meta the sick blowout (for you!) a countered DD would result in makes me feel I would not dare run it MD. Yeah, it probably wrecks Zoo and Goblins, but Merfolk and Fae? It seems better to run EE and Pulse (since they also can handle other annoying permanents).

How is your reasoning behind that DD is deck-defining, and that one could just as well go with a control deck or The Rock if not running it?

[Nelis]

Really? I do not wish to question you, but that statement makes me intrigued. To me (who have not really played the deck, yet) it's the card drawing engines and the huge beaters that makes me interested in the deck. DD just seems like a sweeper option among many, and quite meta dependent at that. In an aggro-control-ridden meta the sick blowout (for you!) a countered DD would result in makes me feel I would not dare run it MD. Yeah, it probably wrecks Zoo and Goblins, but Merfolk and Fae? It seems better to run EE and Pulse (since they also can handle other annoying permanents).

How is your reasoning behind that DD is deck-defining, and that one could just as well go with a control deck or The Rock if not running it?

Good question. To me the deck is not only carddraw and big beaters. DD is not just one of many possible sweepers, it is THE sweeper that has the most synergy with those creatures and what the deck does. That's why it defines this deck for me.

The deck might have more problems vs Merfolk and Faeries. But if the meta has a lot of Zoo and Goblins I wouldn't expect a lot of Merfolk anyway. Besides Merfolk can't just counter all of your threats. They cant ignore your creatures just to keep their counters for DD or Seismic Assault. And you can always put in a couple of Volcanic Fallouts to improve your Merfolk match up a wee bit. I don't know much about faeries because hardly anyone plays it (in Holland). I would choose to focus my deck on aggro and leave the sideboard for the other matchups.

You are right that EE and Pulse are more versatile but running them (especially EE) would actually weaken your matchup vs Goblins (too many different cc's). It's a bit better vs Zoo because most of their creatures have either 1 or 2 cc but Gaddock Teeg wrecks EE opposed to DD. Besides EE and Pulses can be countered just as well. The big difference is that a resolved DD is game over (most times).

It is true that Aggro loam is meta depended but I just wouldn't run it anyway when the meta is not right for it. I must admit I have the luxury to be able to make almost any deck I want. If you only have the funds to put 1 deck together I would go with the Rock because it's versatile in a mixed meta. It has disruption elements to battle control/combo and control elements to battle aggro. With such deck I would be more inclined to play versatile answers (like EE, Vindicate, Pulse) because of the role (aggro or control) you have to take depending on what your opponent plays.

[Eksem]

Good question. To me the deck is not only carddraw and big beaters. DD is not just one of many possible sweepers, it is THE sweeper that has the most synergy with those creatures and what the deck does. That's why it defines this deck for me.

The deck might have more problems vs Merfolk and Faeries. But if the meta has a lot of Zoo and Goblins I wouldn't expect a lot of Merfolk anyway. Besides Merfolk can't just counter all of your threats. They cant ignore your creatures just to keep their counters for DD or Seismic Assault. And you can always put in a couple of Volcanic Fallouts to improve your Merfolk match up a wee bit. I don't know much about faeries because hardly anyone plays it (in Holland). I would choose to focus my deck on aggro and leave the sideboard for the other matchups.

You are right that EE and Pulse are more versatile but running them (especially EE) would actually weaken your matchup vs Goblins (too many different cc's). It's a bit better vs Zoo because most of their creatures have either 1 or 2 cc but Gaddock Teeg wrecks EE opposed to DD. Besides EE and Pulses can be countered just as well. The big difference is that a resolved DD is game over (most times).

It is true that Aggro loam is meta depended but I just wouldn't run it anyway when the meta is not right for it. I must admit I have the luxury to be able to make almost any deck I want. If you only have the funds to put 1 deck together I would go with the Rock because it's versatile in a mixed meta. It has disruption elements to battle control/combo and control elements to battle aggro. With such deck I would be more inclined to play versatile answers (like EE, Vindicate, Pulse) because of the role (aggro or control) you have to take depending on what your opponent plays.

I now understand your points better. I will have to test some cards and see what works for me, I guess. Thanks!

[Shanghi Knights]

Anyone else thinking of trying what i'm thinking in some form?

http://sales.starcitygames.com//card...product=171667
+
Countryside Crusher

true its a sorcery and slow (so maybe best burning wished for) but still thats a potentially huge freaken countryside someones gotta stare down the barrel at.