Welp, Mindbreak trap is coming out of the board so maybe there's room for some Order's :D
And unless I am missing something, the only way to tap it is with attacking right? It does have a "cute" air around it, and definitely some surprise factor with which an advantage can be taken.
I think I will try this out for funsies. My Standard season is over so I see the next few months full of Legacy/Limited.
And of course you played Dredge because you wanted to win. That's why we play, right: to win? Dredge is fragile enough to be kept honest. And now that Reanimator is going down in popularity, so will the hate, making it a good choice once again. I just like attackign with 2 powered duders
For people like me who don't know what it does:
Order of Whiteclay
Anyway, MB Trap might be more important than before; if Zoo becomes the best deck, then Lands and Belcher will see more play. You need them to win against Belcher.
EDIT: Order seems bad, I'd rather run Bloodbraid Elf.
How often does Lands cast spells to make MBT a freebee? I have seen the deck played out enough but have yet to sit across from it. MBT Totally hoses belcher, yet what does one counter? ETW or Belcher itself?
Belcher is going to dumb his hand to either go all-in on Belcher or on ETW. You counter whatever he does, he's left with no hand and 1 or 2 mana on board, so he needs to draw into 3 or 4 acceleration AND a win condition before you race him. Not hard.
I never said MB Trap was good against Lands, just Belcher. The only time Lands will play 3 spells in a turn is in the late game when they cast 2 Loams and something like a Tormod's Crypt.
My meta has basically shifted to being anti aggro...I did pretty bad today and i basically lost to a bunch of midrange decks and Jitte. I was wondering if you guys know of any "tech" to help against these match ups. I'm looking at a stoneforge package or adding more big guys such as 3-4 knights.
4-0'd a small tournament at Cyborg 1 in Doylestown PA today with Zoo, ending in 1st place. It's been like, 4 or 5 months since the last time I played Zoo, so this felt pretty good. It was a lot of fun to play the deck again, and this basically restored my confidence in the archetype so I may take it to more tournaments soon. We'll have to see how I feel, I guess. Anyway, the list. Pretty typical for how they're looking lately.
4 Wild Nacatl (4 Foil!)
3 Grim Lavamancer (1 Foil!)
2 Kird Ape (2 Foil!)
1 Steppe Lynx (Foil!)
1 Figure of Destiny
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage (2 Foil!)
2 Knight Of The Reliquary (1 Russian Foil! :D)
4 Lightning Bolt (4 Textless Foil!)
3 Chain Lightning (3 English!)
2 Lightning Helix (2 Textless!)
3 Price of Progress
2 Fireblast
4 Path to Exile (4 Judge Foil!)
3 Taiga
3 Plateau
1 Savannah
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Windswept Heath
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
SB:
2 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
3 Tormod's Crypt
The maindeck felt really good. As much as I hate to admit it, Zoo's position in the metagame has changed significantly. Since we no longer have inevitability on most of the blue decks and it's getting pretty likely they're going to be packing more creature hate than before. Anyway, I know I have some really stupid numbers (1 Lynx? I only had 1 foil and didn't wanna run non-foil 1 drops that weren't rares ;p It was actually pretty okay though, surprisingly enough.) Playing no Libraries is a first for me in a long time, but they're pretty impossible to take advantage of in the current metagame, and maindeck jittes are just too slow for what we need them to do. In addition, the maindeck Pops and Fireblasts give us the reach and speed we need right now. In the past I hated fireblast in the deck, but they feel good now. I like them.
Sideboard was pretty good to me, and I think this is the direction Zoo sideboards are going to have to go in this new metagame even though I still feel like it looks like crap on paper. Whatever, it worked.
The tournament started at 6, and I had work until 5:30 at Wegmans, so my friend Matt (Tammit67) came and picked me up with his friend Rob and the three of us headed to the site. I'd decided a few days ago I wanted to play Zoo and not Excalibur, and I threw together a sideboard at like 8 am. We got to the site, bummed around for a few minutes, then the tournament began.
