After some more testing i've noticed:
1) a 2/2 split between WoG and Firespout (with at least a 3rd one sb) seems fine;
2) faerie macabre>ravenous trap; trap is poor against reanimator, a matchup i'm concerned about;
3) at least 1 tormod's crypt should be present if tolaria west is played;
4) still not sure about tolaria, it's the kind of card that can save you the day or slow you down when you need to be fast.. stil it's more yes than no for me..
5) i went back on karakas and added 1 main (-1 delta)
6) wing shards: may be a solution to any non-Iona fatties..
Well I am glad to see you are back and willing to put some time into the deck Konsultant. I'm interested in what you come up with.
Maybe this deck should fuse with the Counter-Top Thopter deck and somehow has a bastard child between the two that makes this deck viable again.
Maybe the Thopter Combo + Standstill + Manalands?
there actually has been a uw landstill list that did well at the bazar of moxen trial here is the link
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=34444
This list was allready disscussed several pages ago.
But, as you mentioned BoM, what do you guys think about the UWg list that made top4?
http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35640
I'm not quite sure if I like the list or not. 3 copies of Jace 2.0 seems to be 1 (or maybe even 2) to much, yet on the other hand the list looks pretty solid on paper (even if I miss 1-2 extra spot removal in the mainboard).
I'm also not sure if Grip is worth the splash, because neither ANT or Reanimator do suffer from it (well maybe ANT a bit if they play Carpet of Flowers from the side, or against maindeck Top's).
They certainly help against Vials or Counterbalance, but judging from his manacurve his machtup against Balance/Top isn't that bad and 3 Explosives should be able to deal with Vials.
Our music means nothing, except for what it means to
you.
I haven't been able to post here in quite some time. You make some excellent points and I agree. I can't recall exactly, but are you against the use of Top? I'm split on if I want to use it or not but am leaning towards not using it. I think I'd rather have more answers that they have to deal with rather than searching for the answers which doesn't give us much card advantage.Originally Posted by konsultant
This list I find rather interesting, it took 5th at the Moxen Tournament: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=35642
It uses E. Dragon to help color fix since he uses 9 colorless sources (which to me is too much anyway) but he also uses 2 Crucible which is interesting. Most lists use 1 if they use any at all. What do people think of 2 in the maindeck? Its difficult to find room for 24 lands, 2 CoW, and an E. Dragon, I imagine one of those can be cut (likely the 24th land, although going below 24 is risky as implied above, but 2 CoW and the Dragon should help land situations).
This list looks crappy to me. Lightning Bolt? I absolutely dont't get the point of playing this card in a Landstill deck. You never want to shoot it at the opponent and as a removal it's a lot worse than Edict or Path.
I'd say Fire/Ice and Lightning Helix are better than bolt, if you want to go with red.
About UWG list: Grip just isn't worth it. The list doesn't even run Nantuko Monastery. Its just plain UW if you look closely at it.
I played Wafo-tapp's list after reading about it in ruels cg article, and I did a top 8. top 4 out of it on 2back to back tournies.
The changes I would make, would be cuting green for either black or red, blackobviously improving the reanimator match along with allowing access to e plagues.
I mean, wafo-tapa's list is the exact contrary of innovation... is basically an old school landstill with snare, jace 2.0 instead of fof, disputable manabase and a worse wrath of god (i've never seen a extirpate on wog...), which runs 4 standstill and only 4mishra and no land denial to survive under it. Props to his finish, that's clear. But really, not anything one can't build on its own once he has some practice with the deck shell... (and stilistically speaking, one can do even better) He just reinvented the wheel, though it was good at finishing that high in such a large tournament.
And what's wrong with that? The so called "innovations" are firespouts and crappy RW rlaneswalker, while straight W with wraths / humilities is just better for most of the meta... I built the already discussed thopter-Landstill on my own and won 2 tournaments, STILL the classic builds are just more solid against an average metagame. In fact, Wafos Landstill will probably loose to ANT and have a good matchup against almost every other deck due to the 2 humilities. Jace is awesome, far better then fact or fiction ever was. I would run the list nearly exactly, taking out 1 c-spell and 1 jace for the 3. top (which allows to play 3 counterbalances in the SB instead of the meddling mages) and the 4. spell snare for the 4. c-spell...
Krosan Grip is definetly worth the splash (you need a splash anyway for ee3), cause you better handle c-balances AND enemy tops. If i would consider another splash, i would probably take red for lightning helixes against zoo / merfolk...
One more point: Wafos list runs the most solid Landstill-manabase i did ever see (i would cut 1 misty rainforest for another basic island) which is great. And since you have so many planeswalker you don't even have to run things like crucible for wastelands / factory recursion. Just put Jace + Elspeth on the board and win the game some rounds after that while destroying all threats with the removal from theese extra-brainstorms...
Since i played Landstill for about 5 years (the last year not, there i played dreadstill) and Wafos list is quite similar to the last i played (there i had cunning wishes but they seem way too slow at the moment) i will definitely give it a try.
Greetz, Marius Hausmann
Who said there's soemthing wrong?
I just don't get why people talk with ammiration of wafo's list like a new god descended from heavens, that's just classic landstill with minor changes and maybe the weakest splash among g, b, r. No one ever said that's wrong or he doesn't deserve credits for top8'ing @ BoM with that, but that's just one of the lists I play since top and jace1.0 came out and not me alone in this thread. There's really nothing to be surprised on the list: it's linear, no bullets stuff or whatever. Fine, I like it, but don't say this is innovative! (that's the only thing that it's wrong)
Lightning Bolt is an interesting choice. It quickly gets rid of creatures that can give us problems. We have swords and other removal for the creatures that it can't get rid of. It also helps against ANT and can help deal with Planeswalkers.
