See post #813. Replace the 2 Karakas with 2 Plains. I only run them as an anti-Iona measure. As I've been trying to tell people, I don't think Mangara is worth running anyway.Originally Posted by (nameless one)
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Cool, I like the budget build.
The last time I was actually paying attention to this deck archetype, you guys were running Stonecloaker. That card is pretty good in protecting creatures and could be useful for ETB creatures (like Flickerwisp, Stoneforge Mystics, Kitchen Finks)
Why exactly is it not worth running anymore?
Also, is it worth running Kor Haven?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
You've succeeded at that fairly well; you're just facing disagreement by some. ;)
Stonecloaker is not run anymore because much of its awesome (yes, this is a noun now!) stemmed from combat damage on the stack. If you really opt for not running Mangara of Korondor, there's even less incentive for you to run it - it's an alternative way of getting the permanent-removal-engine going (along with Flickerwisp + Vial). Without stacking combat damage, you're often tempted to cast it to replace one of your crittery one by one. Stonecloaker used to give you card advantage before M10 rules, but today only conditionally prevents your opponent from gaining card advantage at best. We can do that with Mother of Runes as well. I still miss it sometimes, though, esp. its graveyard-removal side-effect.
Personally, I don't belive in CC4-creatures when your vial is best set to 3 counters, so Ranger of Eos is questionable imho.
I guess you'll just have to try it yourself, then. Of course, you need some fetch targets for it. Figure and Mom are good ones. I've been pretty happy with the Kor Duelist so far, too.
Btw, I think I'm going to replace Sword of Fire & Ice with Sword of Light & Shadow in my list. Surprisingly, the life gain and graveyard recursion generally seems more useful than the shock + cantrip.
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Would the equipment suit be good enough:
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Basilisk Collar
(I only have a single Jitte :( )
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
If you're running Stoneforge Mystic, I think that's perfectly OK. I'd be surprised if you actually tutored for Basilisk Collar even once though, it really seems sub-par for Legacy.
I haven't had problems with that list. The swords give protection against the more common re-animation targets, and basilisk collar allows our puny 1/1's like Mother of Runes to hold off goyfs, or you could just use it for a bit of additional lifegain.
I can see the appeal, actually. If you've got exactly 3 mana, Collar is a very attractive option.
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I've been having some trouble with the sideboard. I have absolutely no idea what to SB. Retribution of the Meek is a given, as is gravehate or Ethersworn Canonist. I'm still wondering if I should SB in anti-combo, or more anti-aggro.
The current SB is:
3x Retribtion of the Meek
3x Ethersworn Canonist
3x True Believer
3x Relic of Progenitus.
3x Something (aura of silence at this point in time, could be anything to be honest.)
I'm also wondering about the importance of Mangara. I rarely actually get the combo to work, so it ends up as a bad removal spell. I'm considering cutting it out in favor of changing some 3-ofs into 4-ofs to improve the consistency of the deck. Such as adding a 4th vial (I kept on drawing multiple vials when I needed answers), a 3rd Jötun Grunt/4th Serra Avenger, 4th Oblivion Ring or some similar things.
The Stoneforge Mystics have been great, and I believe they deserve a spot in the deck.
As a note: The lack of gravehate is largely due to the fact that I didn't actually run into many graveyard based decks in the events I've been at, and I doubt I'd ever have a good mathcup against Dredge.
Here's my current working list: http://pastebin.com/A4EtCb9e
I decided to move Mangara to even more of a backseat role, but I'm unsure if it should be there at all. I might remove it completely in favor of a 4th Flickerwisp and 4th Serra Angel, but I'm unsure if the deck is any good like that. Could someone else who is better at judging lists give me some feedback on it?
Last edited by Penguinizer; 03-14-2010 at 06:06 PM.
Hi guys, i would like to take DnT on 60+ people tournament and i really like new concept with Mothers and especially Mystics. Unfortunately I don't have enought time for serious testing, so i rely on you. Is Goldmeadow Harrier worth playing? My meta is very various (merfolks, goblins, elves, bant, survival, ninjas, ant, belcher, mba, t reshold, stax, rock, zoo, landstill, belcher, reanimator, dredge, aggro loam, dreadstill), but i expect only few zoo decks (3-4). What do you think about SotPC in sideboard? Its not miracle, but he is awesome in dredge matchup.
LANDS: [22]
4x Wasteland
1x Rishadan port
4x Karakas
0-2x Mishra's Factory - pretty good equipment bearer, but another wasteland target :/
11-13x Plains
CREATURES: [24]
4x Serra Avenger
3x Mangara
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Jotun Grunt
4x Flickerwisp
4-3x Mother of Runes
3-4x Harrier / Isamaru /whatever - i really dont know what to play on this slot
NONCREATURES: [14]
1x Umezawa
1x Sword of Fire/ice
1x Sword of Light/shadow
3x Oblivion Ring
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Aether vial
SB:
2x Silence
2x Mindberak Trap
3x Children of Korlis
3x Samurai of the Pale Curtain
3x Ethersworn Canonist
2x some Progenitus hate - retribution, meekstone or aven mindcensor
Why the inclusion of Goldmeadow Harrier now in the DT builds ? I know his a good utility creature but what is his role in the new DT ?
I've found that it helps us to either tap blockers or to reduce the opponents offensive capabilities by tapping one of their beatsticks repeatedly. As for the list I posted, I decided to cut one Mother of Runes for a 4th flickerwisp, but what should I take out to add a 3rd mangara, or should I just stick with 2? What about a 4th Serra Avenger instead?
In most lists, I would honestly suggest adding in the 4th Serra Avenger.
I decided that 3 Mother of Runes was enough, so I cut the 4th for a 4th Serra Avenger. With them, the rangers and the harriers, we should have enough ways to stop creatures.
Hey, I'm pretty new to Legacy, and have become a big fan of this deck, but I don't have much experience playing against combo decks like ANT. How would Children of Korlis save you from Tendrils?
It largely depends on how high they got their storm count. If they get more than 19, you're going to die anyways. I found that if you SB it, they'll always SB Deathmark, so it'll just get killed before being of use anyways.
Would Chanting on around their 5th-7th storm count hep, right before they cast Tendrils? I would imagine that it would be devastating for them.
That or just rely solely on Canonist.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
Chant doesn't stop the additional copies on the stack unless I'm mistaken. So you want to chant in response to Ad Nauseam.
As for anti-combo. I run Ethersworn Canonist, Runed Halo, and True Believer.
Most of these are also useful outside of other instances, and canonist and believer can be vialed in if the game drags on. The only problem with these is that they all need 2 mana, so I can't stop a turn 1 combo.
SB wise, I'm seriously considering stealing SB ideas from UW Tempo and running 3x Enlightened Tutor with 2x Canonist, a single crypt, a single relic, etc.
Last edited by Penguinizer; 03-16-2010 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Whoopsie, remembered the name wrong.
Funny you should mention that, Penguinizer. A friend of mine has been playing with the following sb, and he says it has served him well.
3 Children of Korlis
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Runed Halo
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
He is not even using Orim's Chant anymore. The deal is that on turn 1 you don't want to be holding some combination of Children, Chant, and Enlightened Tutor if you can avoid it. And Canonists and Halos come down on turn 2 off the tutor, so your mana is pretty tied up. I don't know if that idea holds water, but it sounds reasonable.
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Has anyone tried Honor of the Pure on this deck?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
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