[Deck] UW Tempo

[Piceli89]

Stifle is not recommended in this deck, since you want them to have more lands than you to make Wayfarer work as a crazy thinning and tutoring-machine that takes Wastelands and lands. Stifle, in general, at least IMO, is a card on the strong downrise, since it's usual a terrible topdeck lately and can be easily circumvent by good players. The point is that "you play Stifle despites not playing it": everyone expects from a deck packing wasteland and a thing called Wayfarer that your strategy is heavily relying on mana-denial, so they stay open, and not crack their fetches,allowing you to take a bit of time.


@Forbiddian: how do you fight a resolved Grim Lavamancer from Zoo on the draw, if you don't manage to find Stp and you don't have the Fow? It basically screws your tempo plan by either removing Mother before becoming active, and SFM before being able to put down Jittes. It's also really bad for the fatties since it forces you most o the time to not block Apes and Nacatls with your fatties because you know that they will die because of him. The fact that it's easily abused many times and chains well with Bolts , Helixes and such, furthermore, makes BFTender not that great defense against him.
I find him to be the greatest threat Zoo can offer, and it's very difficult to be fought. I even thought to put some Rule of that enchantment that costs 1W and gives all creatures Pro:red, despites knowing that's pretty much a terrible card which would be difficult to find if not as a 3-ofs or without Enlightened tutorss (which are lame to be sided in against Zoo).
Suggestions?

[Forbiddian]

@Forbiddian: how do you fight a resolved Grim Lavamancer from Zoo on the draw, if you don't manage to find Stp and you don't have the Fow? It basically screws your tempo plan by either removing Mother before becoming active, and SFM before being able to put down Jittes.

I mean, you said it: you'll want to draw an answer to Grim Lavamancer. Grim from the play off of a fetchland is pretty hard to handle since there aren't very many good answers.

Mother of Runes will counter the Grim if he didn't play a fetchland, and then Vial can also be a strong answer. But an active Grim gives your opponent many favorable combat interactions.


I also board in the one to two Relic of Progenitus in my sideboard.

[pi4meterftw]

So I have a question for the remaining goyf skeptics, which I know exist.

Why isn't the merfolk thread being polluted with suggestions of goyf? Or more importantly, why is merfolk not decidedly strictly better with goyf than without? Is it only the lord pumps? We have synergies too, and almost certainly better than the synergies offered in merfolk where it encourages crazy over-extending, among other things.

[bakofried]

Actually, haven't there been a few Ug Merfolk lists that splash for 'Goyf?

[RexFTW]

Merefolk is better with goyf. I play it. People dont play merefolk goyf because merefolk is the best 'budget' deck in the tier 1. Adding goyf adds over $500 to the deck. (fetches, top islands, goyfs). Considering the maindeck only costs about $200 before force went way up (force mutavault vial) this increasing the cost of the deck by 4.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Merefolk is better with goyf. I play it. People dont play merefolk goyf because merefolk is the best 'budget' deck in the tier 1. Adding goyf adds over $500 to the deck. (fetches, top islands, goyfs). Considering the maindeck only costs about $200 before force went way up (force mutavault vial) this increasing the cost of the deck by 4.

I'd say this is very debatable. Mono blue merfolk is much better in certain situations, whereas having a random goyf is better in others. In general I like mono blue because you are completely resilient to almost every form of land hate (very relevant in many situations), and because putting in any creatures that aren't synergistic with your other creatures is bad because merfolk on their own aren't powerful. Kira is the only exception I've ever found to be worth it. Merrow Reejery taps down blockers so you can alpha strike, but only if you can cast a merfolk. He untaps vial to play a 3 lord drop turn, but again, only if you have the merfolk.

The real idea is to play either a Techy creature like Silvergil or Cursecatcher, or a Lord, making all of your creatures better. Goyf does nothing of this, except for being huge and harder to kill. He doesn't have evasion like the rest of the folk. Any creature slot takes away from a control slot, since all creatures completely synergize (made up word) with the rest.

