I put in only 3 Knesis, and depending on they're build, 1 or 2 P. Needles. The MU is not a hard one, but i run Rb, wich I think is better agains't that.Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Actually, the matchup depends a lot on their build, specially on how many Silver Knights they run. All builds should run Jitte, an active Jitte means bad times. I've saw some D+T builds with Tivadar of Thorn in the sideboard, too.
But I agree that Anarchy is a good SB card, specially for MonoR. Besides what GoboLord said, it also takes care of Progenitus.
Running a pretty standard RB build. Been running into jitte a lot lately and every time it hits I lose.
Question: Are people running any artifact hate maindeck? in the board? If so I feel as though it should be a goblin so its tutorable. i.e. scrapper or tinkerer. Tinkerer doesn't really solve a jitte because you will not have a warchief/chieftain in play for haste and I think scrapper is too slow, or is it?
I came to the conclusion that EE might be the best answer even though it isn't tutorable. (Obviously shattering spree is probably the best answer but its much more narrow than EE) Anybody have some thoughts on this?
the best answer is arguably, Goblin Tinkerer. It's tutorable, comes in cheap and with haste can eat legacy moxen, force tops on libraries, jitte, vials and live... He's really good. Try testing him.
Except for the fact that it will never kill an active Jitte, because your Chieftains and Warchiefs are among the first things to die.
I'm becoming more and more fan of Scrapper. It's casting cost is not an issue, once you usually have to tutor for it, so you have at least 3 mana avaliable.
Agains't Jitte, I have in the board 2 P. Needle (I think it is underestimated) and 1 Scrapper. (and 7 creature removal MD)
It is enough to deal with Jitte in my games...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Avatara's absolutely right. It's been discussed for years. The end conclusion is always that Goblin Tinkerer is terrible against Umezawa's Jitte and SOFI, and there's very few if any other artifacts that Goblins ever needs to really deal with.
Tuktuk Scrapper is arguably workable given that Stoneforge Mystic has put Jitte on the rise. But his CMC may make Needle and Pyrokinesis the better options. Besides Tuktuk and Tin-Street Hooligan, there aren't any other good actual Goblin options. Tinkerer's subpar, Replica's way overcosted, and Archaeologist and Vandal both suffer the same problems as Tinkerer while being generally worse. I'd rather risk the third (Or second) color for Tin-Street, personally.
I personally think it's a mistake to be concerned about Jitte too much. First of all, you can beat a Jitte by killing their creatures (ideally in the attack phase through Incinerator) or chump --> sac with Siege Gang. Sometimes you can race them. Oftentimes you will lose to an active Jitte. You are going to lose games, it happens, get over it. Maindecking a Scrapper will salvage at best half of the games that you would otherwise lose against Jitte and I'm being optimistic. But on the flipside, drawing a Scrapper when you really need a removal spell or a Siege Gang Commander is going to lose you a ton of games as well. Personally I think the games you are going to lose due to Scrapper not being something else are probably way more than the games he will steal you against Jitte. If you disagree with me, do realize that you may very well be convinced by Scrapper or Tinkerer, by the few games you won due to them as they were probably memorable games to you.
About Tinkerer, listen to Avatara he makes a very solid point here.
Summary: Scrapper and Tinkerer both suck.
Team R&D
I totaly agree with what you said about Jitte. This card can be handled with a little skill and the right strategy.
Maybe you guys can get something from my SB constelation (Ive been working on it quite a while). Its on page 228 or 229 (Post #4563)
Agreed. My current SB has 1 Tinkerer and 3 Shattering Spree. Almost thinking of switching Tinkerer to Scrapper. The only argument I have is efficiency with Warchief.
Without Warchief: Tinkerer - 2 to cast, 1 to activate, summoning sickness, probably dies
Scrapper - 4 to cast, comes-into-play activation, 1 damage ping
With Warchief: Tinkerer - 1 to cast, 1 to activate, haste, still probably dies
Scrapper - 3 to cast, 1 damage ping
Seems like a matter of choice. I run 4x Warchief and 1 MD Wort, so I'll stick with Tinkerer 'till it pisses me off.
I doubt running scrapper as a one-of will lose you the game more often than win it. Just keep it in your SB to bring in against Jitte and you'll be fine. And Jitte is worth worrying about because I see decks both maindecking it and SB'ing it just for us. I've tried running tinkerer, which can die before use if you don't have a warchief out, and tin street, which can't be used to destroy artifacts if you do have a warchief out, but I prefer scrapper, which works in either scenario. And Jitte isn't the only artifact to worry about. There's all sorts of nasty artifact randomness out there waiting to spoil our game. Not to mention charbelcher. If they can drop it on T1 and have to wait til turn 2 to activate, dropping a scrapper off of a lackey makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
Scrapper and Tinkerer make sense as sideboard cards, I was talking about maindecking it. I probably still would play without either one as naturally drawing into it is very unreliable and on the other hand the jump from 4 to 5 mana isn't that much so there are probably a lot of instances where Siege Gang will suffice as well.