Round 1 Vs. Joe playing UWr Landstill
I didn't know what he was playing, but I won the roll and kept a strong hand with a nacatl, an ape, and a lavamancer + some burn. He FoWd my t1 Nacatl, making me think Reanimator, then fow'd my t2 Lavamancer (Ape resolved) after playing a tundra and brainstorming on my turn. It quickly became apparent he was on Landstill. Ape beat down for several turns while he snared my pridemage before he managed to halt the ape by dropping humility with a Factory in play. I considered trying to force Ape through with burn on the factory, but then he cycled decree of justice making that seem like a bad plan. At this point I had Helix and Fireblast as my last two cards in hand, and 5 lands on the board. He played a standstill, so in response I cast helix and fireblast to put him on 2. I topdecked a chain lightning, then topdecked a second chain, so I played the first to break standstill. He drew three cards, activated his factory and swordsed it to stay at 2. I revealed the second chain and he conceded.
-2 Knight of the Reliquary, -4 Path, -1 Grim Lavamancer +2 Krosan Grip +2 Blasts +3 Choke
I know it kinda sucks to be taking out a 1 drop in a matchup where having one is so important, but lavamancer is by far the least impressive of them all and I feel like it's the best card to cut here since burn is very effective.
Game two I open on Nacatl which resolves, then he swordses it when I attack the next turn. I play another nacatl and a lavamancer. The second nacatl also eats a plow, but the lavamancer sticks around to beat down and throw some fallen cats and fetchlands at him. Unfortunately for him, he gets stuck on two lands... for a long time. Lavamancer beats him down to 10 before he draws a third land (Factory). I EOT Lava him, untap, chain, Price for 4, and then mance him again for victory.
He shows me his hand after the game ends, and I have to admit it was ridiculously stacked. He had Humility, Moat, EE, and Pulse of the Fields all ready to play, if only he could acheive the mana for them. Lucky me, I guess.
1-0
Round two I played against a guy playing a foiled out standard Jund deck from standard. Game one he mulled to 5 and I had turn 1 nacatl. He had... nothing until turn 3 when he played a sprouting thrinax. I pathed it and then pathed the follow up thrinax, at which point I burned him out.
-2 Grim Lavamancer -2 Lightning Helix -1 Chain +3 Jitte +2 Swords. I'm not sure this is correct, though it's honestly not relevant since it waas against a standard deck...
Game two was pretty quick as he again mulled to 5 and I kept a hand with tarmogoyf, pridemage, jitte, path, and three land. I topdecked a second pridemage which allowed the first to trade with his Putrid Leech, then smashed in with a 5/6 goyf until he was at 5. Both our hands were empty, as were the boards. Nicely though, I was playing this awesome card called Price of Progress... 10 damage for 1R? Yeah, pretty nice.
2-0
Round three I played against Dave with Elves. For a non-combo elf deck it was pretty well tuned. Anyway, game one he hits triple Sylvan Messenger and I draw 5 lands in a row. Triple Kicked Joraga lord guy beats me. :[
-2 Knight of the Reliquary, -3 PoP +2 Swords +3 Jitte
Game two I keep a hand with 3 burn spells, swords, Jitte and two lands. I eventually draw a pridemage to put Jitte on, which tilts the game heavily in my favor. Then he plays Chalice at 1, which seems like an odd choice to me... but I guess it was good since I then drew 4 one drops in a row. I have to make a really awkward fireblast on a lord, but I still have three more lands left over afterwards so it's okay. Eventually Pridemage got him down within burn range, at which point I used it to blow up the chalice and finish him off with some lightning. Hooray!
Game three I keep a one lander on 6 cards with Grim, Ape, and copious removal. I draw two more lands, but he draws two wastelands, making things... really rough. I get a lot of mileage out of lavamancer, but since I'm stuck lavamancing one critter per turn while racing him (Pridemage vs. Wren's Run Vanquisher) it's hard to keep up with his elves. Eventually I get the second land (though I'm forced to double block his vanquisher to avoid death) and put a tarmogoyf in play followed by a new lavamancer. I draw both my lightning helixes which prove to be extremely clutch since they give me the life I need to stabilize, and lavamancer keeps his board clear while goyf finishes him off.