[Nessaja]

Why isn't the merfolk thread being polluted with suggestions of goyf? Or more importantly, why is merfolk not decidedly strictly better with goyf than without? Is it only the lord pumps? We have synergies too, and almost certainly better than the synergies offered in merfolk where it encourages crazy over-extending, among other things.

I don't think it was going to be brought up again. But since you specifically ask:

1. It is brought up a lot, even for Goblins it was brought up. It's basically a question that every deck needs to ask its self.
2. The changes made to Merfolk are much bigger then the needed changes for nogoyf. Nogoyf already plays fetches and would practically only need to add tropical island/savannah in order to support Goyf.

[huygee]

So I have a question for the remaining goyf skeptics, which I know exist.

Why isn't the merfolk thread being polluted with suggestions of goyf? Or more importantly, why is merfolk not decidedly strictly better with goyf than without? Is it only the lord pumps? We have synergies too, and almost certainly better than the synergies offered in merfolk where it encourages crazy over-extending, among other things.

I asked a few posts ago if anybody else was having as much trouble playing UW vs. merfolk w/goyf + jitte as me. Goyf + jitte definitely improves merfolk's game vs. UW in my experience, since now we have to answer goyfs on top of lords, and they can legend rule away our long-term plan for board control. It doesn't help that standstill and vial/jitte are involved, so goyf hits 4/5 or 5/6 without much effort. Futhermore, we can't even punish them for overextending (well, at least I can't since I don't run EE). This is the main reason I'm considering switching back to a build with a 3rd vial + 3rd grunt. Otherwise, it seems extremely difficult to keep up.

p.s. I know that wasn't the point of your post. I just wanted someone to answer my original question. :)

[Citrus-God]

I mean, you said it: you'll want to draw an answer to Grim Lavamancer. Grim from the play off of a fetchland is pretty hard to handle since there aren't very many good answers.

Mother of Runes will counter the Grim if he didn't play a fetchland, and then Vial can also be a strong answer. But an active Grim gives your opponent many favorable combat interactions.


I also board in the one to two Relic of Progenitus in my sideboard.

Relics seem like a pretty lame way to fight off one of the best control cards against our deck.

Have you guys tested Wall of Omens yet against Zoo? It can block Goyfs, Nacatls and Pridemages all day while we save Swords as a primary target against Mancer. It also helps us dig for the Swords too.... although, just cantriping off blind seems like an ineffective way to combat Zoo. It probably might end up being the same problem Perimeter Captains posed.

[Tinefol]

Went 3-1 today
R1. 2-0 vs Affinity. Seriously, Affinity sucks. I just can't see it winning games against anything :/
R2. 2-0 MonoG Progenitus Survival. Sweet revenge.
R3. 1-2 Berserk Stompy. I seriously punt game3 and lose because of it. Deserved it for my stupidity.
R4. 2-0 Merfolk.

Another guy from my area went 4-0 with the deck. It was his first tournament with it. He's highly accustomed with fish strategies and closely follows this thread. He might write a quick report.

[Forbiddian]

[Merfolk has] standstill and vial/jitte... so goyf hits 4/5 or 5/6 without much effort.

I've actually found Merfolk has the smallest goyfs of any deck. They don't run any Sorceries and to get any Enchantments or Artifacts into the yard requires UW Tempo's intervention. It's also very rare for creatures to go to the sin bin early, since we don't suicide attack or chump block early, we use Swords, and they don't have removal.

UG Merfolk is the matchup where I'd say Goyf is the smallest. He's routinely 1/2 until turn 4+, and only off of a Vial getting Forced can he even grow to 3/4. Though I haven't played ever (to the best of my knowledge) against UG Merfolk with more than 2 Jittes, so I'm not really sure.

