Running behind deadline this week, I decided to write about the two Legacy decks I’ve been testing with lately: Reanimator and Thopters. I finished up at just after midnight last Thursday, only to find out that Mystical Tutor had just been ban-hammered by the DCI. Obviously this required some serious re-writing. As a result, this isn’t my most polished piece of writing but I hope you’ll still find something interesting or thought-provoking.
The end-result is an article less about a finished product (ie, here is the absolute best new Reanimator deck!) than it is about getting the reader thinking about adapting a deck, in this case Reanimator, to a new field. In this specific case, we need to think about if the deck is still viable without Mystical Tutor; if it is viable, we need to determine how to replace Mystical and try to figure out how we might want to build the deck in what is likely to be a slightly slower, more creature-centric format. This exercise of thinking about the metagame, and the massive card pool that makes up Legacy, is useful not just in this specific instance but in general, when considering Legacy.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l..._Mystical.html
A few brief asides that are not in the article:
To those that are pushing Dark Ritual in Reanimator, what deck are you trying to race at this moment in time? Does the removal of Mystical Tutor result in a format that is faster, or slower?
To those that think Reanimator dies effective 7/1/2010, consider what the new top-tier decks are going to be and whether or not Reanimator can be built to beat those decks (which will probably have less hate); it is counter-productive to compare Reanimator without Mystical to the field as it is, today (which ties into my thoughts on Dark Ritual).
Regarding Mystical Tutor: it isn’t so much that I’m opposed to Mystical Tutor being banned, as it is one of the best cards in Legacy, it’s just that I’m really curious WHY the DCI felt it was needed, and why at this specific moment in time. Conceptually I understand when Pros say all the honest-to-God-best-decks are Mystical decks, but the format hasn’t really reflected this yet and for a variety of reasons, it never might. Even if it did, there’s no reason why an upswing in Trinisphere/Chalice decks wouldn’t knock the format back into equilibrium. My concern isn’t so much for Mystical but rather with the lasting effect on the Legacy eco-system, so to speak, and whether or not it will continue to self-regulate effectively.
Don't worry about Trinisphere/Chalice deck. Even with monolith, they're still far too inconsistent for such a format, not to say here mid range spell are pretty used, and prison-like decks works horribly when they have to block spell AND creatures.
No offense OP, I feel the analysis in this article was lacking and incomplete in content.
Mystical Tutor can't be straight one for one replaced, the deck has to adapt either to a more controllish deck, or into a more aggressive deck.
Where is analysis of cards like Intuition? Of Hapless Researcher? Of Lim Dul's Vault? Of Breakthrough? I'm surprised that none of those cards were brought up or analyzed.
Here are two decklists from the B/U Reanimator thread that would have been better revisions to explore than the revised decklist you proposed in the article...
Controllish Reanimator...
Hyperaggressive Reanimator...Originally Posted by vikram
Why was neither the controllish, or the hyperaggressive direction brought up or explored?
Nicely done. I for one believe that "fixing" (see what I did there?) Reanimator is not a matter of just finding 4 cards to sleeve up instead of MT, the deck will probably need some serious overhaul, and your list is at the very least a step in the right direction.
Regarding Dispel; did you ever consider Spell Pierce instead? In my opinion, Spell Pierce is just about my favourite card to be printed in the entire Zen block and it has served me very, very well. Sure, it can't counter the late-game FoWs, but it is more versatile than Dispel and it is really hard to play around Spell Pierce while at the same time trying to keep you from reanimating Iona.
All in all, a solid article. Well done, sir.
Besides price, Strategic Planning looks quite solid. At least better than Lim Duls Vault. I would go up to 7 creatures definitly though. A big problem is that the deck loses an out in form of Mystical -> Echoing Truth, which cannont be overcome, as running multiple bouncespells in the maindeck is simply bad.
The deck will still be playable, but loses quite a bit of power. In conclusion i would suggest to up the protection count slighty, add another creature and a mix of Ponder and Strategic Planning.
I agree with you that Ritual is not the way to go, it would require a complete rework of the deck and tends more towards the "hyperaggresive" direction, aka more Belcher like..
BBB
Yes, I don't understand why any Reanimator deck would ever opt to play Dispel over Spell Pierce. Spell Pierce actually stops the hate cards that shut the deck down. It counters Crypts, Relics, Leylines, Wheels of Sun and Moon and all sorts of other nonsense. Dispel does nothing to stop any of the graveyard hate. Dispel doesn't even stop your opponents Duresses, and Thoughtseizes.
This might sound a tad bit crazy, but I think part of the reasoning behind banning Mystical was an indirect way to drive the price of MTGO cards such as Entomb and Lion's Eye Diamond down. I know Wotc claims to not care about the secondary market, but how is this decision anything but a direct impact on what is currently going on in MTGO. Legacy hasn't taken off online like I think they thought it would and while they can't ban Dual Lands, this is a small option at getting some of these expensive staples to lessen in price. They are currently offering cards such as Orim's Chant as promo in an attempt to lower the price of this card as well. They can't simply make every card a promo though. Like I said, maybe I'm crazy, but see no reason for its banning. Reanimator and Ant were both present online but were no more or less dominate than Goblins, Death n Taxes or Landstill.
