@Amon Amarth: Thanks man, I want to find room for the second SGC but going down too 2 Thoughtseize seems just weak.
@Nelis: Stronghold is just so strong I can't imagine not playing it, unless you run Wastelands. 2x Swamp has never really caused me a problem, but it would be smart to go down to 1 since it could potentially be a problem, but I haven't seen that yet. 22 Feels right, but play what you are comfortable with, if you think you need 23 then play 23, this is why I play no Wastelands and mostly basics, to avoid mana problems.
@ScatmanX: I don't advocate not playing Wasteland but I wanted to build the most rock solid manabase that I could get. I see Goblins win and lose a LOT of games just simply based on Wastelands. Color screw and/or Wasteland may be your 3rd land, you kill the opponents and don't draw another. I realize the game plan and acknowledge most people want Wastelands which is fine, but I want to make the deck as consistent as possible and aviod occassional losses to itself. True Wasteland wins a lot of games, but it also loses a lot of games. Probably more wins than losses, but my goal is to make my deck work like a machine everytime and aviod any kind of anamoly along the way. I don't think its wrong either way someone chooses to play the deck, in Mono-Red I would absolutely run it, but in 2-3 colors it can get iffy, and it allows me to play more basics and thus makes me even less vulnerable to an opponent's attack on my manabase.
A few of the card choices may seem awkward. The 3x Thoughtseize most likely stands out. I mainly run them because I want 10-11 1-drops in the deck so I always have something to do on the first turn. For a while I was considering the 2x Fanatic and the second SGC but I just find Fanatic worthless. I can't think of a time other than turn 1 I want Fanatic, and even then, he becomes more and more worthless as the game goes on. Thoughtseize helps out against basically everything but the mirror and is seldom a dead draw before turn 7. Late game Fanatic and Thoughtseize seem equally awful, so that seems a wash. For what its worth, Thoughtseize usually shows up in the first 1-3 turns and always did something useful. It just seems the most versatile 1-drop that I can think of. There are certainly times where I would like to go +1 Weirding and +2 Bolt though.
Instigator is ... I don't really like it. Personal preference, when he connects he is bad ass, but it just seems like another worthless weenie that Zoo is going to stomp all over. If it works for you absolutely play it, but Instigator seems very situational to me and dependent on board position. And when you draw him mid to late game .. its just another weak Goblin, this is my take on it, it seems more win-more too me.
Volrath's Stronghold just wins games. Recurring Ringleaders, Gempalms, and Piledrivers is just nasty. It gives this deck a slight kick in the ass in the mid-late game and I think adds a nice power level to the deck. Now I am not a fan of colorless lands in the deck, and I almost want to play 2 of these, almost. But I remember how often I got stuck with 2x Jitte and … throw that plan away. Stronghold adds to a very consistent manabase. If you play R/B you should certainly test it out. Now if you run Wasteland and Port … I wouldn’t but if you run just 4x Wastelands test it out. Again all preference, I don’t advocate playing the cards that I do, its all personal playstyle and what you are comfortable playing.
The SB was … eh, I wouldn’t change a thing in the main (except maybe Swamp #2) but when I play this again here will be the new SB:
3x Faerie Macabre
3x Pyrokinesis
3x Blood Moon
2x Powder Keg (give the deck some game against Enchantress, plus it shuts off multiple LEDs and kills Goblin tokens, as well as fucks up whatever shit Zoo has in play)
1x Goblin Tinkerer
1x Goblin Pyromancer
1x Warren Weirding
1x Thoughtseize
This is what I should have been playing, I have the most diverse metagame imaginable and this seems to cover all the bases (except storm combo which really isn’t played a whole lot). I really just want to ignore storm combo since it is such a rare occurrence in my meta and take it as an auto-loss, even with Mindbreaks, they just Duress it out then go off. I simply don't want to devote SB slots towards a matchup that, even after I bring in 5-7 cards, is maybe 35% in my favor, just seems like a waste.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
If you like the effect of Stronghold, why not play [card]Wort, Goblin Auntie[/card]? She's a goblin and has a reasonable body. Also, she only needs an one-time manainvestment.
Funny to see another Combo player has picked up Goblins.
I did play Wort a little while ago, I found it to be just win-more. If you are going to play Wort I think SGC would just fill that slot infinitely better. It is a cool card though and did have its merits, it was just slow.