More Jittes do make your life tougher, but imx, Goyfs make your life easier since they have a flimsy manabase and can feel the wrath of the mana fuck (instead of just blanking their wastelands and killing their mutavaults).

Went 3-1 today
R1. 2-0 vs Affinity. Seriously, Affinity sucks. I just can't see it winning games against anything :/
R2. 2-0 MonoG Progenitus Survival. Sweet revenge.
R3. 1-2 Berserk Stompy. I seriously punt game3 and lose because of it. Deserved it for my stupidity.
R4. 2-0 Merfolk.

Another guy from my area went 4-0 with the deck. It was his first tournament with it. He's highly accustomed with fish strategies and closely follows this thread. He might write a quick report.

Nice job, ask if you can get the guy to post a little thing each week (or at least write it down). It'd really help us to have another person from whom we can get all the data. Also, if you have two UW Tempo players going 3-1 or 4-0 most weeks, it's only a matter of time before my dream can come true


By the way, not to dwell on it, since 3-1 is a damn good finish, but what was the mistake against Berserk Stompy? Did you forget to board in Canonist? (<-- I thought I was a genius for thinking of this, no idea how many other people thought of it, though).

EDIT: Or maybe you boarded in Canonist, but then swung with it and he had the Zerk and then he came back Pump Pump, Zerk Zerk, gfg. Those are just two things I thought of, though they seem pretty unlikely that they specifically happened to you.

[Tinefol]

I tapped out for jitte, where as I could left mana open for ETutor, Tutor eot, and clear the board with EE@2. I didn't have enough mana to tutor in upkeep and died to double 7/5 Kavu Predators. I didn't even need that jitte. I also have drawn a ton of crap (like 2 jittes, pitchless FoW, 4 lands, all that in hand, but that's irrelevant to how badly I punted).

[frenchy-man]

Hey guys am I the only one that have problem with opening hand ? I think the deck needs one more land, cause I am often forced to mulligan because of no lands or only waste.

So I think I would probably cut one fathom seer to get another plain.

I will probably play the deck in tournament soon... just a matter of time. And I'll tell you my results.

[Nelis]

This may sound silly but I always have a surplus of Jittes (I'm running 2). Too often I have a Jitte in play and a Jitte in hand. Does this happen to you guys a lot? I'm inclined to exchange one Jitte for another equipment, probably a Trusty Machette of even a Basilisk Collar.

EDIT:
Also a lot of times I have a Force of Will in hand without another blue card. And if I have its often a Fathom Seer which makes me choose between playing it and hoping i draw another blue card (which never happens) or keep it in hand to pitch to Fow. Is it not better to put in a 4th daze and remove Fow 4?

[pi4meterftw]

Okay, I'm hoping that after the tournament, you'll see why Matt and I do not make the changes you suggested. (In fact, we have justified explicitly previously in the thread.)

However, if you go unpunished, we do get to chalk up more victories, so it's unclear which one would be more rewarding. The changes you suggested are horrible, unless they're being made for budget reasons.

EDIT: As a general question, have people at your local tournaments learned to bring an extra pair of pants in case they shit themselves when you drop weathered wayfarer? Or are they still like: Weathered wayfarer is bad lolololol I won't waste removal on it, yeah!

[alderon666]

This may sound silly but I always have a surplus of Jittes (I'm running 2). Too often I have a Jitte in play and a Jitte in hand. Does this happen to you guys a lot? I'm inclined to exchange one Jitte for another equipment, probably a Trusty Machette of even a Basilisk Collar.

EDIT:
Also a lot of times I have a Force of Will in hand without another blue card. And if I have its often a Fathom Seer which makes me choose between playing it and hoping i draw another blue card (which never happens) or keep it in hand to pitch to Fow. Is it not better to put in a 4th daze and remove Fow 4?

If you were to run a second peice of equipament =/= than Jitte it'd probably be Sword of Fire and Ice. It pumps your guy, thashes merfolk and goblins, fastens your clock and nets you cards. Coming of the Mystic it's the same mana (1W) and the equip cost is the same as the Jitte.