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Jon:
I did discuss LDV in the article: "Another two-mana answer similar in function to Mystical Tutor is Lim-Dul’s Vault. Vault is interesting because you can set up your deck, making cards like Careful Study more powerful. For instance, you can Vault and put Careful Study as the first card, with a creature and reanimation spell as the next two. The issue with LDV is the potential for life loss in a deck already playing fast and loose with its life total, as well as the fact that it costs two mana. LDV helps you find cards you’re running many copies of but is worse at finding singletons like Mystical could."
Intuition is reasonable but costly in a deck with 18 mana sources, so if you’re going that route, you’re really looking to redesign the deck completely.
I don't think Breakthrough has any place in this deck or conversation about it.
Spell Pierce is very good, but it isn’t a hard counter, that’s the key difference. Dispel came out of testing against Zoo, specifically. The key difference was having a hard counter for Path to Exile game one, so that you can safely go for Sphinx and hard-counter Path to Exile. It makes that match-up very easy. Without that option, a slower build using something like Intuition is really going to struggle against Zoo. Is that really where you want to be, strategically?
I’m not anti-Spell Pierce, mind you. That card is very good as well. If Counter-Top and not Zoo becomes enemy #1, Spell Pierce becomes pretty terrific.
I also stated that I expected Graveyard hate to drop dramatically given that the majority of Reanimator players believe the deck is catastrophically ruined.
Again, this wasn’t meant to be a finished list, just a thought exercise necessitated by the Mystical banning. The actual metagame doesn’t exist yet, so drawing definitive conclusions is difficult to impossible. I also didn’t pitch it as a comprehensive re-analysis of the archetype, but rather a look at a few cards (Lim-Dul’s Vault, Ponder, Top, Personal Tutor, Strategic Planning, Daze, Dispel, Magus of the Moon, Cephalid Coliseum, Reverent Silence) that might enable the deck to stay closer to its current build against a field that is likely to be dominated by Lands and Zoo, initially, as those decks jockey with each other and CB/Top for top dog in the format.
Really like the article. I find it funny that I start toying around with Thopter/sword in a CB shell just as you propose something very similar. I need a better way to deal with fast aggro currently. Maybe some testing at AU/Portal is warranted
His idea to splash G for RWM seems like a good plan. If you don't want to splash, you can always run Kitchen Finks instead.
The warmonk helps against this aggro, as does the finks... assuming the removal doesn't hit them (much less applicable for the finks) against zoo, assuming merfolk/goblins actually care about a lone blocker (they don't). I dare say firespout post board is better, but thats for a different thread I guess
I think reanimator may be able to use Predict+rearrange the top card of the library effects. I am worried about it's speed though.
Counting on graveyard hate fading away is a risky idea. Many of the players I meet with all feel that with ANT and Reanimator losing their best card and popularity in the metagame players will shift back towards playing Dredge. I am packing a reasonable amount of graveyard hate at the GP for two reasons: Ichorid and Life from the Loam. With combo decks losing inherent broken-ness Counterbalance becomes less desirable to play, thus Loam decks like Lands, Aggro Loam and the like have a better window to be played. These decks can be effectively stunted with adequate graveyard hate. Even if you're not convinced that Loam comes back in a big way it's still embarrassing to lose to Dredge.
"Michael opens with Lotus Petal, Academy Ruins, Phyrexian Dreadnaught, and Stifle. I Force of Will the Stifle, but he has Force of Will backup. I Ponder on turn one and again on turn two, but fail to find a Swords to Plowshares before he has smashed me twice. " That's losing to Mike Sanchirico.
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Well, I think Firespout is light-years ahead if Merfolk and Goblins are your concern, and splashing into red opens up other options (like Bloodmoon and REB); green gives you RWM, who is great against Zoo, or Goyf for an alternate win-con, or other options like Krosan Grip for the mirror / quasi-mirror. I could go either way depending on the meta, or even just staying blue/white has its advantages as well.
The problem with all of the options you discussed - and the reason Reanimator will now be solidly Tier II - is that it loses two things that can't be replaced: Show and Tell as an out to graveyard hate, and speed. The former is not so much of a big deal as you can simply increase the number of bounce spells in the deck, although sideboarding is now a nightmare in some matchups because of how tight lists were already (you could get away with shaving some numbers here and there because Mystical picked up the slack and found all your hate answers). The latter is huge, though. Zoo was already just fast enough to race Reanimator in a lot of cases - for example, if Reanimator set up Iona on white, Zoo could beat down and burn out the Reanimator player, especially if Iona didn't come down on turn two or Reanimator was on the draw. Reanimator may "only" get a turn slower with the addition of Ponder/Top/Strategic Planning/LDV, but in a format where the late game can often start on turn three, a turn slower might as well be the same as just punting. Reanimator will still be fine versus slow decks, but Zoo decks with even mild amounts of graveyard hate are probably now favored.
