[Deck] Non-LED Based Dredge/Ichorid Combo

[indefinite.soul]

I don't think Leyline is a real card.

Not here. Champ is comming and Leyline is sold out on the stores...

[sunshine]

Proper mulling with this deck is the most important thing, even more important than proper SBing, I'd say. In my report up there, R4G1, I shipped back hand after hand, because they all lacked crucial things - Mull to 4 presented me Land, Dredger, Outlet, Draw. What else can you ask for?

clicky

Also, I do agree that proper mulliganing is one of the most important things with this deck. I just happen to think a lot of pilots do it too often (read: incorrectly).

I mulligan all the time, and I don't mulligan enough. Any hand with Narcomeobas in your hand has a few blanks already, so the mulligans are free. And if you're DDDing, you have a ton of blanks in your hand. Going to 6 and even 5 is not really a big deal.

I think we're talking about different things when we say DDD. I'm refering to what happens when you you draw an eight card, must then discard at the end of your turn, then replace your next draw with a dredge (as opposed to using PImp/Tribe/whatever-discard-outlet to fuel your dredging). Going to 6 or 5 makes this option much less appealing.

To be honest, even with a hand of Land, Dredger, Draw, PImp, X, X, X I will 99% of the time choose to DDD at first when on the draw against an opponent who drops an Island.

[Anusien]

Obviously that's what DDD means. But if you do it, you're basically blanking all the Cabal Therapy/Dread Returns/Bridge from Below/Ichorids/etc you have in your hand. Maybe over the course of the game you'll be able to discard one. It's a really awful play to make.

[sunshine]

Just because you decide to start with DDD doesn't mean you don't have lands and the ability to cast Therapies, permanent discard outlets, draw spells, and even creatures later on. I never choose to be on the draw but if I find myself there and my opponent's first turn signals countermagic I'm very reluctant to try and resolve a discard outlet when in reality I already have one if I haven't mulled. Of course there are situations where you have multiple outlets and don't really care if one or two get countered.

Going DDD turn one when on the draw and waiting until turn two to play PImp/Tribe doesn't actually put you behind in dredging (unless you have draw spells as well - but if you're resolving all this stuff game one you're winning anyway, and game two you should have an idea of what your opponent is playing) - but it potentially saves you from being blown out of a single FoW or Daze.

Once you start dredging into more dredgers, which shouldn't be too tall of an order, there's no reason you can't get whatever other cards you need from your hand into the graveyard. Also, DReturning PImp/Tribe is a fine play if the situation calls for it.

[Anusien]

If you DDD turn 1 and brick (don't hit another dredger), are you going to then play Land, Imp? And walk into Force/Daze? Plus, what if the 7 card hand didn't have an Imp or a Tribe? Snap keeping your 7 because it has a dredger in it is wrong. You shouldn't be afraid to mull to 6. This deck mulligans better than any deck in the format.

[indefinite.soul]

If you DDD turn 1 and brick (don't hit another dredger), are you going to then play Land, Imp? And walk into Force/Daze? Plus, what if the 7 card hand didn't have an Imp or a Tribe? Snap keeping your 7 because it has a dredger in it is wrong. You shouldn't be afraid to mull to 6. This deck mulligans better than any deck in the format.

What if in your 6 you still don't? Then you are a one extra turn away form DDD. And mullingan to less (5, 4), maybe you wont have 2 discard outlet, or maybe you have, but no dredge.

Deep inside I know you are right. But i never had a happy experience mulligan for less than 5...

[frogboy]

Obviously that's what DDD means. But if you do it, you're basically blanking all the Cabal Therapy/Dread Returns/Bridge from Below/Ichorids/etc you have in your hand. Maybe over the course of the game you'll be able to discard one. It's a really awful play to make.

Against most Blue decks you can usually discard between two and five spells, and decks like Landstill can't really take advantage of it effectively.

[lotriderm]

Against most Blue decks you can usually discard between two and five spells, and decks like Landstill can't really take advantage of it effectively.

Do you mean you usually DDD for 2-5 turns against more blue decks?

[frogboy]

Do you mean you usually DDD for 2-5 turns against more blue decks?

If I don't have any spells I can cast from my hand, sure. Ideally you'll have spells or at least two lands so that you can get constructive with Golgari Thug or whatever, but sometimes things don't go your way etc

[(nameless one)]

I am planning to bring this tomorrow at a local tournament (given I can leave early from work and I won't be at the GP :( )

4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Colisseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
4 Golgari Grave-troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid

4 Nacromoeba
4 Bridge from Below

4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Terastodon

Sideboard:
4 Nature's Claim
4 Path to Exile
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Ancestor's Chosen

I am expecting an aggro-field (Zoo/Goblins/random weenie decks) with traces of control (possibly Blue-based or Black-based - this will be the same player and a Lands player)

Any comments?

