I woudn't even play qasali anymore, count how many u have secced him in the whole time u play the deck.
Like 1 time?? So I woudn't play him anymore.
I'm playing something like this but with firespouts side^^
And euhm Phantom_it, did u play zoo and gobblins?
How was your matchup.
And would u go 2 elspeth or 2 jace or both 2x?
I was playing first aggro bant but in this decks there's also place for it..
If u quit 2 ponder.?
Or maybe play 2 plainswalkers and 2 ponder and then 2 finks main?
Lemme know tyvm
what do u guys think of this sideboard?:
2x propaganda
3x relic of progenitus
2x kitchen finks
1x volcanic island
3x firespout
2x krosan grip
2xx (probably trygon predator or something more against combo or idk..)
What's your maindeck is looking like? I would cut those propagandas or add couple ghostly prisons supposing that you are playing W. Kitchen finks are for aggro yes? I would cut those for Path to Exiles. Those free slots i would add those ghostly prisons. I would also suggest cutting -1x firespout, 1x volcanic island and 2x krosan grips for 3x spell pierce and 1x tormod's crypt. Or i would cut one more relic of progenitus and add another tormod's crypt.Originally Posted by BantFTW
I only played against Zoo. I would call the matchup even, the die roll is very important here.
I would consider 2x Elspeth and possibly 1x Jace now.
I will never cut Pridemages. They performed spectacularly. It's the exalted bonus that brings them over the top of Trygon Predator. And no, I've sacrificed it plenty of times - to kill Survivals, Counterbalances, Jittes and even a lone Dreadnought.
I would also advise using correct grammar, as I have trouble understanding your last 4 sentences.
After I found 3 maindeck slots for Qasali in my CTop UGW without NO(it is more like Phantom but without Nobles) I improved my merfolks and goblin MU, also I find a way advantage against de mirror MU and Goyf Wars.Cutting Trygons make me put some other 3cc spells so the mana curve would not be affected but Qasali are insane cause it force your opponent to use his deed, smashs random BloodMoon and 3sphere, it is versatile and have 2cc which made me opt for it instead of EE maindeck.I really recomend people to test it in their CB lists.
Super Bizarros Team.
HUEHUEHUE BRBRBR. VIVA DILMA!!! EM NOME DE JESUS CRISTO!
The last column is losses, not ties.
PhanTom_lt,
nice brief report and nice deck. I have been using something very similar for some time now (2 Elspeth instead of a split Jace/Elspeth).
Some short questions:
-have you ever missed the "oops, I win" factor that is "Natural Order -> Progenitus". I mean Tinker-Colossus was good in Vintage, so this must be good, and it seems in theory. Somehow it has never paid out in my testing and I have never tried it in a tournament for this reason. More opinions on this topic would be nice.
-What is your boarding plan against Zoo and Merfolk ? Path seems obvious, in previous post taking out Force of Will was mentioned against Zoo. Are Blue Blasts worth bringing in? I don't play any in the sideboard, rather having more Dredge hate.
Thanks in advance
// Lands
8 fetch (blue based)
1 Island
1 Forest
1 plains
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [NE] Daze
2 [M10] Ponder
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 kitchen finks (it makes u win aggro)
SB: 3 relic of progenitus
SB: 2 ghostly prison (it wins against dredge and slows down zoo and gobblins= a win)
SB: 3 firespout
SB: 1 volcanic island
SB: 2 slots I don't know (probably more graveyard hate or combo hate)
If I would go NOPRO package, just replace the plainswalkers with the package and in the sideboard an empyrial archangel (it helps alot too against some matchups)
What do u think of the list.
bad matchups are gobblins and sometimes zoo but normallt it ain't really hard.
Thanks.
Yes, the "Oops, I will win now" factor is missing. However, it is outbalanced by the fact that you will not be drawing dead cards - Natural Orders or Progenitus quite often end up being dead. I also had a (unlucky) streak in testing where I would draw all my NO's and no creature. Or Progenitus and no Brainstorm or FoW to pitch to. Yes, I lost a game in the GP, where the opponent pulled out a Progenitus. Next game, however, he drew it, and had to NO for a Tarmogoyf. Which lost him the game. Getting your Natural Order countered is also quite often a loss, whereas Elspeth/Jace will win the game if resolved, and won't lose the game for you if countered.
Against Zoo: +3 PtE, +3 Hydroblast, +2 Jitte, -3-4 Force, -1-2 Planeswalkers, -1-2 Ponder, -1 Top. On the draw, you can keep Forces in and take out Dazes instead.
Merfolk: +3 Pte, +2 Jitte, +2 Krosan Grip (sometimes), -4 Counterbalance, -1 Ponder, -1 War Monk, -1 Top, the last two if bringing in Grips.
Blasts are probably the worst card in the sideboard, and having more Dredge hate seems reasonable. But extensive testing showed me that I actually have a pretty even game postboard even having Blasts in the SB.
don't u play to few creatures for playing jitte?
Or what do you think of it?
and what do you fiend the list with 4 plainswalkers, a jace or elspeth is a pain in the ass so^^
like u say, NO is sometimes death and with a plainswalker u can win the game...
but I'm still not sure of the qasali, it's not bad but a trygon predator or clique is so much better
In case no one has realized it yet:
Trygon Predator is mediocre versus most decks.
Rhox War Monk is only good against Zoo, Goblins, and--incidentally--Belcher. The latter is rare, and even there he's very marginal. Against the former two he's really not very good.
