How Stupid Burn became Smart

[MakeMyDay]

Hello everybody,

I want to know if it is possible to play a sort of burn in Legacy ...
My stupid burn deck was a little boring and didn't win like it was supposed to. I looked for some new cards and choose to splash black! Why's that? There are four really good reasons:

1. Bloodchief Ascension
I have never seens this card in any other decks before and I think people just have never experienced (YET) how mean this little one mana enchantment can be! With all my cheap fire spells i have reached the three counter in notime. It is such an advantage that almost all decks loose if they can't get rid of it.
He plays a Brainstorm? Thank You here are you two damage ...
I burn down a smaller creature ... there you go,two damage again and Fetchlands for three damage ain't too hot anymore!
As you can see Bloodchief Ascension can be a pain in the ass.

2. Dark Confidant
Most of the spells only cost one. I also play a lot of lands. With Confidant on the table my deck just takes off shooting more damage spells that everybody can handle.

3. [B]Terminate[/B
Nowadys most of the creatures can get big very soon. There have been a lot of Tamogoyfs beating on me wich I never could burn down with fire. Terminate is a decent fast answer for thoose beats.

4. Small Pox
Here we can find many functions in ony one card. It's nice to get rid of a creature that can be target or has protection. Sometimes the loss of one land ruins the other guys mana base. My deck happens to allways be able to spare a land as it CAN operate with two or even one land. And now, think about it: having Bloodchief Ascension with three counters on it and throwing small pox out there it deals 7 damage for just BB! I first I started with the "big" Pox but I couldn't get the three BBB to play it.

Thats for now, here is my list:

MANA:
4 Badlands
3 Dragonskull Summit
4 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain

Spells:
4 Shock
4 Seal of Fire
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightening
4 Lightening Bold
4 Browbeat
4 Wasteland

The Black Additions:
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Dark Confident
3 Terminate
4 Small Pox


I don't have the Sideboard set up yet.
I see wasteland as a spell because most of the time I am not able to use it for mana as all my spells need R or B.

So please tell me what you think about the Idea of Bloodchief Ascension and it's use.
Also if you have an advise to change Shock and the Seal of Fire for some other one Mana damage Spells, please let me know. I belive that hand removal like Duress just slows down everything because it does no damage to get the counters for
Bloodchief Ascension. Innocent Blood seemed nice at the beginning, but it sucked when I had a Confidant out and I already use Small Pox

MakeMyDay

[Cthuloo]

I put togheter the following deck some week after Zendikar came out. I didn't test it a lot, but it was doing decently, acting like a B/R sligh even if ascension wasn't on the table.

4 Sarcomancy
4 Carnophage
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
7 Swamp
1 Mountain

The 8 2/2 for are definitely solid, they can charge ascension pretty quickly and still be annoying. Goblin Guide can be a good option in these slots, too. I didn't put much effort in trying to abuse the ascension, it's simply unnecessary. Wastelands and Hymns are strong cards without an ascension, so they were my choice in this sector; the opponent will do the rest of the job by fetching, cantripping, losing creatures to our burn, etc.

I don't have a complete grasp of the matchups,but generally the deck behaves well against other aggro and aggrocontrol (of course counterbalance is a huge problem). On the other hand, stax and combo are probably going to be though to beat.

[ryO!]

while i really like the idea of confident/pox/terminate.
Blood chief seems a way too slow.
shock & seal of fire are just terrible or well too old.
wasteland is useless because as u ve even said you really need colored land.
fireblast is a missing bomb !
magma jet is too good especially with confident.

i d go for smth like this
4 Badlands
4 shockland B/R
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Red fetch
6 Mountain

Creature:
2 Hellspark Elemental
4 Goblin guide

Spells:
4 Fireblast
4 Magma jet
4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightening
4 Lightening Bolt
4 Incinerate

The Black Additions:
4 Dark Confident
3 Terminate
4 Small Pox

[makochman]

Needs to lose the Shocks and Seals of Fire IMHO. You should probably play more creatures, because if you only play Dark Confidant, he will invariably die to removal before you know it. You could use Hellspark Elemental and Keldon Marauders, possibly also Goblin Guide.

Also you ought to diversify the costs of your spells more, so that you don't just lose when they play a Chalice of the Void at 1.

[rufus]

Part of what makes Burn good is that it's stupid, and thus resistant to a lot of counter tactics. When you add critters and fanciness it starts getting more reach, and faster, but also more fragile.

[jrsthethird]

I put togheter the following deck some week after Zendikar came out. I didn't test it a lot, but it was doing decently, acting like a B/R sligh even if ascension wasn't on the table.

4 Sarcomancy
4 Carnophage
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Dark Confidant
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Bloodchief Ascension
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Badlands
7 Swamp
1 Mountain

The 8 2/2 for are definitely solid, they can charge ascension pretty quickly and still be annoying. Goblin Guide can be a good option in these slots, too. I didn't put much effort in trying to abuse the ascension, it's simply unnecessary. Wastelands and Hymns are strong cards without an ascension, so they were my choice in this sector; the opponent will do the rest of the job by fetching, cantripping, losing creatures to our burn, etc.

