It'd be great with a plan to beat 'em on the ground, but otherwise it definitely doesn't fill the spot of STP/PTE. Gonna be sick in limited, that's for sure.
I'm not the zoo guru but what is wrong with running 3 REBs in the board? They are 1 mana counter/counter spells and counter/kill not only RWM but JaceTM and whatever else.
There's nothing wrong wtih REB, it can be used to great ends.
what do you guys think about Bloodbraid Elf?
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Too expensive. He is the bees knees in standard, but he's too little too late in legacy. Try him out if you want. For one mana less you can get Reliquary or Burning Tree Shaman - that probably do just as much as Bloodbraid Elf. Standard manabases are 26-27 lands, not counting mana creatures, to make sure of 4 mana on turn 4 as much as possible. Legacy you are looking at a lot less lands, no mana dudes, and possibly facing early wastelands.Originally Posted by kooaznboi1088
I'd like to chime in on how awesome Burning-Tree shaman is for Legacy Zoo. Certain matchups are turned around if you land this guy early in the game, I'm thinking mostly of Lands and CT.
What spot do you play him in? I would be interested in seeing your list, because I think that he's an interesting idea for Zoo.
I've toyed with him in my SB, it would replace a SFM/Jitte/Collar package, so three cards. My list is posted either on this page or the previous, but here it is again:
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Nacatl
4 Goyf
4 Pridemage
3 Lavamancer
3 KotR
2 Teeg
4 Bolt
4 Path
3 PoP
2 Chain Lightning
2 Fireblast
1 Library (can swap this for Dolem Gate to effect, as well)
11 Fetch
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
1 Savannah
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains
SB:
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Crypt
2 Grip
2 Choke
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Jitte
1 Basilisk collar
Again, BTS would replace the SFM package but my meta is seeing a rise in creature agro decks.
Burning Tree would most likely have to be run in the 3cc slot, which is owned by KOTR at the moment. Most people are afraid to cut the guy because he is that huge, but BTS can get through damage without attacking, especially in matchups where we need it.
I still find Counterbalance to be one hell of a bad matchup for Zoo, at least in my meta anyway.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
Indeed, my sentiment exactly.
How do you guys answer Bant? I went undefeated in a small local tournament beating Painter's Servant/Grindstone, and Enchantress of all things, but could not handle Bant in the slightest. A game one Rhox War Monk on Turn 2 was very difficult to deal with and had negated many attacks by the time I could PTE it. In game 2, He had a Spellstutter Sprite, Spell Snare, PTE, etc. etc. and 3 goyfs to my 0.
Specifically, what are your sideboard plans for this match up? I think we need to keep Teeg in and bring in a couple more as anti-EE measures. Add Pyroblast/REB? What do you take out?
Countertop really isn't that bad; Zoo's strongest weapon is its speed, and we can provide way more pressure than CT can often handle. I never have to worry about a turn 2 RWM because I always burn the Heirarch turn 1 (or 2 on the play). Also, on the play, we can get a turn 2 Pridemage before counterbalance event hits the board. Daze and FoW don't really hurt us, as daze sets them back a turn and the card disadvantage of Force often kills them against Zoo.
And yes, REB/Pyroblast are great in the board as well, as they hit both RWM and Counterbalance. I will admit that the Bant decks running 8 swords effects hurts us alot, but I'm not entirely sure how big this strategy will become by the time of the GP.
This version did not even run CB-Top. Hierarchs, Pridemages, RWM, Goyfs, Spellstutter Sprite, FoW, Swords, Brainstorm, Ponder. Out of the board he brought in PtE, Spell Pierce, and EE. I don't think I had the burn T1 to handle the Hierarch in game one.
My sideboard for the night was:
4 Mindbreak Trap (We have had a lot of Belcher, etc. running around)
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre (Usually there is a Dredge deck as well, but not tonight)
2 Price of Progress (None in the main, but I am going to rethink this. Tonight it would have been golden and I often boarded them in)
2 Gaddock Teeg (Belcher and other combo)
2 Krosan Grip (Boarded these in a lot for Enchantress and Painter's/Grindstone)
I am thinking of dropping a crypt and moving the Prices main for 3 Pyroblast. I am currently running the SFM/Jitte/Collar Maindeck. I think I will drop that for the Prices and maybe add one Sylvan Library back in.
3 Steppe Lynx were good most of the night, but when I really needed them to be beefy, fetchlands were nowhere to be found. Figure of Destiny as a 2 of, perhaps. I am really torn. It is great to swing for four on turn 2, but it sucks when they become normal to paltry later on.
You can also try out Dolem Gate for funsies in lieu of Library. As good as Library is, getting your duders through is way more important than drawing/sifting cards. Sounds like a good plan to cut the SFM package for 3 REB's, you loose a great combo but shore up some major weaknesses.
Burning Tree Shamans in the side is interesting - the builds I've seen have Burning Tree Shamans in the main, sometimes with Knights in the side to bring in when Shaman is underwhelming. My problem with Shaman in the main has been how he is significantly weaker in the mirror than Knight. Against Counterbalance he seems to eat a Swords a lot of the time, although I guess if they are having to save Swords for him and letting the early drops get more beats in then he's already done his job. He seems best against Lands, but I'd suggest the fourth Price in the board before Shamans.
Are you still running the same list you posting on 5/4 with three Grips? I try to fit a full set of Grips in the board if I can. I also think the more aggressive Lynx/Fireblast/PoP builds are a bit better positioned against Counterbalance, where they are more likely to stabilize in burn range. (At the cost of a weaker mirror match)
Yeah I agree that he's interesting, but he doesn't capitalize on his ability like KotR does. There is so much synergy wtih Kotr and the rest of the deck that the only reason I could forsee a swap is that I dirly want BTS to work. While I'm familiar with how the Lands deck plays, what is the best option for Zoo to beat it? To burn it out with PoP, aggressively fetching your own basics to prevent a wasteland lock, while throwing duders infront of their factories?
And I can attest to the Lynx/FB/Pop matchups for CbT, Lynx is an all-star. FB and PoP clean up nicely, but Lynx can easily get them to 10 by the time they have CB/T on the table. Then it is a few tight plays away from GG
The Lands matchup is that MISERABLE, so you're assessment is right. The only way I've figured out how to win is PoP. Some builds even run a maindeck Zuran Orb that they can Intuition for. It's a real tough fight. If you expect ALOT of land, then try out some form of Blood Moon/Ravenous Trap in the SB.
Edit: And obviously PoP >.<
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
The Tabernacle's price is keepign the deck from being overly popular. And if the deck doesn't run at least one Tab, then it probably isn't worth playing. Grips are pretty sweet for Zuran orbs, I was just wondering how the matchup plays out with which, if any outs Zoo has against it. PoP it is then, I have three maindeck, but I can definitely find room for the 4th somewhere. PoP is nuts. Do they even have tech for Zoo? Or is it one of those cakewalk matchups they hope to play all day (like us vs. 'folk)
I think the best builds of Lands is the blue version with Tolarian West and Intuition. They can just go get Loam, Academy Ruins, and Zuran Orb, and you're pretty much fucked. Grip is worthless because of the recursion they have. For Zoo yeah it's pretty fucking insane for them even preboard.
Dead or Alive, you're coming with me.
-Robocop-
Oh yeah, forgot about Ruins, disregard my previous comment.
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