I just don't see Jitte as too much of a problem. Merfolk often runs it and we can just put Piledriver in front of their guy and Waste or Gempalm the Mutavault. Zoo sometimes plays it and they will beat us mercilessly if we spend all of our efforts on resolving Matron and then Scrapper. The tempo loss is just too huge and they will often have already killed several Goblins with the Jitte putting you way behind.
On the other hand, I wouldn't hold it against you if you run a singleton Scrapper or Tinkerer because everyone plays Jittes in your area. But in that case it might be worth considering splashing green and play a couple of Tin Street Hooligans or Ancient Grudges in the main.
Team R&D
Hi!...iI'm a n00b with goblin but i wanna try something different to my usual decks, so can anyone help me to build something competitive?
// Lands
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [TE] Wasteland
10 [UNH] Mountain
4 [R] Plateau
// Creatures
4 [LE] Goblin Grappler
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
1 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
4 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [9E] Blood Moon
SB: 4 [US] Disenchant
SB: 4 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void/Pithing Needle
I came across this in another thread:
For those who want to maindeck discard. Would this be a viable strategy to put in the main? Would it be good enough to fight hard aggro matchups like Zoo and (to lesser extent) Bant (RWM)? Cabal Therapy is very good vs combo so basically you can fight both but then again Stingscourger is weak against combo. Would it be worth it? It might mean not to play Incinerator and even Warren Weirding.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
The white splash is alright but black is better. Take out the grapplers there are a lot better goblins you could play. Try the mono red version with mogg warmarshall and goblin chieftan. Add stingscourgers,maybe kiki -jiki and lightning crafter . Def take out vexing shusher.
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
Thk for the reply, this is my current creatures list
// Creatures
4 [LE] lightning crafter
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [7E] Goblin Matron
1 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
1 [ON] Goblin Sharpshooter
4 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
If i would use the black splash, what cards i have to put in ?
The most important reason to play black is Warren Weirding. 4 Lightning Crafter are way too many. You only need one. I wouldn't play any Lightning Crafters myself but if you want to play them play one.
If I were you I would go:
-3 Lightning Crafter
-2 Gempalm Incinerator
+4 Warren Weirding
+1 Siege-Gang Commander
If you read the last 10 pages or so. You'll find enough information on card choices and such.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
I wouldnt run so many lightning crafters ....just one to tutor for with matron. I would also run one kiki-Jiki so you could copy him. You can copy the crafter with kik-jiki and ping your opponent to death and if you have a ringleader or matron out you can keep championing them with the crafter copy and when it dies at the end of turn the ringleader/matron comes back and you can ues their abilities over and over.
here is a pretty standard and fun list
1 lightning crafter
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Goblin Chieftain
2 Mogg War Marshal
4 Aether Vial
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
15 Mountains
if you are adding black you are adding it for Warrens Weirding....some people also add wort, earwig squad, or frogtossers but i dont think they are needed.....it allo depends on what you want to play.
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
Just got done with a local tourny, went 4-1 with R/b gobbies that I have been playing for about 3 years now. Today my deck performed the best it has in a long time, so I thought I might share my experience.
Here's my list:
4x Badlands
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Wasteland
2x Auntie's Hovel
7x Mountains
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
3x Goblin Chieftain
3x Frogtosser Banneret
3x Gempalm Incinerator
3x Siege-Gang Commander
2x Warren Instigator
2x Stingscourger
2x Goblin Piledriver
1x Wort, Boggart Auntie
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Earwig Squad
4x Aether Vial
2x Warren Weirding
SB:
4x Pyrokinesis
2x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Duress
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Anarchy
1x Goblin Tinkerer
1x Boartusk Liege
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
I know, my sideboard is really messy. I had just pulled an all nighter and forgot my extra sideboard stuff at home. Such is life. However weird it looks, my sideboard was fantastic to me today, getting me everything I needed when I needed it. Goblin Sharpshooter was especially helpful, stomping all over Merfolk multiple times (to be explained in detail later :D). I didn't take any notes so I'm pulling this mostly from memory, so no play-by-plays, just the major points.
Round 1: Josh R w/ Mono-black Dark Depths (maybe?)
G1: We start a war over lands, both of us wasting each others everything so neither of us end up with much. Fetched 3 times to finally get enough mana to get a Banneret to stick. He was stuck on a single swamp for most of the game, I think he managed to get a Nighthawk out near the end. Game went pretty fast when he ran out of wastes and drew not much else.
G2: Same as last game, with less mana-base screwing and more of him drawing nothing. I got a super draw and won pretty fast.
Round 2: Josh C w/ WUG New Horizons
G1: I was scared out of my mind, because I thought Josh would be playing Zoo. This was a change of pace. I start out slow, him countering some of my stuff and eventually playing a terravore. Didn't see that coming. Between that and goyf, he gets the first game won pretty easy.