Lightning Bolt is an interesting choice. It quickly gets rid of creatures that can give us problems. We have swords and other removal for the creatures that it can't get rid of. It also helps against ANT and can help deal with Planeswalkers.
Accidental double post so lets add to this one then: I like that Bolt doesn't give them a land like Path does, and it still takes care of most of the troublesome creautures. It was a life-saver when I tested it against goblins and got rid of 2 early Lackeys in a row. WIth Path, they would have gotten 2 land drops and would've been much more dangerous.
Of course Lightning Bolt is not a useless card in general, but it isn't good in Landstill. I can't handle Goyf, Dreadnought and all the other bigger guys. You want to play it in decks where it is good to shoot 3 at your opponent. We don't need that. We either have board control an win or don't have it and loose. The opponent's life is not important (most of the time of course).
But you're right about Path beeing not that good either. I'm going to test Innocent Blood. It's really good against Reanimator and Zoo, it can kill Mongoose and is hopefully decent against most other decks. Sorcery Speed sucks, but the lower cost (compared to Edict) seems to be more important in todays fast and Daze/Spell Pierce-infested meta. I know that it's not a great card, but I will give it a try.
As funny as it may be...
Lighting bolt could be used as a cheap 1 mana removal AND (although unlikely) can destroy a planeswalker. I've seen alot of JACE 2.0 drops and just BS away. IF you have that bolt in hand, you could surprise your opponent. Same thing with any other Planeswalker. Attack with normal creature damage and bolt it....
My list being short in blue, I would run Fire/Ice over it. However, the bolt would probably be better than fire/ice in at least 50% of the scenarios.
You already have
4stp
0-4 wog humility
0-4 EE
to get rid of Goyfs and other creatures with high defense. Those bolt should be used instead on weaker creatures. Save the STP for the fatties ; use the bolt on the nacati and other trouble creature
Not saying it IS good. But clearly not a bad card.
Oh, in my opinion, BOLT is superior to PTE in many MU. Giving life to opponent is acceptable.
Giving a land can be a huge lost
Which is why bolt can come in handy against the fast aggro decks.
Again, not trying to defend bolt. Just want to correct some false statements about how bad the card is : it isnt
What do people think about Lightning Helix? I play it as a 2of in the maindeck for additional spot removal, as a md life-gain effect and cmc2 for CB (which my list runs).
BBB
I've tested this build for some time and been fairly succesful with it. (that is, I haven't lost with it on MWS yet, but that doesn't really prove much)
// Lands
1 [ZEN] Island (1)
2 [MM] Plains (3)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
2 [R] Underground Sea
2 [TE] Wasteland
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [R] Tundra
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
// Creatures
// Spells
1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
1 [SC] Decree of Justice
1 [10E] Wrath of God
1 [ZEN] Day of Judgment
2 [TE] Humility
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [SC] Stifle
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [ARB] Meddling Mage
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 2 [CNF] Path to Exile
I really like Stifle over Counterspell in this deck. Its primary function is to protect your nonbasics from Wasteland so you won't get mana screwed and you can get to your 4cc bombs faster and more easily, but it also has the other usual uses like stopping Pridemage/EE/Deed etc. I'm no Landstill expert so if you think it sucks, tell me what you think should be changed :>
Hello everyone,
i read this thread and i do have a complete different view of the current state of landstill.
the problem of landstill is that you do have a lot of disruption, but you no potent clock that makes ur disruption relevant.
1. combo:
without such a clock you lose close to 100% vs every very good comboplayer because he can simply make u waste counter on fake-starts and then just finishes you - thats why tempotresh wins vs combo - they do have a clock and disruption.
2. aggro
because u lack a clock they mostly finish u exept you gain total board control, which almost never happens.
3. reanimator/dregde/GY-decks
reanimator is unwinable in g1 because of the speed AND the disruption they have.
4. bant
you should win this one unless they iona/cb/progenitus u
5. conclusion
most of the MU are really bad for the old landstill and for most of the lists i have seen above.
i do have a approach on how to turn this deck into a T1 deck, i call it "Polystill". this list do have a clock and offers the disruption which is good against the current format - cards like elspeth, wrath,... are to slow and need to be changed. the power level and the speed of the format has changed.
6. the list
// Lands
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [ROE] Plains (1)
1 [ROE] Island (1)
1 [R] Plateau
2 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [R] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [MOR] Mutavault
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
// Creatures
1 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [SHM] Firespout
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [MI] Polymorph
2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
3 [CS] Counterbalance
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [9E] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 [RAV] Lightning Helix
SB: 3 [7E] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
7. the choices
Polymorph, 8 manlands and iona (emrakul):
the power of iona is known from bantsurv and reanimator, polymorph offer a 5. turn iona which is much more potent than an elspeth, emrakul is vs. bant cause it is better than iona, they have no chance to handle it and it isnt stopped by iona number 2 from the bant player, and after a wrath u just need to poly again.
red: wrath is too slow and red offers firespout and lightning helix vs aggro. path offers them a extra land and you do have swords, spell snare and a bigger creature vs creature that dont die from firespout.
cb: i searched a card that is good against aggro AND combo, i found no better card than cb, cb is also good against loam und other prob decks
sideboard:
a.lab against combo, emra against bant (and reanimator), helix against aggro, gy hate against decks that use thier gy - sb ist obv. i think
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