Card choices:

Its essentially an identical stock list but I have some main/sideboard switches.

Iona and Terastodon: I felt that these 2 cards will be important. I always see either Iona or Terastodon on main. Never seen both on main together. They're both good cards, so why not try?

Golgari Thug vs. Darkblast: Im not really sure if Darkblast really helps. I like having three Thugs as they also count as Ichorid fodder.

Path to Exile vs. Swords to Plowshares/Darkblast: Nidd used StP on his sideboard and he said it was effective enough. I am expecting gravehate in the form of hatebears. Ichorid usually go for the aggro win, so I am trying to prevent as much life-gain. I think Path to Exile would be better since that land that you are giving them might not play a role anyways. If you have anything against this idea, please let me know.

Ancient Grudge/Nature's Claim: I am not sure if this is overkill but I think running 7 enchantment hate + maindecked Terastodon should help with such problematic permanents.

Faerie Macabre: This used to be Coffin Purge since it has flashback but I think Faerie Macabre is a better choice. It also serves as Ichorid fodder. The question is would Leyline of the Void be a better gravehate card?

Ancestor's Chosen: Its going to be an aggro-field.

If you guys have anything to add, please feel free. This will be the first time I will be piloting the deck on a tournament. Any advices are welcome.

PS. If I have two Ichorids on the yard, can I fodder Ichorid B to Ichorid A (or does Ichorid's text apply to all Ichorids in the yard)?

Thank in advance!

[Nidd]

Path to Exile vs. Swords to Plowshares/Darkblast: Nidd used StP on his sideboard and he said it was effective enough. I am expecting gravehate in the form of hatebears. Ichorid usually go for the aggro win, so I am trying to prevent as much life-gain. I think Path to Exile would be better since that land that you are giving them might not play a role anyways. If you have anything against this idea, please let me know.

Ancient Grudge/Nature's Claim: I am not sure if this is overkill but I think running 7 enchantment hate + maindecked Terastodon should help with such problematic permanents.

Faerie Macabre: This used to be Coffin Purge since it has flashback but I think Faerie Macabre is a better choice. It also serves as Ichorid fodder. The question is would Leyline of the Void be a better gravehate card?

PS. If I have two Ichorids on the yard, can I fodder Ichorid B to Ichorid A (or does Ichorid's text apply to all Ichorids in the yard)?!

PtE VS StP really comes down to personal preference, I think. Ramping your opponent can be quite bad, on the other hand, giving him some life can also be lethal. However, if given the choice between giving my opponent 1 land VS 2/4 life, I'd rather give him the lifepoints, as that land could mean that he can both play hate and a threat this turn.

I'd suggest you look into Chain of Vapor for the SB. I like Claim over grudge, because when I can get grudge in my yard and flash it back, it looks good anyways and i can cast Claim off a single land, while Grudge would need a discard outlet to do that. Also, Chain handles random things you may encounter - reset a Grunt, or bounce a Jailer. Utility is the key here.

Faerie sounds great, however, how many other GY decks will be there? If there are some other Dredge players, go for Leyline - many people don't see it coming and just scoop it up G2.

@PS: Works.

[Darksteel]

So I'm still not sure what to sideboard out for anti-hate cards. I've heard people suggest Careful Study, but that seems counter intuitive, since it digs for your SB cards. Everything else seems so important for the deck, that I'm not sure what the best card is to take out.

Also, you would say a hand with a dredger, rainbow land, draw spell, and outlet is the ideal hand? Regardless, what should I be looking for to have in my hand?

Here is my list I plan using tomorrow at a local tournament (well, technically later today):

4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths (Iffy on this one)

4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

Cookie-cutter for the most part, but I'm not sure on the sideboard. I can't get any Firestorms, so other than those, what would you guys recommend for an unknown metagame's sideboard?

[sa17dk]

Hey everyone,

I'm building a dredge deck and was wondering what everyone thought on the number of Ichorids in the MD? I usually see 4 but I've also seen many lists going down to 3. What are the pros and cons? (not including Bloodghast versions)

[Rune]

So I'm still not sure what to sideboard out for anti-hate cards. I've heard people suggest Careful Study, but that seems counter intuitive, since it digs for your SB cards. Everything else seems so important for the deck, that I'm not sure what the best card is to take out.

Also, you would say a hand with a dredger, rainbow land, draw spell, and outlet is the ideal hand? Regardless, what should I be looking for to have in my hand?