G2: Now that I know what he's playing, I am a bit more aggressive in my approach. I sided in Relics and Crypt for this, and they were invaluable. Drew a Relic in first hand, and it made it hard for him to get a stable creature to stick (No cards to fuel a big enough Goyf and no lands to make Terravore big). He eventually gets a 4/5 Goyf out, but by then I had enough stuff out to win it out.
G3: If I thought that my sideboard would be bad in the beginning because I forgot my cards at home, I was disproved in this game.This time, got Crypt in first hand, he was on the play. T2 I draw a Relic, which was essential to my win. He does try to make it difficult for me, bringing in a COP: Red. That was suprising to see. Eventually I had a Chieftain, a Piledriver, a Banneret, and a Matron out. He is at not much life and time has been called. I play a Ringleader, see land, land, Vial, and.....a second Piledriver. He scoops with not enough mana to COP all my critters.
Round 3: Alan w/ U Merfolk
G1: Alan really didn't want to see this matchup. He wins rock-paper-scissors and goes first. I do what Goblins do best: kill Merfolk. Lots of critters and removal, we move on to G2.
G2: I get a bad hand, mull to 6 into an even worse hand. Don't know why I kept, but i did. I got no steam going as Alan just threw lords and such onto the table. Bad game, wasn't expecting to win that one.
G3: I'm on the play, Lackey, go. Alan plays Island, Vial, then reluctantly says go. Lackey hits, brings in Sharpshooter. a few turns go by, my tempo slows a bit, I eventually get a SGC out, I think i hard casted it (Shocked? So was I). His field is Waterfront Bouncer, Sovereign, LoA, and a Cursecatcher. Through some careful manipulation of SGC token saccing and Sharpshooter, I wipe his entire board and swing for the win with an absurd Piledriver. Nuts, right? Both of us were kinda shocked it actually worked.
Round 4: Brandon w/ GBW Rock
G1 & G2: I did really bad. Terrible hands I shouldn't have kept and either no lands or too much land. Tombstalker beat me like a drum.
Round 5: William w/ U Merfolk
G1: After that abyssmal round 4, I needed something to pick my spirits up. Hearing that I would be playing Merfolk again did just that. However, like I did many times today, I kept a risky hand. 2 Bannerets, Wort, and some lands I think. First Bannneret got Force'd, second stuck. I made the mistake of paying 4 for Wort when she only cost 3, he Dazed and i didnt pay because I thought I had no mana. Bad mistake, cost me the game. He went nuts after that with 3 lords on the table and a few other things. Got 3 Standstills in a row, just nuts. Needless to say, I lost.
G2: I don't know what happened this game, Will just started making really stupid mistakes, like attacking with a 1/1 Cursecatcher with no lord backup into a Piledriver. After he made a mistake on countering something (a Chieftain perhaps?), he just folds, saying he has made too many mistakes and wants to start over in G3. Fine with me.
G3: This was one epic game. He started off really strong, even though he made the play mistake of forgetting his first Vial trigger T2, getting some lords and 2 Mutavaults, eventually briinging me down to 12 before I could do anything of note. Eventually I got a Vial to 3 and starting to vomit stuff onto the table via Matron. With Matrons and a Piledriver I had drawn, I was able to stall until I got Vial up to 5 for the SGC in hand. He Stifled the token ability though, making me sigh a bit. My board was eventually SGC, Chieftain, and Piledriver. Piledriver didn't get to attack much, he was being held back to block in case he had a lord hiding up his sleeve. Eventually he ran out of steam, sitting on a Silvergill Adept and not much more for quite a few turns. We both drew into nothing for about 4 turns, but then I got some actual creatures, notably another SGC (got stifled AGAIN) and an Instigator. He just ran out of stuff to play, since i had killed about 6-7 lords by the end of the game. I was quite happy, since I knew not many people had 4-1 records.
In the end, I top 4'd, grabbing some sweet store credit. Had a great day, lots of fun playing with some fun people.
Final Conclusions:
-Sharpshooter is amazing, he does so many good things that are so synergistic with the deck. Does a lot of damage to Merfolk, its just brutal.
-Instigator has lost its appeal for me. He never really helped me out very much. He's too small for fending off Goyfs without a lot of pump, and he is always dead if I do get him out T2/3. I know its more of the threat of Instigator that makes him good, but all bark and no bite is not what this deck needs.
-Incinerator and Stingscourger are just plain awesome. With a Vial out, Scourger is instant cast, free, uncounterable bounce, and Incinerator is uncounterable burn. Melting Merfolks and Nighthawks is always fun :)
-Not bringing my binder with sideboard options is not a good idea.
Any suggestions or comments you have would be great; always trying to improve my deck. Just please, no flaming or trolling just for the heck of it. Its annoying. :P
I agree with you that instigator is more or less bait for removal. I'm debating taking him out of my lost for more stingscourgers since I'm only playing one at the moment. It's really hard to decide because he can be amazing if he hits once. In some matches I've played he has single handedly one me games but most of the times he doesn't do much.
"don't call me a dog ...just say it backwards "
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