I'm just taking a little break from combo, I am tired of the methodic nature of DDANT so I switched to TES, then TES just blows against Reanimator so I started playing Dredge on occassion, now I'm on to Goblins. This is where it stops though, these decks fill the gap of anything I would ever want to play in a metagame. All varied and each has the potential to win tournaments consistently. I only want to play decks that are unfair, and turn 1 Lackey with a full hand is just nasty! I think thats why combo players may choose to play Goblins, because of how explosive it is. I mean, next to block Ravager decks, this is probably the most aggressive deck in any format that I have ever seen.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
Just theorizing here, but does Thoughtseize mean you'll keep sub-optimal hands?
You say you want to maximize a turn 1 play, but it doesn't change the chance of having the 'best turn 1 play' (if that is defined by lackey/vial). Now you might keep a hand with Thoughtseize, where usually you would have mulled, possibly into a grip with Vial/Lackey.
Just food for thought - props on your finish :)
Only the heroic and the mad follow mountain goat trails.
Goblins is getting a better position in the metagame since Reanimator has been showing up. Not suprising as the matchup is probably favorable to Goblins. Goblins beats up Fish as well. Maybe thats why the combo players like to play it now so they can beat up the decks they tend to lose against playing combo.
PS what do you guys think of playing 3 cabal therapies main together with some War Marshals to improve the matchup against combo? Its also good for the mana curve never hurts to have some more 1 drops besides vial and lackey.
Needs more goyfs.
Thats actually why I started playing it. Probant was seeming to pop up everywhere and I wanted to play a deck that smash its face in. Turns out the little green guys are excellent at it.Originally Posted by ddt15
Powder Keg doesnt do anything against enchantress cause its just rips artifacts and creatures.
The card you are looking for is Engineered Explosives.
I know, I meant it as another way to remove Argothian Enchantress (thats something right?) but the matchup is just so abysmal its barely worth noting ... I considered EE but I'm not a fan, Powder Keg will kill Shackles which is important. Just a good versatility card VS EE which will only be set at 2. The only advantage I see for Engineered Explosives is that it can be played and blown up in the same turn to avoid Pridemage and wip Zoo's board with 4 mana in play.
@ddt15: In general, when playing DDANT or whatever weird DD variant I am playing, you have a 50/50 matchup versus Merfolk and CB garbage. I just don't like flipping coins in matchups, because DD is far superior to either of those decks, but the games are decided on how good the combo player's draws are, not the other way around. I have won through so much hate when the deck was working right, but ... if I wanted to flip coins I would go play some Rush Poker tournaments as opposed to Magic.
Cabal Therapy is interesting, but it will slow you down on occassion when you have to flash it back to hit something. Thoughtseize will ALWAYS hit something, whether that card matters or not is irrelevant, but it will always get something. I personally like Cabal Therapy better, but against a blind opponent just call Tarmogoyf or something. I will certainly test out Therapy since I like the idea of being able to strip my opponents hand pretty fast with my throw-away goblins. But the fact that you will totally whiff on occassion and might not have an extra dude to spare, that will be a problem. So the question is, is this such a rare occurrence that Therapy is better, or that fact that Thoughtseize always hits something makes it the better card? Against combo I would prefer Thoughtseize every time since Belcher and ANT draws are so random and hit you from a numer of different ways, calling: LED, Belcher, Dark Ritual, etc, may have no effect on them and they just beat you next turn where as Thoughtseize takes their most valuable card and takes chance out of the equation.
"I just shot Marvin in the face!"
"Why the fuck'd you do that??"
I'm glad to have you on our team, Pulp Fiction...
I have found cabal therapy to be bad. I have also found thoughtseize to be good, but not for all metas. I definitely recommend thoughtseize over cabal therapy from my experiences playing this deck.
Some cards that used to be much better were better because of engineered plague. EE was good in Rbg goblins because it killed off a lot of random things back then and also served as plague answer #4/5 alongside krosan grip. The same thing was true about cabal therapy, as it could hit plague, or landstill bombs. But plague and moat/humility decks aren't very popular right now.
Did anybody else see the recent SGC article where goblins performed well? Great numbers against reanimator and merfolk, and close numbers with countertop and zoo. Personally, I think this is the proof we need. This deck is definitely well-positioned to be a revitalized DTB if tendrils continues to slide.
