I'd be angry if I actually read 37 pages of this thread.Originally Posted by danyul
But holy fuck standard is expensive. And shit like Giddeon is going to drop to a dollar by the time he rotates into only Legacy. Glad I don't play it...
Gideon will be a $10-15 card. Look at Sarkhan Vol, useless card but still packs a price tag.
Still, nowhere near $50.
But there was a time where Cryptic Command was $25, Mutavault was $40, Reflecting Pool was $30, etc. (also, Goyf being $40 or so in standard, but he's the exception that went up after rotation). Prices have been inflated by the mythic rarity, since the cards are twice as rare, you can say that it effectively doubled the prices of the super-powerful chase rares of the sets.
So, I checked the price for Jace, The Mindsculptor on findmagiccards.com (I don't want this to turn into a price source war) about a month or two ago. The price was about $50. I checked again the other day and it's $75. I can't remember when a card that was just printed (other than maybe tarmogoyf) been so expensive. Is it just me? I can understand though. Never have they printed such powerful cards like this one, baneslayer and tarmogoyf.
About a year and a half ago, I bought a NM english Moat for $100. I know I could have gotten it cheaper, but it was a very trusted seller (not ebay) and ships as fast as you can expect. I was worried that I got the shaft. Not anymore.
EDIT: Cryptic command was $25? Damn, and I'm worried about paying $10 now! (again, from the same trusted seller).
I remember when Cryptic Command was sold for 25€, but obviously as soon as it rotated outof type 2 the price dropped. Now you can find it for 5€. And the same will be for Baneslayer, it will eventually drop to 10€.
And actually when Tarmogoyf was printed it was worth nothing and look at it's price now!
Btw some cards get printed with a huge price and then drop pretty fast: see Lotus Cobra and Abyssal Persecutor.
Unfortunately Jace, the Mindsculptor won't drop fast..
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Well, it depends a lot on what the next Block will bring. Right now standart is Naya and a crapload of Midrange and Control decks, so every deck that plays blue wants Jace.
After all we come back to Mirrodin =). Last time we had an artifact based set the game speed increased a lot. If that happens Jace might see less play, same is true if more decks with Lightning Bolt become popular.
I think Jace can maintain some of its price even out of standard. I know its pretty awesome in legacy.
The game has never seen prices like this before and we can expect them to only increase.
If everyone remembers SOMEONE THAT WAS NOT BEN AT SCG REPEAT NOT BEN AT SCG!!! that at the end of this year, underground sea would be 1000 a set.
The issue I face is that if I sell to make a huge profit, I better hope to not want to return to playing as it will cost like 6K just to build a deck, all based on those speculative prices of course.
I have bought, sold, rebought many many times, but if I sold now or in the near future, due to this trend, would be the last.
There has been a discussion with MMogg and myself via PM about how I rarely play anyway, so it would at least turn into something I do utilize much more of my time.
On the fence though about all this.
Last edited by oldbsturgeon; 06-05-2010 at 09:25 AM. Reason: to make ben at scg happy
Anyone who eats hot dogs with their mouth is doing it wrong, as far as I’m concerned.
Getting even more expensive is a terrifying prospect. Especially since it is happening to all the formats (seems to be hitting the eternals harder as their cards were already $25-60 for the chase rares). How can this game continue if the secondary market continues to discourage new players?
Of course Magic collections aren't supposed to pop up over night. You have to work to achieve what most serious legacy players accomplish but there has to be a point where something breaks.
The most important thing to remember about this whole ordeal is:
These stores DO NOT control the secondary market. Players do.
At least for ths most part. Sure that store can buy out a ton of a card and set the price really high. But if no one pays it then they're forced to adjust.
I remember when you had to really think about trading a Shivan Dragon for a Mox Jet. And usually you thought about that trade for weeks wondering if you should've kept the Shivan.
Related to sort of off-topic Standard cost discussion, Baneslayer has been confrimed to be in M11, so that's one card that will take bit of a dip (although it already has previous to this news).
Gideon Jura is probably the second best planeswalker printed so far, so I wouldn't expect him to fall below $15 even when he rotates out of Extended in 6 years. Unless, of course, he becomes obsolete by them printing something better between now and then.
I expect him to be the first one to hit the mighty $80 mark. He's quite amazing and will be even better in Oct. Sad, but I actually expect it.
I have my eye on a few older cards not seeing much play in Legacy, but I expect them to break out soon.
All this discussion brings up an interesting point. Playing any type of magic competitively is more expensive now. We also were willing to pay a lot more than we knew we were! *I'm sure that last bit doesn't apply to you...
