[Deck] Burn

[3ktor]

you need something for graveyard in sideboard
tormod's crypt or Relic of Progenitus

[YigSnakeDaddy]

I've been modifying it a bit to support Shrapnel Blast a bit better, hence Mishra's Ankh and Factory. How does it look?


12 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Lava Spike
4 Ankh of Mishra
4 Incinerate
4 Magma Jet
4 Price of Progress
4 Rift Bolt
4 Flamebreak
4 Fireblast

Sideboard:
3 Aura Barbs
4 Pyroblast
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Shattering Spree

[Mikeleroi]

I would´t change all these things (great furnace, factories and ankhs) only to include Shrapnel blast. Sure, 5 damage for 1R instant is amazing, but doesn´t worth it: almost ALL legacy decks include wasteland. Now, you have 8 targets ONLY to be able to play Shrapnel blast. And in addition, factories add 1, instead of R. An initial hand with mountain-factory+5spells sucks. Also, you have flamebreaks (RRR)

[(nameless one)]

I noticed that there were no X-spells being discussed as finishers. Would a couple Banefire help late game?

[Iranon]

Before Banefire becomes in any way interesting, you need 6 lands.
If you have 20 lands in a 60-card deck (high for Burn), you have an expected 6 lands after having drawn 18 cards, which corresponds to turn 10 or 11 (later if you scry away surplus lands with Magma Jet).

There are spells that help against running out of steam and are still applicable to your primary plan (killing by turn 4 with fire to the dome)... Pulse of the Forge for example.
The only x-spell I'd consider running is Rolling Earthquake and even that would need a strong metagame reason.

[(nameless one)]

Before Banefire becomes in any way interesting, you need 6 lands.
If you have 20 lands in a 60-card deck (high for Burn), you have an expected 6 lands after having drawn 18 cards, which corresponds to turn 10 or 11 (later if you scry away surplus lands with Magma Jet).

There are spells that help against running out of steam and are still applicable to your primary plan (killing by turn 4 with fire to the dome)... Pulse of the Forge for example.
The only x-spell I'd consider running is Rolling Earthquake and even that would need a strong metagame reason.

Cool, thanks for the clarification!

[DragoFireheart]

Here are some of the Rise of the Eldrazi cards that might be interesting to Burn players:


Flame Slash

It can't hit players so it would likely be a sideboard card, but the fact that it can blow up creatures with a 4-toughnesss body for one red and no other strings makes it seem like a great answer for annoying creatures like Rhox War Monk.


Goblin Arsonist

Could this replace or supplement Mogg Fanatic? You can't sac it at will, but it can do what fanatic used to be able to do: block and then deal damage to something before death.


Kiln Fiend

This guy is probably more sligh material than burn, but the fact that he can hit extremely hard if you cast a lot of instants/sorceries during your turn makes him something to consider.

[YrdBrd72803]

Howdy all. Long time reader, 1st time poster.
I play Legacy online on MTGO and got my set of PoPs last night to complete my burn deck. This is the list if anyones interested:

20 Mountain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Searing Blaze
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast

My concern now is building a good sideboard. Burn finished 2nd in the 1st Legacy Premiere event on MTGO with this sideboard:

4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Smash to Smithereens

The rest of the top 8 consisted of Dredge (1st overall), 2 Merfolk (1 mono-blue, 1 splashing green and white for Goyf and Stoneforge Mystic respectively), Landstill, Reanimator, Death & Taxes, and ANT.
Looking at several analyses of the format online so far, Goblins is by far the most popular deck. Zoo, D&T, Merfolk, and forms of Bant (Counter/Top and Survival) are popular as well. ANT, Reanimator, and Dredge also show up.
Id really appreciate any input.

[LordEvilTeaCup]

My concern now is building a good sideboard. Burn finished 2nd in the 1st Legacy Premiere event on MTGO with this sideboard:

4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Smash to Smithereens

The rest of the top 8 consisted of Dredge (1st overall), 2 Merfolk (1 mono-blue, 1 splashing green and white for Goyf and Stoneforge Mystic respectively), Landstill, Reanimator, Death & Taxes, and ANT.
Looking at several analyses of the format online so far, Goblins is by far the most popular deck. Zoo, D&T, Merfolk, and forms of Bant (Counter/Top and Survival) are popular as well. ANT, Reanimator, and Dredge also show up.
Id really appreciate any input.

Do you know the main deck list of the burn deck that placed 2nd?

