I have no experience with mindbreak trap, can someone explain when to use it, how it works etc.
to clarify: do you just wait till he plays 3 spells and drop it ?
I tried the basic Swamp thing, but I found that I was frequently red-screwed, and also that Wastelands weren't as big of a problem as I first thought.
It depends on what you are playing. It requires a decent amount of knowledge about how any deck your playing against works. Most of the time against belcher you can just nail whatever win condition they try and play because MB trap hits Empty the Warrens as well. Against ANT, its not nearly as clear cut. If you think their going to try and duress you, its usually a good idea to hit ritual spells. From my experience, they usually don't see MB trap coming and just try and go off without protection. In that case, you hit Ad Nauseam with it. Against solidarity, you usually want to stop their draw spells.Originally Posted by markbris
So does it work like a counterspell for free I guess? It stops all copies of tendrils or empty the warrens?
Exactly. The only downside is that it can be played around and pretty easily duressed out of your hand. But a force of will like card that can be played in goblins? I'll take it.
You never hit Duress against ANT with Trap. If they have Duress they will
play it as spell number 1 or 2. You either hit their Ad Nauseum if they go Rit, Rit, Ad Naus. Their tutor target with Infernal Tutor target if they go for hellbent Tutor. And it really depends on the situation if they go for IGG. Honestly, its pretty self explanatory. Just wait untill they play an engine spell and nail that.
Against Solidarity Id just try to hit their untap spell but honestly even the most hardcore Solidarity players have dropped the deck.
Last edited by Mantis; 03-13-2010 at 08:26 AM.
Team R&D
does everyone favor relic of progenitus over tormods crypt? I feel like I like crypt more cuz its free so it doesnt slow me down first turn and i can activate it fully for free. Does relics cantrip and abiility to use multiple times outweigh this?
I'm curious...which deck would have the advantage, Rb Goblins or Mono-Red, in an "almost" mirror match.
Matter of preference. Relic helps with goyf/kotr/lavamancer as well, to some extent.
Definitely mono red,
1) generally higher gempalm count which is really good, and generally higher stingscourger/sgc count which are both pretty good in the mirror
2) manabase less susceptible to wasteland, port shutting down splash
3) warren weirding is terribad
4) more likely to have sb pyrokinesis
Just won the tournament (well, split in the finals with Enchantress), sadly not enought time for extensive report. Lost 1-2 vs Pro Counterbalance, won 2-0 vs TES, 2-0 vs Aggro Loam, 2-1 vs Aggro Loam, 1-1 with Enchantresss, in top4 2-0 vs Pro Counterbalance (same as round1), and split in the finals with Enchantress (to save time. Also, this matchup is boring.
List:
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Badlands
1 Blood Crypt
4 Aunties Hovel
3 Mountain
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Mogg Fanatic
4 Frogtosser Banneret
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Weirding
4 Goblin Matron
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Mad Auntie
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Earwig Squad
SB
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Pyroblast
2 Tormods Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
Now I would drop blasts and sharpshooter from sb to include 4 Cabal Therapy, blasts were not very useful vs TES and not that great vs counterbalace or whatever, where Therapys have much more use.
Comments on decklist and suggestions are welcome. :)
I'd take out the fanatics first, theres no way they are deserving of slots in this deck anymore. Secondly, I don't know why anyone is running less than 4 piledrivers, they are a house against merfolk and they let you get the trademark fast goblin starts, which you want as often as possible.You probably don't need tutuk either unless your meta is full of artifacts, the only reason id want him is for jittes but not enough decks run jittes. I'm not going to comment on the frogtossers cuz i have never used them. I think wort is too slow, not useful enough as well.
Went 0-3 drop at Vestal; apparently there was a sea of Fish there and I get Stax, Dredge, and Aggro Loam. Go figure.
Would've won Stax matchup if he didn't topdeck a Sphere of Law, and it went downhill from there.
Not talking about this performance anymore; I'm still frustrated. I'll post again on goblins when I calm down.
markbris: fanatics are still usefull as another drop t1 and clearing the way for lackey, also getting rid of all Bobs, Noble Hierarchs, lavamancers and other problematic creatures asap without having to get another gobliun into play and cycle incinerator. Not so great as they used to be, but still worthy a pair slots md imho.
piledrivers alone are a little disappointing. Dropping one t2 isn`t very scary, especially if no goblins were put into play t1. Also, with frogtossers md there`s already enough with 2-drops. Frogtossers compensate the speed loss, with frogtosser t2 I can play Ringleader or Matron+tutored Piledriver t3.