I don't think Legacy decks will shave that much graveyard hate. Lands players, though small in number, can cruise control their way to the top tables in metagames with insufficient amounts of hate. Most decks can't really do a lot to Lands in game one, so having literally no graveyard hate to board in seems pretty loose. Plus, Dredge exists, even if only marginally.
Also, about the Counterbalance deck, I can't see how the Zoo matchup is more than 40% for you. I mean, you're a blue deck, and I'm pretty sure that someone playing your build of Zoo will just go, "lol blue" and crushinate you. Like, if you want to beat Counterbalance, just play Zoo - it's too much of a bother to tech out Counterbalance for the mirror when you can just cruise control on the back of deck that no longer has that many bad matchups. I know you addressed some of that, but I think you needed to say more about why it's worth it to have a bad matchup against the best and (probably now) most common deck in the format, at least in the top 25% of the field.
This is true only if we consider the majority of legacy players to be rational, which isn't easy to determine (if it can be determined at all). Many legacy players (especially new entrants) don't know that there are other storm decks besides ANT. Naturally, they might decide, "hey I don't need my storm hate anymore because storm died." The same might be said of graveyard based decks. Honestly, Ichorid has been out of the limelight (truly a marginal part of the metagame) for quite some time. With Reanimator now gone and Ichorid falling fast in popularity, the layman might not think to still run graveyard hate. I think the well informed players will continue to run their gravehate while the less informed players will not. If the less informed players turn out to make up the majority of the legacy meta then we might see Ichorid make a comeback, and the strength of Loam.dec increase. If so, Aggro-Loam looks god dam powerful right now.
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Well, I guess this is where my line of thinking is different than most people’s: In Philly, I built my Zoo deck to be as fast as possible and cut every sideboard card that wasn’t anti-Counterbalance / Lands / Reanimator / ANT.
Now, those decks no longer exist as they were before, as ANT is neutered and Reanimator is probably a turn slower on average.
Given that, I wouldn’t actually advocate playing my exact deck in the future, because if you run into Zoo players that acknowledge there are other Zoo players in the room, you’re probably going to lose.
Both of those decks in the article are designed for play after July 1st. In my opinion, it isn’t just the Mystical Tutor decks that are affected by that banning, it’s the entire field. Midrange gets better and goldfish gets slower.
Post July 1, would you anticipate more or less faerie macabre?
First: you're a victim of your own thinking - Reanimator isn't gone, it's just not good. If you get unlucky with your pairings or stumble and end up in the middle tables, you'll be seeing Reanimator decks.
Secondly, Legacy players are as logical as any other human, they just don't have perfect information. Legacy players will assume combo is dead because the only combo decks most of them saw were ANT decks; other combo builds like Belcher show up at very low frequency and/or don't do as well as ANT, so people are more inclined to write those decks off as being unimportant. Furthermore, most ANT pilots will switch to non-combo decks once the ban takes effect, which means that the proportion of any given metagame taken up by combo will drop. People will then drop hate because the EV you gain from having it drops due to the relative infrequency of the matchup. It makes more sense to hate out other decks and let blue strategies manage combo that to warp your sideboard for a matchup you may not see all tournament.
EDIT:
There wasn't as much Faerie Macabre anyway. Very few decks were interested in running that card over something like Crypt or Relic, which did double duty as Dredge and Loam hate. So yes, I expect less Macabre - but it's irrelevant, because there were so few of them even when they were at their most useful.
Matt, good article.
When Rich and I were testing Zoo vs. Reanimator, we were very disappointed with Daze. When Zoo rushes out of the gates and pressures the Reanimator player's life total, frequently the only realistic choice is Sphinx. Putting out a Sphinx, only to have it meet Path to Exile, was really disappointing. And Daze was not a satisfactory answer to Path because they didn't need to play Path until turn 3-4 and they had a whole bunch of land in play at the time.
Instead, what seemed the best approach was to load up on discard against Zoo, then rush for Sphinx. With discard we were able to hit those annoying Paths that our Dazes would not otherwise stop. With discard we could also be well prepared for Faerie Macabre. Suddenly the match was comfortably in Reanimator's favor. Oddly, he also had a singleton Dispel in his list too, just so he could M.Tutor for it against Zoo in preparation for reanimating Sphinx.
Anyway, I do agree that mid-range decks will be getting better. I disagree, however, that the environment will be slower.
Consider Zoo decks. It only takes 4 cards and a couple land to do this:
T1 - Nacatl
T2 - Goyf, swing for 3
T3 - Bolt+Chain for 6, swing for 6
T4 - swing for 6
Even when including "slower" cards like Sylvan Library or Jitte or Knight or whatever, the deck is still going to be fast because the backbone of the deck is so good and efficient. It's not going to be cutting cards like Nacatl or Bolt soon, and those are the exact cards that give it such speed. It will still take advantage of decks that think the format has somehow slowed down.
Note that mid-range decks didn't lose because they were slow. Mid-range decks are perfectly capable of dealing with fast starts from creature decks. They just can't deal with fast starts from sorceries and instants.
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