[Combo Winter]

I accully think that playing isocron scepter version is decent because it forces people to make pllays that are normally terrible vs burn I i dont think it effects the ablity to kill by turn 4 and you can largley play around the main reason not to play scepter in pridemage by not showing it early vs pridemage decks. While it may apper to slow the deck down but its played in the sweeper spot I don't think that its a much slower play than flamebreak or vortex vs a combo. And the scepter plan requires a set of counters that play into regular burns plan so you can side them out at leave your opponents with dead artifact hate.

4 Lightning bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 price of progress
4 searingblaze
4 magma jet
4 fireblast
3 shard volley
4 scepter
4 lava spike
4 incinerate

3 barbarian ring
18 mountain

[YrdBrd72803]

Do you know the main deck list of the burn deck that placed 2nd?

Burn played by BootRus (2nd place) PE on 4/18/10

20 Mountain
4 Goblin Guide
4 Hellspark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Chain Lightning
4 Fireblast
3 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Rift Bolt
2 Shard Volley

Sideboard
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Pithing Needle
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Smash to Smithereens

[Puzzle]

Ravenous Trap is in the side of many burn lists here as pretty much the only hate against graveyards ; I disagree with that choice.
Burn is very tempo-orientated.
As such, any mana that you spend on casting hate cards has a chance to delay your kill by a turn, which can be the difference between winning and losing.
In burn, Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt and Faerie Macabre should be the only graveyard-hate considerations.

[Glorfindel]

Ehm ... Ravenous Trap costs just as much mana as Faerie Macabre or Leyline of the Void. I.e. zero mana. It still costs a card, though, but other hate cards do as well.

[Puzzle]

Ehm ... Ravenous Trap costs just as much mana as Faerie Macabre or Leyline of the Void. I.e. zero mana. It still costs a card, though, but other hate cards do as well.

I don't know how but I got stuck in my mind that it cost 1. Nevermind what I said then.

[YrdBrd72803]

So its pretty much agreed upon that approximately 4 slots should go to graveyard hate and they should cost 0 mana. That includes Ravenous Trap, Faerie Macabre, Leyline of the Void, and Tormods Crypt. Of these, I think Im going to count Leyline out. Its versatile, being good against ANY graveyard based deck, but we have no way to cast it and have to hope its drawn in the opening 7 or mull to it. Thats a little too inconsistent for my taste. Ravenous Trap is really only good against Dredge. I dont think Reanimator is ususally going to give you an opportunity to alternate cast Trap and if they do, they are packing FoW and Daze to protect themselves. But it doesnt have to be in the opener like Leyline and you can sit on it provided it doesnt get stripped with discard. If Reanimator has no precense, this is probably the best choice since Dredge is the graveyard based deck you really have to worry about racing. Online, Dredge and Reanimator show up in about the same frequency. So Im pretty much left with Crypt and the fae. We all know what Crypt does. We all know the weaknesses of Crypt. I think Im going to begin with the fae as my choice. Its useful against Dredge and Reanimator allowing you to pick off the most relevant cards and it cant be countered.
I see lots of Bant online (Counter-Top and Survival builds) so Im pretty sure I want 4 Sulfuric Vortex in the board as well.
My starting sideboard then:

4 Faerie Macabre
4 Sulfuric Vortex (also gives me something to swap with PoP against decks packing all or mostly basics)

Does anyone have any experience against Storm combo? The list from the PE i posted above played Mindbreak Trap out of the board. Is it enough? Sure, if you have if and they dont have a counter for it, you stop them from going off. But you have to have it in hand when they go off and its only 4 cards. The odds arent all that good. Does Pyrostatic Pillar work better since its not only hate for their combo but it actively lowers their life total?

[Sevryn]

I run 3 Sulfuric Vortex maindeck with the fourth in the board. Even if healing isn't relevant, 2 damage every upkeep after Vortex resolves is. The fact that it also proactively fights healing - aka the mechanic that if they use enough you will not be able to win the game ever. A resolved Rhox War Monk, for example, has to be dealt with immediately or the 3 life a turn becomes insurmountable. Vortex answers this as well as other random recurring life gain (e.g. jitte, finks, thopter-sword).

What do people think of Needle Drop? Paired with a bolt, Needle Drop is 2 cards for 4 damage and a card back. 2 mana for 4 damage is pretty reasonable, I mean, people have run Flame Rift. That's the same thing as needle drop except you take 4 damage to. Needle Drop is better than Incinerate in most cases.