But in my opinion 2x Jitte is all you need. Once you have it in play with any creature basically you're winning and it gets destroyed/countered enough to warrant the second copy. While SoFI is cute, Jitte just does everything better. Kills stuff, gains life, makes huge blockers and speeds up your clock like a champ.

[Julian23]

I was just wondering (because I will most likely face the deck pretty soon) how you guys estimate the Lands.dec matchup to be like? Is Wastelanding them every turn enough?

[JohnnyCage]

So I too have been finding the wrong side of drawing jittes. So I have been testing...bear with me... grafted wargear...it has actually been pretty effective. It turns our no clocks into 4/3 and has been giving me the ability to actually end the game. I didn't drop any jittes just added the gear over one sphinx for now for testing purposes.

[pi4meterftw]

So I too have been finding the wrong side of drawing jittes. So I have been testing...bear with me... grafted wargear...it has actually been pretty effective. It turns our no clocks into 4/3 and has been giving me the ability to actually end the game. I didn't drop any jittes just added the gear over one sphinx for now for testing purposes.

You should not be running 5 equipment. I, too, had considered wargear, but then I noticed that it gets absolutely owned by removal, such as QPM.

[kremenchugskiy]

Went 3-1 today
Another guy from my area went 4-0 with the deck. It was his first tournament with it. He's highly accustomed with fish strategies and closely follows this thread. He might write a quick report.

Actually, that was me who went 4-0. I am rather experienced in playing fish decks, and I was happy to try out UW Tempo, as it seems a very solid deck to me. I would have continued to play merfolk or my favorie mono-U faeries deck, but metagame in Moscow is very unfriendly to the firsst deck and the latter one has big problem -- Stoneforge Mystic, which is very, very popular in Russia right now.

So, back to tournament. I played pretty much standart list (version without Vexing Sphinxes, but with 3 vial (actually, I don't get the point of playing with 2 vial, at leat 3 or 0), 3 spell pierces and 4 wastelands, totally 61 card, that's my personal point).
Sideboard:
2 tutor
2 aura
3 gravehate (crypt, relic, wheel)
1 meekstone (reanimator is not a big issue in Moscow, we have only a couple of decks, and I am sure that I can outplay these people, but just in case I play meekstone, I suppose it i very strong against reanimator and occasionaly can win games with deck running mongoose and goyf)
1 canonist
1 pithing needle
1 runed halo (combo doesn't see a lot of play in our field, so currently I am just trying these cards. I totally agree that thorn is very stong, but as comboes are almost absent in Moscow, i try to play with something more versatile). possible cards for including also contain aura flux, energy flux, oblivion ring, engineered explosives, etc.
2 wing shards (I see this card as a very storng removal against any swarm deck (incl. zoo), it is the best removal in mirror games, it can be good against reanimator and akroma in DS).
2 hibernation (metagame call, we have some monoG elves, stompies and enchantresses).

2:0 against BGW fish (first game i daze his vial, and he is stacked with 1 land for several turns, second game he mulls to 5, has a confidant, which I can't remove for 3-4 turns, but wayfarer + wastelands own him).
2:0 against RGW Survival (i don't let survivals resolve, mom really shined, as I chumped several turns goyf with a jitte)
2:0 against Burn (quite easy as soon as you get jitte online, but can be tricky if he manages to ruin your jitte).
2:0 against bersersk stompy (first game I forced berserk #2, which was critical, second i have jitte + hibernation + wing shards for backup).

I found the deck to be very strong and capable of winning games without piloting it :)

I think I would try to play 3 Stoneforge Mystic, as I was always happy to see jitte online as soon as possible in many matches. Surely I will post my reports here.

Next weekend me and Tinefol would play St. Petersburg Open (about 50-60 players are expected), so, if nothing extraordinary will happen, we both will go with UW Tempo.