I am also a big fan of faerie macabre now, but who isn't at this point.
Talking about faerie macabre, do you prefer them over leyline of the void?
I think that the faeries are better against reanimator, but against ichorid i'm not so sure.
Well the big advantage of Wort is that it allows you to keep your Vial on 4, instead of having to boost it up to 5 for SGC. Wort definetly has its merits in long drawn out games as it basically allows you to replay a Ringleader each turn.
I think leylines are the best choice, it allows you to buy abit of time against reanimator which should be enough to set up Vial+Scourger or draw/tutor for a Weirding. More importantly it is also very good against Ichorid and Loam decks unlike fearie macabre.
Here is what I would play right now:
Artifacts:
4 Aether Vial
Creatures:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Goblin Chieftain
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Instigator
1 Siege-gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
Sorceries:
3 Warren Weirding
Lands:
4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
6 Mountain
Sideboard:
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Leyline Of The Void
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Boartusk Liege
Needs more goyfs.
Why would you play magus instead of blood moon? Just seems silly when creatures are alot easier to remove than enchantments.
Well against lands you can drop it off a vial (they always seem to have multiple ports in play), and against control decks it works nice with thorn of amethyst as well.
Needs more goyfs.
I actually missed out on the Wastelands.
Without Wasteland I would definitely put in Stronghold. With 4 Wasteland and 1 Stronghold I got screwed on more occasions than I cared for that's why I stopped playing Stronghold. And without Wastelands you can afford to play one land less, I guess. I understand now.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Right now I am trying to prepare for the SCG open series Seattle next month and I am having trouble with my SB.
Right now it looks like this ...
4 pyrokinesis
4 leyline of the void
3 mindbreak trap
3 chalice of the void
1 earwig squad
cards considering...
tormod's crypt
faerie macabre
goblin tinkerer
bloodmoon(or magus)
goblin pyromancer
any suggestions ?
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
And Volrath's stronghold isn't a win more? It's slower and it can't be tutored or ringleadered.
Volrath's stronghold and wort are both great against slow control decks. Therefore speed isn't a huge issue. Unlike volrath's stronghold, Wort is likely to just get countered or kiled. Unless your oppenent is running wastelands, they can't deal with it. If creature denial/removal is a problem, wort is just as suseptible.
Both Volrath's Stronghold and Wort, Boggart Auntie are addressing problems that aren't really problems. That's why you shouldn't run either one of them.
Goblins isn't losing long games. I don't mean this as "Goblins always wins long games," but I mean this as the majority of problems Goblins is running into in tournaments has nothing to do with losing long games. Goblins' losses are coming to combos/strategies it fails to stop (ANT, Belcher, sometimes Lands/Reanimator), or faster aggro. So I'd rather run cards that fix these problems first.
I actually never had a problem with long games with Goblins. A Matron or Ringleader can easily turn things around.
With my current mono-red decklist, I have an open slot. I am wondering if should put in Warchief or Instigator on that spot.
My current list looks like this:
If I switch Chieftain with Lightning Bolt, I might just run a 4th Warchief. But even then, I like having 6-7 Hasters, not to mention the explosiveness those Lords provide. That said, I also like having 12 ways to cheat goblins into play. I know Lackeys rarely stick around but would that be enough reason to run 4 Instigators?
I know Tacosnape likes running 4 Instigators but which is more important?
Also, with 4 Instigators, I can set my Vials on 2 and 3 (I will have 10 of each drops).
Speaking of Lightning Bolt, I am still 50-50 with it. Yes, I like the idea of more removal, more reach and random use of it but I just dont feel it. I did some testing with it and actually won me random games but overall, it does not really help. Although I am thinking of putting them on the side along with Pyrokinesis against aggro matchups. I did win a game on MWS with a Bolt against AnT. He/she was recklessly wasting life away with AnT (I guess the player was hoping to draw Pact of Negation, which he/she never did) and when the player was at 2 life, I bolted him/her.
But ya, I am still skeptical with Bolts. I guess I to test it even more (I am also testing Merfolk, Dredge, Quinn and CounterRebels as I dont know what to play yet for an upcoming tournament).
On the topic of AnT, would Thorn of Amethyst on the side be enough or that matchup is plain hopeless?
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
I very much agree. I really think the land disruption is needed, it really helps against reanimator and ant.
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
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