[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[bakofried]

This might be slightly off-topic, but how do you keep track of piles? Like 10 across, 4 down, or something like that? Just wondering, because I'm having a bit of trouble keeping it all in hand.

[Digital Devil]

My first game with Dredge, I kept three separate piles of cards. One with useless cards (say, lands, Careful Study), the other with dredgers, Bridges, Therapies, and another pile for the RFG zone. Then I realised it would be better to spread the cards from left to right and from up to down, something like this:

[LANDS] ---- [CREATURE][CREATURE] --- [RFG]
==============================> [DECK]
>=============================>
>===>...

But even then, I'm in trouble too, when it comes to 40+ cards in my graveyard, so, I wonder if there's an alternative manner to make cards visibile to both players and not invade nearby people's table. Someone posted a picture in the previous pages, but that was a bit confusing.

[Dredgehammer]

I find it best to keep it in one, straight up pile (like an upside-down deck), and always after dredging offer it to my opponent to look through. As a bonus, you're opponents might make mistakes when they don't remember your whole graveyard. Not really cheating, but they can't demand you to eat up half a table to have all your cards visible.

[bakofried]

I thought graveyard order isn't allowed to be changed?

[fyrisen]

I thought graveyard order isn't allowed to be changed?

It actually is now due to a recent rule change. Well not really recent but anyway it's ok in, Vintage, Legacy and Extended(?). But not in Standard.

[Anusien]

You can reorder your graveyard in formats without graveyard-order-matters cards. So you can reorder your graveyard in Standard and Extended but not in Legacy or Vintage.

[drawer]

The best way I've found to maintain graveyard order and make all cards visible is a fairly simple process:

When you dredge, count the cards one by one in a face down pile, then flip it over and lay out each card in your graveyard with the edge of the card lining up with the casting cost of the previous one. I keep my library on the right side so my graveyard starts below my library and builds from right to left, once I hit the edge of my playspace I start a new row. This method allows you to identify every card in your graveyard easily and keeps everything visible.

[bakofried]

Here's a SB i'm thinking of:
4 Unmask
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Ancestor's Chosen
1 Terastodon
1 Ray of Revelation
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

[Joon]

Are you guys that impressed by Unmask? I'm trying to fit it in but all other Sideboard options seem to be better to me.

As a reference, here is my current Maindeck and Sideboard.

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Tarnished Citadel
4 Cephalid Coliseum

4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe

4 Golgari Thug
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp

4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
1 Iona

4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return

4 Breakthrough
3 Careful Study

SB
4 Ancient Grudge (as Crypt/Relic are the most common hate against us, I want a Playset of these)
4 Chain of Vapor (Leyline is teh sux, in addition it is the most flexible anti-hate card and useful against Reanimator's Archon, against we scoop otherwise)
4 Firestorm (uncounterable Discardoutlet against Merfolk plus it kills pretty much against Zoo, Merfolk and other Tribes/Aggroish decks)
1 Iona (against ANT and Mono colored decks you want 2)
1 Terastodon
1 undecided Slot, from time to time it is 1 Ray of Revelation, sometimes it's also an Ancestor's Chosen

I could see me cutting 1 Firestorm (as you only need one each game you board it in) for 1 Unmask and placing another copy of it in the flexible spot. But then I'm still missing at least one slot to play Unmasks effectively.

As the mainboard is pretty much written in stone with some minor changes like +1 land or +1 Study/Darkblast the most interesting part of the deck is the sideboard.

Please share your thoughts.

[Anusien]

If you run a maindeck dedicated Dread Return target, it should either be Angel of Despair or Terastodon. Terastodon gets you out of tough maindeck situations against decks like Stax and Enchantress and Lands. Angel of Despair beats the Blazing Archon plan from Reanimator. These cards are good when you're behind; Iona and FKZ are only good when you're ahead.

[bakofried]

Eh, I just thought it would be a good form of hate, as I can expect a decent amount of combo in my meta.

[Arne]

If you run a maindeck dedicated Dread Return target, it should either be Angel of Despair or Terastodon. Terastodon gets you out of tough maindeck situations against decks like Stax and Enchantress and Lands. Angel of Despair beats the Blazing Archon plan from Reanimator. These cards are good when you're behind; Iona and FKZ are only good when you're ahead.

I find Iona to be an amazing DR target. It beats the mirror (black) and has been an Oops-I-Win card a couple of times. Even when you're behind it can stall your opponent (amazing blocker) and buy you a couple of turns to win eventually.

As for Terastodon. I haven't tested the card, but isn't Woodfall Primus a better choice. I mean, he doesn't give your opponent the tokens and can be used for therapy. I'm just asking, don't know if it would be the better choice.

cheers,

[Wargoos]

I find Iona to be an amazing DR target. It beats the mirror (black) and has been an Oops-I-Win card a couple of times. Even when you're behind it can stall your opponent (amazing blocker) and buy you a couple of turns to win eventually.

As for Terastodon. I haven't tested the card, but isn't Woodfall Primus a better choice. I mean, he doesn't give your opponent the tokens and can be used for therapy. I'm just asking, don't know if it would be the better choice.

cheers,

9 + 3 + 3 +3 possible power with one card is great.
Getting the possibilty to blow shit of the opponent in the process is awesome too.

[Anusien]

If you need to kill multiple permanents, Terastodon does it much better.

Iona is pretty good in the combo matchup, but it seems mostly that it's only good when you're already ahead. I wonder if Terastodon kill your lands is as good as Iona at racing combo.

[e=mc^2]

Iona naming black does not really need to race. I don't know how many answers they can wish for, but it is pretty good against ANT.

[1maarten1]

Ok i'll share my thoughts :)!

First off: The storm combo (ANT) matchup is bad.

Iona vs storm: When she comes into play, you will have to call blue since if you call black they will just Mystical tutor into Chain of vapor and bounce it. And when you dont call black they will just go off without noticing her. In such a situation I would much rather have a terastodon to blow up all of their lands, which buys me more time to maybe get a horde of zombie and play a FKZ to try to race.

I dont play any MD DR targets (except troll) and I have never regret it. Also if you manage to pump out a 20/20 troll fast against combo, you might have a very small chance of winning. But most of the time, they will just go off before you DR anything or do it the turn after. I dont play Iona MD or SB, and I havent found myself missing it. I did test it, but I end up cutting it since I never found it nessecary, I now play a extra land over a random MD DR target.

~Maarten

[Dredgehammer]

Iona naming Black will buy you a couple of turns or win the game, depending on whether or not they play Chain of Vapor MD or side it in against you. Also, against slower versions like DDANT or NLS if they're on the draw you can easily be quicker than them.

[SlopeeJ]

Don't underestimate the elephant, its hard for any deck to come back with no lands. Or at least it buys you turns, esp with cabal therapies.

[Adan]

I find it best to keep it in one, straight up pile (like an upside-down deck), and always after dredging offer it to my opponent to look through. As a bonus, you're opponents might make mistakes when they don't remember your whole graveyard. Not really cheating, but they can't demand you to eat up half a table to have all your cards visible.

However, you should do it for the sake of clarity. If you miscount on Bridges or Bloodghasts, you will be annoyed all day long.

I have goldfished my Vintage Dredge and taken a picture to give you the idea how you could (and maybe should) do it:
http://img175.imageshack.us/content_...pg&via=mupload

The zones can be figured out quite easily I guess.

[Dredgehammer]

That seems like a reasonable way to have your graveyard visible, but it does consume a lot of space.

But why Bloodghast? Ichorid is infinitely superior.