[YrdBrd72803]

What do people think of Needle Drop? Paired with a bolt, Needle Drop is 2 cards for 4 damage and a card back. 2 mana for 4 damage is pretty reasonable, I mean, people have run Flame Rift. That's the same thing as needle drop except you take 4 damage to. Needle Drop is better than Incinerate in most cases.

I play Needle Drop in my pauper (all commons format) burn deck because its the only card that gives you any kind of draw/library manipulation. In Legacy where you have access to Magma Jet, play Magma Jet.

[The Wolf]

I was wondering if anyone had considered Lust for War as a sideboard card. This card seems win-win for burn decks. If your opponent wants to be attacking you, they will take at least 3 damage from this card before the game is over. If they want to be blocking, this card clears the way for your haste guys and deals them damage on top of it. It even deals the damage to them in their attack step before you get hit. This might be too cute, but it seems worth exploring.

Text:
Lust for War 2R
Enchant creature
Whenever enchanted creature becomes tapped, Lust for War deals 3 damage to that creature's controller.
Enchanted creature attacks each turn if able.

[slylie]

So its pretty much agreed upon that approximately 4 slots should go to graveyard hate and they should cost 0 mana. That includes Ravenous Trap, Faerie Macabre, Leyline of the Void, and Tormods Crypt. Of these, I think Im going to count Leyline out. Its versatile, being good against ANY graveyard based deck, but we have no way to cast it and have to hope its drawn in the opening 7 or mull to it. Thats a little too inconsistent for my taste. Ravenous Trap is really only good against Dredge. I dont think Reanimator is ususally going to give you an opportunity to alternate cast Trap and if they do, they are packing FoW and Daze to protect themselves. But it doesnt have to be in the opener like Leyline and you can sit on it provided it doesnt get stripped with discard. If Reanimator has no precense, this is probably the best choice since Dredge is the graveyard based deck you really have to worry about racing. Online, Dredge and Reanimator show up in about the same frequency. So Im pretty much left with Crypt and the fae. We all know what Crypt does. We all know the weaknesses of Crypt. I think Im going to begin with the fae as my choice. Its useful against Dredge and Reanimator allowing you to pick off the most relevant cards and it cant be countered.
I see lots of Bant online (Counter-Top and Survival builds) so Im pretty sure I want 4 Sulfuric Vortex in the board as well.
My starting sideboard then:

4 Faerie Macabre
4 Sulfuric Vortex (also gives me something to swap with PoP against decks packing all or mostly basics)

Does anyone have any experience against Storm combo? The list from the PE i posted above played Mindbreak Trap out of the board. Is it enough? Sure, if you have if and they dont have a counter for it, you stop them from going off. But you have to have it in hand when they go off and its only 4 cards. The odds arent all that good. Does Pyrostatic Pillar work better since its not only hate for their combo but it actively lowers their life total?

Mindbreak Trap seems ok vs ANT but a good player suspecting it can easily play around it, as they normally pack 2-6 discard spells or can just play the artifact mana one turn, pass and then cast ad nauseam the next, drawing into duress, ect ripping up your hand then tendrils for the win.

Pyrostatic pillar even at 2 mana could be a bit slow, duressed out of your hand before you can even cast it, ect.

If you want a card that you can 'set and forget' I would say Chalice of the Void. Just drop it for zero and they will have a hard time going off without answering it, while you burn their face as they dig for an answer or try to go off with rituals alone.

I agree Ravenous trap is too narrow as its good against dredge, but its going to be hard to 'cast' vs reanimator unless they careful study/reanimate same turn.. I've watched many reanimator players online and the play is usually end of your turn, entomb, untap, reanimate. Which gives you no window unless they also cracked a sacland in the same turn.

So, In my opinion going 2x relic and 2x crypt (4x crypt is much easier to play but making pithing needle and echoing truth worse if thats what they are brining in against your hate) would be best.

[YrdBrd72803]

Im not sure about this, but Ive seen some folks talk about using Faerie Macabres ability as an instant. Youre not casting it and the card doesnt give any specific requirements for when you can use its ability. Anyone know how that works?
Im wondering if packing sideboard cards is even worth it against ANT. Trap is great if you have multiples or they arent expecting it. But as slylie said, theyre usually packing discard and some counterspell protection. I think if I end up running any ANT hate, it wold be Pillar since that can really limit the effectiveness of the draw engine.
In my list, Im packing 4 Searing Blaze main because online, I usually have plenty of targets. Do yall think running a sweeper (Flamebreak or Volcanic Fallout) in addition in the board is worth it/necessary?