Caller of the Claw requires you to keep mana up, which is all kinds of awkward.
Magic Level 3 Judge
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Originally Posted by frogboy
Stupid question: Can i declare an elf as blocker vs Naught, then put him to hand with symbiote and don`t get any damage?
you still get trample damage :o
Really? I thought trample damage, like any other damage, only comes when the damage step comes. If blockers are declared and you bounce your elf before damage then no damage is dealt, right? A blocked creature is a blocked creature. I use the same tricks to block creatures equipped with Jitte and not give my opponent Jitte counters.
I'd like to learn from this aswell then.
702.17c If an attacking creature with trample is blocked, but there are no creatures blocking it when
damage is assigned, all its damage is assigned to the player or planeswalker it’s attacking.
You were right. I wasn't aware of this ruling. However, you can still bounce your blocker before damage to keep a Jitte from acquiring counters.
Would going pure combo be better, or would adding cards like jitte or elvish champion maindeck to give an aggro plan to fall back on.
Also, whats better as a finisher? Grapeshot, Tendrils, or the dragon.
And hows Hunting pack? 5 tokens are you pretty much win next turn.
Last edited by AznSeal; 07-10-2010 at 12:18 PM.
Unless the Jitte-wielder has Trample. Luckily that's rarely the case.
None of the 3 is a good finisher :D! Play Jorega Warcaller as win-con. Its a strong lord when you for exemple, drop it on turn 3 with 7 mana or smthn. And just run stuff to support your aggro matches in your sb, 2 lords and maybe some jittes if you want.
But Jorega is the best win-con you can run IMO, you just have to make the choice if you want to run geae' cradles or not. I dont own them so I dont play them atm, but I might if they are good in testing.
.. I just don't know what to say about the stupidity of this post...
To answer the question which win con is the best - it depends on the build. I still think that Grapeshot along with Eternal Witness is the way to go in a real pure combo elves deck.
? Im saying that, I tested all 3 of those, and IMO they are not as good as Warcaller. Whats stupid about that?
And dont you agree that if you fail to combo, you like to go agro? And how good would it be if your wincon, in other cases now a dead card, is very strong when you go agro also?
Moat makes you lose. Any removal spell in the format...makes you lost Warcaller. While it is strong, it doesn't fix what needs to be fixed. Pumping a bunch of mana into an elf that will just be counterspelled is bad.
I run Emrakul because it is just funny. But I prefer Grapeshot. Emrakul does have the merit of being a late top deck ftw, wheras Grapeshot doen't.
How are Combo Elves' matchups? It looks to me like it would fold to control, so is that the case? Obviously, while not as fast as the top tier combo decks, it looks fast enough to have favorable matchups against aggro decks, but does it have any advantages over the more common combo decks?
No. My version runs 4 maindeck Leyline of Lifeforce. You beat control because all of your dudes, especially the important ones can't be countered. But even with out leyline, you can usually drop enough dudes to put them on a clock. Especially if you resolve glimpse.
Aggro is a great match up, unless they go turn 1 Lava Mancer, turn 2 Jitte (ZAIEM BEG!)....and then drop Ethersworn Cannonist. But usually, you can find answers to them all. Gobbos is basically a bye unless they run the Sharpshooter, then its hard.
And combo....well...
So we do have decent match up against control and aggro. Against control, try not to over extend into WoG effects. I board in Fecundity and it fixes that problem as I can overextend all I want if I resolve Fecundity. Aggro...you run the combo or just overwhelm them g1, and I Bring it Jitte, Mirror Entity, and Chord of Calling Game 2. Sometimes we can rock Fecundity. Either way, it only gets better.
I have only fooled around with Elves a little, but in my oppinion the deck is inferior to other storm/combo decks.
I think the main problems are:
- Engine is based on creatures -> Plague, Explosives, Firespout etc. = bad times (I know it's completely possible to play around those, but still a big problem)
- Relatively slow and no mainboard disruption = death to other combo decks
- If the deck doesn't want to roll over to stuff like Glacial Chasm, it'll have to use an off-color storm card as wincon. A draw that is 100% dead for most of the game.
- Has to hope for topdecked Krosan Grips against Counterbalance/Top, otherwise it's stone cold dead to it. (now that Mystical is gone, other Storm decks also have bigger difficulties dealing with CB, but atleast these decks can dig for answers with Brainstorm/Ponder and have alternate routes to victory, like Shelldock/Emrakul)
cant you put in the living wish package and use the SB to answer the threats?
You have it mostly right. The deck is not a pure combo deck in the traditional sense. I would call it aggro-combo if anything. True, you are weak to Firespout/E.Plague and whatever other creature hate, but that's just the cost of the hybrid style of the deck. Those cards beat you like they beat any other aggro deck. But you also get the strengths of a combo deck. This versatility is what makes the deck unique.
True, but if your meta is that full of combo then you probably shouldn't play this deck anyway.- Relatively slow and no mainboard disruption = death to other combo decks
Most builds use an off-color wincon anyway. Banefire beats Chasm and I've personally used Primal Command a few times to get the Chasm out of my face. Janky, yeah, but whatever works.- If the deck doesn't want to roll over to stuff like Glacial Chasm, it'll have to use an off-color storm card as wincon. A draw that is 100% dead for most of the game.
I actually haven't ever had trouble against Counterbalance. I bring in Leyline of Lifeforce out of the sideboard and ignore CB/top. Works great against Chalice of the Void as well. The bigger problem against those decks are the recurring EE's and Firespouts they run against you. Firespout sucks and you just gotta race it. But I bring in Pithing Needles against EE.- Has to hope for topdecked Krosan Grips against Counterbalance/Top, otherwise it's stone cold dead to it. (now that Mystical is gone, other Storm decks also have bigger difficulties dealing with CB, but atleast these decks can dig for answers with Brainstorm/Ponder and have alternate routes to victory, like Shelldock/Emrakul)
All that said, I don't think anybody is playing this deck with hopes of it becoming the next big combo deck. We play these green dudes knowing full well that the whole thing is kinda janky and funny, but that makes it all the more entertaining to play.
This deck has the advantage in that it can beat out super slow control decks like lands and landstill thanks to death by 1/1s. However, Counter/Top is one of the hardest match-ups, simply because this deck cannot deal well with any deck that packs goyf + removal. The best part about the deck is while some of the combo decks are faster, they fold harder to control decks because those decks can't do anything if they get disrupted. While you can bring in something janky like leyline of the lifeforce, I would much rather use NO.
The deck is fast if the other person doesn't have removal or doesn't know how to play against the deck. Pretty much aggro decks that pack red are really hard to win against because they can remove all the essential elf combo pieces. Goblins vary from bye (traditional red builds) to almsot as bad as zoo (R/b with lightning bolts and weirdings and perish).
Aggro/Control MUs vary. UGr Thresh builds destroy us (fire is too broken), while something like new horizons is much more manageable.
Combo is hard cus other combo decks are usually faster.
This deck has potential. I think we should look into another approach to get our combo pieces since this deck basically folds if it doesnt draw a glimpse.
The first plan is the NO+Progenitus.
I have been thinking and has anyone thought of
1. Splashing blue for Personal Tutor, Brainstorm, Ponder, maybe force?
2. Splashing red for burning wish which is ok for some SB answers as well as 3 more chances at drawing glimpse
3. Using living wish to protect yourself until you can stall out time to draw glimpse
4. Or just add jittes/lords main deck to have an aggro fallback plan.
Did you play any games with this deck, yet? Did you read any posts in this thread yet?
Ok, some input:
50% of us play NO/Prog
30% play Warcallers
and the rest play Aggro elves
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