My meta has enough artifacts to include Tuktuk MD, so it`s more like metagame choice. Anyway I would probably play him in an unknown meta too, simply I hate the idea of randomly losing g1 vs jitte/chalice/whatever random artifact brokenness can come my way.
Wort is actually pretty good, she has evasion and is a must-answer-immediatly in most cases, because returning siege-gangs/incinerators/ringleaders from GY wins games very fast. Late game just wins games.
How is Fanatic any better than Lightning Bolt? It cleans up a lot more creature and is actually very good against Merfolk and Zoo while Fanatic barely helps these matchups (I actually play 2 or 3 Bolts MD and have been fairly happy with them). He is unlikely to speed you up so much that you can win a turn quicker and hitting a Fanatic off Ringleader isn't going to be game changing in my opinion. I ultimately think that while Fanatic has some synergy with the deck, it's powerlevel is way too low to currently see play in Legacy.
Team R&D
The problem with bolt is:
-lowers goblin count for ringleader
-does not gives bonus to piledriver
-does not gets bonus from lords
-can`t be vialed in
-can`t be returned with wort as a recursive damage source if you cannot attack for some reason(not very likely to be important)
-cannot be tutored with matron
-does not applies pressure and cannot block if an opponent has a bigger creature. Well, fanatic isn`t much of a threat either, to be fair. But Fanatic can block a goyf or RWM for one turn if needed.
Overall I`m a bit sceptical about an inclusion of Bolts MD, might give them a try sometime though. Maybe I`m wrong, happens :D
It are all just cute tricks, the card itself sucks bad.
Ringleader and Matron: If you get to chain Goblins with Matron and Ringleader than you are in a phenomenal shape to win and Mogg Fanatic is often win more in those situations. However, it's obvious that Fanatic is better in this respect.
Chumpblock: If I am in a situation where I need to chumpblock Goyfs and RWM and trade 1 for 0, it likely won't matter since I will lose. Lightning Bolt at least has the potential to change that scenario around with a 1 for 2, block with Goblin damage, play Bolt. Or potentially even a 1 for 1, small Goyf or Instigator + Bolt.
Vial: I don't care about Vialing it in, since I do not want the card in the first place. Rather just have an actual good card.
Wort and lords: I don't run Wort, so I can't really commentate on that.
Piledriver: Lightning Bolt definately has it's merits concerning Piledriver as well, such as clearing the path for it to crash in.
Bolt on the other hand, is a major tempo tool. It kills your opponents investments for just one mana. It clears the path for Instigator and Lackey, which is huge. It's great against Zoo, takes their tempo away by nuking their first turn play. It can occasionally kill an unsuspecting combo player, although this is very corner case. However, don't get me wrong, Lightning Bolt has it's flaws and is definately a debatable inclusion in Goblins. I just feel like it's miles better than Fanatic and Goblins should under no circumstance run Fanatic right now.
Team R&D
FWIW I'm running 4 Bolts in mono red atm. Tempo is, with the current state of Legacy, much more important to this deck than the cute synergies offered up by weak Goblins. You can blow out other aggressive decks with a surprise Bolt to their only blocker. This also tends to make them play much more defensively. The current removal package I'm running is 4 Lightning Bolts and 3 Stingscourgers. I'm much happier being able to always kill stuff early on unlike Gempalm which has felt like win-more.
Interesting. Any more opinions on the point of Bolt vs Lackey vs nothing at 1cc? I`m getting more and more interested in trying Bolts out during next tournament...
Not Bolt vs Lackey, please.
Bolts are awesome. It is really good against lots of MU's. I was playing 4 until some time ago. Just removed them to test something different.
I first tested them when I removed Fanatics. Every single time that I drew Fanatics, I wished they were Bolts. And revealing them from a Ringleader really didn't made a difference in any game.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Like mantis said I'd rather have bolt against fanatic if anything, fanatic doesnt kill zoos one drops, other than lavamancers, bu it cant clear a wild nacatl or kird ape/loam lion if they run those. The fact that it hurts your ringleaders isnt a big deal like mantis said because drawing a fanatic off ringleader as opposed to a bolt doesnt really change much.
On the subject of wort, what matchups do you feel like it improves? I could see it maybe improving zoo, but most likely i'd rather just tutor for another siegegang than wort, that way I get something at least when they bolt/path/helix it. It doesn't help against combo, I guess its a house against merfolk but you don't really need anything more there.
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