I don't have a complete grasp of the matchups,but generally the deck behaves well against other aggro and aggrocontrol (of course counterbalance is a huge problem). On the other hand, stax and combo are probably going to be though to beat.

Why wouldn't you runVampire Lacerator? He's another 2/2 for B and he's better than the others.

[bleuisforwhimps]

1)Dont't play creatures,don't play artefacts,don't play enchantments;this makes swords, path, krosan grip,pernicious deed, EE,wrath,etc... useless, thus giving you virtual CA.
2)Don't burn critters, throw everything to the face.
3)Search the forum, there is a thread for burn.

[Holiday]

If you're running Rb burn how about Blightning? Provides Card Advantage and 3 dmg. I think it see's a lot of play in Standard.

[Cthuloo]

Why wouldn't you runVampire Lacerator? He's another 2/2 for B and he's better than the others.

I think that 8 of them is enough: basically you want to have at least one in your opening seven, but don't want to see 4+ of them during the course of the game. Of course there's a little difference between the possible choices, so it's partially up to personal taste. I like Carnophage for the possibility to "turn it off" exactly when I want and for the small synergy with sarcomancy (if they remove your token, you still have a zombie).

[(nameless one)]

I seriously think Burst Lightning is way better than Shock.

I have a feeling that at the end of the day, this could be a Red Death reincarnation. Just dont splash green or it will just become Eva Green.

[menace13]

Rift Bolt is missing from your list, I think it is better than Shock and esp Seal-pumps goyfs-.
Your list almost looks like Red Death is what you were trying to play(deckcheck search for it), Ascension also couples well with discard when active.

[MakeMyDay]

Thank YOU bleuisforwhimps

the way you expalined to play burn is just what I was trying to do with my deck ... I understand that shock and the sear are a little weak, theese are the only cards that you would cut to might play a creature (other than confident, he's just too good)


4 Bloodchief Ascension seem slow at the beginning, but there are ment for the later on in the game when I used most of my burn.

4 Wasteland is useless to get mana from, that is true. Like I said, I don't get Mana I use them what they are for, as manascrew. Plus the Wastelands become insane when you got the Blood Ascension working. No Mana Land destruction that does two damage! Yay

The deck with all the creatures looks good, it might even win more games when playing against decks with only a few creatures.

[bleuisforwhimps]

4 Fireblast
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
3 Volcanic Fallout/flamebreak ?
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Fork
2 Searing Blaze

18 Mountain

This is my approach to burn, if you want to go B/R, here's an example http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=33718

[TnA_Will]

4 Fireblast
4 Incinerate
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Price of Progress
3 Volcanic Fallout/flamebreak ?
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Fork
2 Searing Blaze

18 Mountain

I have a friend that ran a simular list to 28th at Indy a few weeks ago. He went with the 3 flamebreaks over fall out and he runs 4x mogg fanatic(incase dredge comes around) over 2x fork 2x searing blaze. His board had magus of the moons/blood moons, ensaring bridge(might have been meekstone but I'm pretty sure it was ensaring bridge), sulfuric vortex, shattering spree's,etc....

Seemed to do quite well against most of the format, only thing that gave him problems was rox war monk unless he hit a vortex quickly.

[bleuisforwhimps]

4 fanatics are an option but i would never cut the 2 forks i think because fork+fireblast is a killer.About the warmonk,yeah he's though, probably the only creature you should burn but on the play they could be dead before he attacks, unless they have a first turn hierarch...

[Mystical_Jackass]

I really think Hideous End should be in the deck then, unless needed to side out.

It destroys and provides damage... I mean, this is Burn and every card has to have the potential to inflict damage, you shouldn't have breathing turns for your opponent ever imo where you just terminate a creature and pass. More importantly, works with ascension as your finisher.

I'd say SB terminate, if you really really must. But it's burn... you're trying to race them either way

[Ziveeman]

Bloodchief blows.

I've been testing a Sligh version with Bloodchief and Confidant recently and there are several problems with it.

1) With the amount of burn you have, by the time Bloodchief is active, your opponent is already half dead. For example, T1 Bloodchief. T2 Chain, end of their turn, Bolt. T3 Seal of Fire. Once Bloodchief is activated, they're already at 12 life (probably less due to fetchlands). From there, you only need to deal 8 damage (Fireblast seals the deal)...in my opinion, running a card that will only work for the last 8 points of life is pretty useless.

2) Terrible topdeck. Not only does it not do anything, it doesn't do anything for at least 3 more turns.

99% of the time it was just a win-more card. The games I won were the game where I never drew it.

Perhaps though it could work in a regular burn strategy. Once again, I only played it in Sligh so it could operate differently in pure burn, but I doubt it would be too much different. Just contributing my opinion with the card.

[Poron]

the best way to abuse of Bloodchief Ascension is in a mill deck

[Mikeleroi]

Maybe you should check this deck:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=32585