Anyone think Elspeth vs. Tezzeret is a planned reaction to the secondary market? Ajani V. was already done in a mass-produced promo form, and Sarkhan Vol sucks, so it makes sense to have the other 2 playable walkers from the block reprinted for easier access.
I also heard a rumor that the original cycle of walkers would be replaced in M11 by a combination of Elspeth, Tezz, Sorin, Chandra Ablaze, and Nissa, which still gives one per color but makes them from more utility cards to more build-around-me type cards (except Elspeth of course). Anyone have any information of this?
I believe its the other way around. Big stores with enough money set their prices high (and are able to buy large quantities). The smaller stores follow up because they want to make that kind of money too. Maybe they lower the prices a bit but 75$ or 80$ doesn't matter much in terms of having to pay top dollar for cards. The bigger stores do not have to follow in lowering their prices because they have enough money at hand to wait for a while. As soon as the smaller shops are out of those cards again only the expensive ones at the big stores are available. So the price stays that way. And the majority of those players still need those cards to play their deck so they buy it. Sure players can opt not to pay these prices. But there's a few reasons why they wont.
1. Magic is addictive
2. They do not know to find cheaper deals. (in this very thread if I remember correctly people were complaining about very expensive duals €80 while there are plenty around for €40 or less)
3. Consumers are lazy.
There's probably a few more to think of. I am no economist nor am I a social scientist (as far as to call it a science) but I think the way the consumer market is supposed to work has changed.
Then there are those (usually casual players) who actually say forget about it, I just wont pay that amount of money for a card. And they go for cheaper cards that do almost the same. Guess what? Even the cheaper cards get more expensive so magic in a whole gets more expensive.
But even so, there are plenty players that still want to play. And besides a store is not quick to lower card prices when they paid a lot of money to purchase those cardsr. Only when theyre liquidity is low they have to do this. But the big stores wont lower their prices becuase of one small competitor lower their prices. They can afford to wait it out. For the small shop this is a downward spiral and eventually they go broke or decide to quit. You can guess what happens. The bigger stores have less competition, still charge high prices and magic is getting moer expensive.
EDIT: I would like to add that players who want to sell a high value card won't sell that card for less if they see it being sold for beaucoup money at some magic store.
Last edited by Nelis; 06-05-2010 at 08:10 AM.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Hey Man:
Not to be a jerk, but given that it is my reputation on the line, I truly do not appreciate having words put in my mouth that were never put there. I have never, NEVER said that Underground Seas would hit $1000 a playset - NEVER! I said that 3rd Underground Seas would hit $100 each by the end of the year - so you're misremembering an extra 0, and the fact that I was talking about an individual Underground, and not a playset.
While I do appreciate that people respect my opinion, it does no good for either me, or the community, to have people (at best) misquote me and (at worst) just make up stuff and attiribute it to my name.
- Ben
There I fixed it for you.
I would hope that my worthless writing couldn't ruin you in any way, and its not like I know what I'm talking about anyway.
But what I do know is its seeming better and better to sell every day.
Anyone who eats hot dogs with their mouth is doing it wrong, as far as I’m concerned.
Will Jace, the Mind Sculptor maintain it's $80 price tag?
I believe Jace will remain high. It sees play in pretty much every constructed format...
Talking about standard, after a fenomenal drop, it seems Lotus Cobra might be on the rise again. I mean, it's mythic, played in arguably the best deck of the format, and will not rotate out for another year. At 10$ it's a safe buy, and a very fun card to boot.
I think one problem with questions like this is the lack of any time frame. Do you mean 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, etc.? I can't see it being as highly used as Tarmogoyf and that has settled at about $50 give or take. I don't think Jace is going to maintain $80 after it rotates out of Standard and after it leaves Extended, there's no way it will stay at $80*. Sure, it's a strong card in certain decks (MTGO Landstill variants use it successfully and even then, not as a 4 of), but it won't be used enough to keep demand at $80.
*Barring some new format like the rumoured "Overextended".
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Jace seems like around a $25 card after leaving Standard. It's still worth playing in legacy and not bad at all in the control builds. I keep seeing it more and more and cards like that tend to stick around the $25 mark and sit if they have something special about them that tabletop players like also. It might be a little less considering Thoughtseize is used much more and still in that range, thought being a mythic lends some weight to him.
I just noticed an odd trend the other day... SGC is cheater than ebay with a lot of things. I know if you bid ofter you will eventually get a good price.. but for example, I was looking at terravores today and they are going around $7-8 on ebay but SCG they are $5-6. I don't know this just strikes me as very odd and it is starting to worry me a little.
They might not have updated prices yet. How many terravores are there on eBay?
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