And of course Dark Confidant is a card that only works in aggro shells right now, as the format is just too fast to be playing a card that doesn't stop the beating AND deals damage to you.
Supreme Blue
Mana: 20
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains
Creatures: 12
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Rhox War Monk
2 Trygon predator
2 Sower of Temptation
Spells: 28
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
3 Firespout
Can anyone help me Improve my list? Thanks
Last edited by Kanabo; 03-10-2010 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Edited list
Favorite Card: Dark Depths
Oké:
I would go always 4 top and CB, so drop something (I don't like sowers either, they die so fast^^-)
also 3 daze is more then enough so...
This is pretty much all wrong.
War Monk is better than Tarmogoyf against Reanimator. He puts a clock on the board while extending the amount of swings they need to hit you with to win. In the situation where they use Reanimate, He often puts them on a faster clock than they put you on. He also pitches to Force (which is, regardless of becoming a near-meme, relevant).
He is the best creature in your deck (that isn't Progenitus) against Zoo. None of their removal spells touch him other than the Paths that they really want to be saving for Goyf, and he's a wall they can barely ever attack through. In combination with Counterbalance or Force protecting him, he's your best weapon to fight the aggro decks which can otherwise whittle you down to being in burn range.
He has less value against Goblins, because they're so explosive, but he's still able to hold off any single attacker, and negates the effects of at least one or two more.
I agree with your assessment of Predator and Confidant, but you're underestimating the value of RWM, for certain.
Thanks for the reply. Regarding Natural Order: This was essentially also my impression.
Countering Natural Order seems really good in most cases, although facing a Progenitus isn't fun either.
I also tend to more often draw Progenitus instead of Hierarch+NO, so I definitely can agree on the Planeswalker plan.
Personally, I also dislike Jitte for similar reasons, but has anybody considered Stoneforge Mystic, which was shown on some deck tech on the official GP coverage? Somebody called it "like Trinket Mage only better". This is a bit exaggerated, but if playing Jitte main, Stoneforge Mystic might be worth acting as Jitte 3-4.
I tested stoneforge, and it's a just-not card...
It's good, u can get jitte and stuff but not in a cb-list.
You want much more something els...
But, I would really quit qasali's, maybe 2 mianboard but not more.
Because,
- you really don't sec it much
- you prefer much more a trygon predator
- qasali is bad against soo and goblins
Look at the top 8 lists of the gp at Madrid.
Louis plays 2 qasali's and ruben gonzalez not even one...
If you think how much you sacrefice it, it's like 1-2 in my whole life^^
So what's your guys opinnion?
And @ Nightmare, it's true. RWM is really good play 3 main and 1 side.
Nightmare would u go plainswalkers or nopro and would you play the angel side then or not against gobblins?
Hi again, since i played the "basic" supreme list without Natural Orders on a couple of tournaments i had some problems facing control matchups, aggro is way possible with spouts,swords,monks,goofies also i was lucky against merfolks by drawing the pyroblasts when needed. The worst games i had where against GBW control or the Bant/Survival decks. As we can't generate a real tempo deck i feld like daze was a bit outranged here so i came up to this list:
Graf Orlock:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Spellstutter Sprite
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Rhox War Monl
1 Elspeth
3 Firespout
4 Swords to plowshares
4 counterbalance
4 senseis divining top
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
4 force of will
3 spell snare
3 Volcanic island
4 tropical island
4 tundra
3 island
3 misty rainforest
3 scalding tarn
Sideboard:
3 Sower of Temptation
3 Krosan Grip
3 pyroblast
2 hydroblast
2 relic of progenitus
2 revenous trap? (the black one)
For the Sideboard i am not really sure if i wanna keep it this way, i had some issues on Jötun Grunt instead of the traps/relics
Honestly, I'm testing a list that runs both right now. I haven't really nailed down what I want to focus on, so I'm trying to get a feel for which of them are better in what situations. The only way to do that is to run them both.
I'm not a fan of running Angel in the board, and I don't see a whole lot of Goblins, honestly, so I'm not sure if it would be worth it in the board or not. I'm never looking to spend 5 mana on anything though, so my initial gut instinct is no.
Also, from a red text perspective, I've gotta ask you again to clean up your grammar and spelling. In the DtB forum it is even more important than elsewhere on the site, and your atrocious posting habits are detracting from your otherwise insightful information.
Sorry, I'm doing my best.
But are you running NORPO package + 2 plainswalkers (2 elspeth, 2 jace or one eeach?)
Jace is mostly a win, elspeths is also really annoying.
But idk, can you post what you are testing atm?
And about the angel, my meta is gobblins, zoo, ant and rock.
So then it really ain't bad...
Tyvm
Stoneforge mystic is very bad. Very, very, very bad. I really don't even understand why people are considering it. Besides the cutesy vial mystic etc etc plays most decks would rather just run more jittes. People need to stop trying to innovate when it comes to terrible things like mystic.
Recently though, I've come up with the idea of cutting the 4th confidant for a trinket mage in my ubg countertop deck. As a lot of people have said confidant is bad in a lot of matchups and you rarely want 2. You really never want 2 on the board unless you have a SDT.Trinket mage is interesting as he essentially free's up a lot of sideboard room and is still a critter which the deck tends to be short on.
Snuff has also proven to be insane. It might seem greedy but being able to snuff out a t1 nacatl when you are on the draw is infinitely better than having a putrefy in your hand. It is also a huge tempo boost against other countertop decks where your life total is irrelevant. It also lets you cut down on the ReB since it is an answer to t1 lackey as well.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