3-0
Round four I play against my friend Matt who brought CountertopThop to the table today. Game one I play t1 Nacatl, t2 Chain+ Swing
(14) t3 Bolt + Goyf (Countered) + Swing (8) t4 Swing + Pridemage (Snared) + Bolt (2) t5 Win. Yaaaaaay.
-2 Knight of the Reliquary, -4 Path to Exile, -1 Grim Lavamancer, +3 Choke +2 Blasts +2 Krosan Grip.
Game two we both keep 1 landers. Mine is full of ridiculous gas including multiple one drops, price, and choke, but I don't draw the second land for far too long while he assembles countertop and thoptersword. I scoop when he starts thopthopthopthopthopping.
Game three my hand is a lot better, though it's like 4 one drops so I run the serious risk of getting blown out. Luckily enough, the 5th card is choke and the other two are lands. Cool! I go hardcore aggro with one drops, and he has to plow my nacatl and figure before trinket maging for EE. I take the opportunity with him tapped out to cast Choke, which resolves. He has a factory and a seat of the synod which untap, but he can't make EE at 1 and crack it in the same turn, giving me enough time to put him down to 9. From there, Chain and PoP for 6 finish the game.
4-0
The deck was great. I'd play this maindeck again in a heartbeat, and it was a lot of fun to return to my old stomping grounds on the taigas and plateaus. I'm not sure what I'll play at the next vestal event, but I'll definitely be considering Zoo pretty heavily.
Thanks for reading.
Originally Posted by Bardo
Good job Harry, I wish you would have said something about going because I definitely would have went with you! I went last week but didn't want to drive all the way again by myself. Are you still not going next weekend?
Thanks Joe. I only went because Matt offered to pick me up after work, sorry I didn't think to let you know. I'm working next weekend, but I'll be at the one next month.
Heya Hungry, your sideboard looks a ton like mine, but I have one question about it. I have completely removed Jitte/Library from my list for more burn (2 helix/3 pop) and feel this is the right move considering the inevitable shift in the metagame due to Mystical bannings. You ever feel Jittes were too slow, or were just so glad you had them?
Hi everyone, this is my first time posting a thread in mtgthesource and I wanted to have some advice on my zoo deck. I don't know why but even with this built I have been having problem beating Agrro Loam deck. My deck is almost same as Matt Elias deck except for some changes here and there.
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Steppe Lynx
3x Grim Lavamancer
2x Loam lion
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Qasali Pridemage
3x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
3x Price of Progress
2x Fireblast
3x Path to Exile
4x Wooded Foothills
3x Windswept heath
1x Arid Mesa
2x Horizon Canopy
2x Taiga
2x Plateau
1x Savannah
2x Forest
2x Mountain
1x Plain
SB
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Krosan Grip
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
2x Mindbreak Trap
And I have 3 spaces left in my sideboard and I can't think of any hate cards for Aggro Loam. Any help or comment will be much appreciated.
Well, the question is which part of aggro loam are you having trouble against? Personally, I think Burrenton Forge Tender is actually a relevant hate card against them, since it can chump crusher all day, and stop the damage from a devastating dreams, which I found to be the game breaker in that matchup. However, it's rather limited. I would think it could be decent in the mirror--Protect your guys, block a couple red guys, or counter a burn spell, and also some use vs. dredge. Duergar hedge mage can also be good against them, since it gives you another guy, it kills chalice, seismic assault, and sometime EE, though the condition can be harder to get when you're concerned about basics. My last suggestion is perhaps some swords in the board, so that you can just get rid of their guys more, and those are also very useful in other matchups.
In other words, I haven't played the match recently, but I think these three are all options that could be used against them, depending on what you're concerned about. It's going to be a tough matchup regardless, since sometimes they'll just get us, especially if they can land chalice at 1, since that hurts us so much. Also, I think that faerie macabre is better than relic in the board, since relic kills our tempo too much, in every match it's relevant for. It doesn't get that much out of their graveyard for aggro loam, but my thoughts are that we only need to hinder the graveyard a little bit, not always completely destroy, since we have the speed to still win.
Faerie Macabre is a card that I've been testing lately, and would do well against Aggro Loam. It can remove Loam and a creature if they have Stronghold, or two lands for Terravore, etc. The card is actually very good in a number of matchups: Reanimator, Lands, New Horizons, etc. You should try it.
relic is horrible for our sideboard, don't run it. Crypt and Faerie are infinitely better.
Edit//Oh, and no, I don't think Jitte is too slow on our board. In the matchups where you want it, you're okay with slowing down because you have, if not parity, inevitability (Elves, Goblins, Merfolk, Mirror).
Thank you Valtrix for replying so quickly, actually my main problem with the guy I play Aggro Loam was dealing with Devastating Dreams. I can some what deal with chalice since I got Qasali Pridemage but, when he Devastating Dreams almost all the time I can never really recover from it and causes me to lose the game.
Thank you Brizentine Empire for also replying to my post so quickly. I have thought of using Faerie Macabre but never tried it I think i'll try to see how it works.Faerie Macabre is a card that I've been testing lately, and would do well against Aggro Loam. It can remove Loam and a creature if they have Stronghold, or two lands for Terravore, etc. The card is actually very good in a number of matchups: Reanimator, Lands, New Horizons, etc. You should try it
I like Relic of Progenitus for New Horizon because I can kill there Terravore and make their Knight of the Reliquary small.
Well, if DD is your problem, the only "true" answer to that is Burrenton Forge Tender. Why? Because most likely you're going to have the better creatures on the board, and if DD only becomes an armegeddon, then your opponent is going to be in a very painful situation. Otherwise, there's not really a sideboard card that is going to help against DD. (Okay, Tajuru Preserver doesn't count.) The key is to play very carefully with your lands, which oddly enough can be a struggle.
Also, I back up what lion says. Any graveyard hate that costs mana hampers this deck. I do agree that relic is better vs. New Horizons; however, we need the free cost of faerie/crypt against reanimator or dredge. Otherwise we have a good chance of just losing. I think the instances where you need that tempo boost to not be shut out in a game is much better than the chances we'll need it against new horizons, since we still have a game vs. New Horizons without relic.
You can get around Devastating Dreams by playing something narrow like Sacred Ground, so that it becomes merely a sweeper and not a sweeper + Armageddon. Then as long as you extend yourself cautiously you should be ok. If you're running up against a lot of Lands or Stax decks, it also has relevance there.
I've also been thinking about playing something like Reprisal instead of bleeding into STP after I hit 4 Paths; Reprisal should usually kill opposing Goyfs / Knights in the mirror with the benefit of potential relevance in other match-ups (such as Terravore against Aggro Loam or New Horizons).
One of the things I love about Legacy is that the card pool is about the same as Vintage, but the actual playable card count is exponentially higher. There aren't many problems in Legacy that you can't solve, sometimes you just have to consider narrow applications.
I feel like reprisal would be a poor choice, even though it doesn't give them live. To start it costs 2, which slows your tempo down a lot and increases its chance to be dazed. I think that tempo loss alone is worth the life, since chances are you'll make it up with the extra mana you have open. However, I think the larger problem is that 4-power is actually very narrow, because you can't count on it to kill goyfs, and it certainly doesn't kill those problem rhox war monks.
Well I don't think I'm advocating bringing Reprisal in against a deck with Rhox War Monk, although I guess some New Horizons players pack them in the board? Still, new Horizons is loaded with Reprisal targets. In the mirror, even a Wild Nacatl with Exalted or a Steppe Lynx off a fetch crack is going to be 4 power. You won't be hurting for targets. Specifically, the question was, "I'm losing to Aggro Loam, help!", so Reprisal is an option there to clear out large targets that isn't dead in other match-ups (ie New Horizons, the mirror).
If I'm considering a board that has, say, no Storm hate and replaces it with 4th Path to Exile, 2 Jitte, and 1 ??? card, I would consider a Reprisal over a Swords b/c I really don't want to give my opponents a massive chuck of life. I'd rather pay 1 extra mana in most of those match-ups, I think, if we're talking about a 1-of or 2-of out of the SB; the only benefit to STP in the mirror is the ability to healing salve yourself by plowing your own guy. A lot of those mirror matches come down to Goyf superiority or Jitte.
What about Temporal Isolation or Journey to Nowhere?
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