Here is my list I plan using tomorrow at a local tournament (well, technically later today):

4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths (Iffy on this one)

4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

Cookie-cutter for the most part, but I'm not sure on the sideboard. I can't get any Firestorms, so other than those, what would you guys recommend for an unknown metagame's sideboard?

You should replace one of your Dread Return targets for something that deals with annoying permanents (Angel of Despair/Woodfall Primus/Terrastodon). It sucks to have zero outs against Blazing Archon, Ensnaring Bridge, Moat Glacial Chasm etc.

I normally side out all Careful Studies, some Dread Return targets and sometimes a copy of Dread Return if I need to board more than 4+ cards.

I'd board out Breakthrough instead of Study against blue decks, though, since it helps punching through counters.

Against combo decks (that don't play hate), bring in Unmask (if you have it) and board out some of the cards that are too slow; some number of Ichorids and some Tribes.

[Nidd]

So I'm still not sure what to sideboard out for anti-hate cards. I've heard people suggest Careful Study, but that seems counter intuitive, since it digs for your SB cards. Everything else seems so important for the deck, that I'm not sure what the best card is to take out.

Also, you would say a hand with a dredger, rainbow land, draw spell, and outlet is the ideal hand? Regardless, what should I be looking for to have in my hand?

Here is my list I plan using tomorrow at a local tournament (well, technically later today):

4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Flame-kin Zealot
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths (Iffy on this one)

4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

Cookie-cutter for the most part, but I'm not sure on the sideboard. I can't get any Firestorms, so other than those, what would you guys recommend for an unknown metagame's sideboard?

Problem is that you play 2 bad DR targets MB.
FKZ is the definition of win-more, I've never had a game where I thought "dang man, all you need to win is a FKZ..." because usually, when you can snort out massive amounts of zombies, the opponent is dead next turn anyways, there's no need for cute tricks like giving them haste etc. The only MU where FKZ comes in handy is Combo.
Sphinx, again, is bad. When you have the ressources to reanimate a creature with such a bad body simply to dredge, you should've overcome the hate already and are winning, other creatures that can support that plan are plain better.
Iona is decent. I don't like her MB, though, as she doesn't provide utility, she protects you from nasty stuff and creates virtual CA, but neither do you need G1. better play Terastodon or Woodfall Primus or Angel of Despair, which can help you seal the deal in MUs which can be hard G1 (Enchantress, Lands).

Pulling these 2 bad DR targets and replacing Iona with something more useful enables you to cut 1 DR and add 1 CS.

I normally side out all Careful Studies, some Dread Return targets and sometimes a copy of Dread Return if I need to board more than 4+ cards.

I found myself to be siding out 2 Thugs and 1 Ichorid quite often. Siding out 2 Thugs has a big benefit: You can safely side out 1 Ichorid because the fodder for them gets lower. Then you can take out 4 CS/4BT, depending on the MU and ta-daa, you have created 7 slots you can fill.

[Sprite]

Here is my build:

Dredge.dec


4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel

#14

4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Terastodon

#27

4 Bridge from Below
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
3 Dread Return

#19

Sideboard:

4 Chain of Vapor
4 Nature's Claim
1 Ancestor´s Chosen
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
5 xxx

#10

I would need 5 sb card´s.

If I would board in
+ 4 Chain of Vapor
+ 4 Nature´s Claim

what can I board our?
- xxx

On the last Tournemant there was: (28 Players)

1 Dreadstill with Jace
2-3 Land.dec
1 Survival
2 Solidarity
1 Merfolk
1 Burn
1 Entchantress
2 Decks like Rock with Rhox War Monk
1 ANT
...

[Aleksandr]

I played the Bloodghast buils to (not a great) success today. I thought of DDFT, but when I've seen the blue filed and imagined the horror of building the piles, etc. I sleeved this Ichorid.

I met Burn (he played for the tourney for the first time, I Iona him both times); lost to Survival (g1 he drawn nothing but lands and discard, g2 fast Hydra, g3 he won with topdecked Frog), draw with something, defeated Merfolks, lost to Ninjas (double Relic g2, triple Relic g3), won with Tempo Thrash (very satisfying game3), lost to Bant O_O

I played Null Rods in side, they never did anything significant. Ghasts are bad, they can be powerful in T1, where there are less chumpers and they come into the BF via Bazaar, but here they suck.

I got problem with siding, I always want to take so many cardss... Rods, Grudges, etc., and I dilute the deck.

I played it after... half a year or so? I'm pretty sure I didn't play it since spring at least. without any testing and having bad version (there are no Citadels in our area... ) it is not that bad.

there were two more Dredges inthere (out of... IDK, some 50+ players), one went 1:2 drop.


I played Serenity sb, because of the Stax/Stompy/Tress decks, but never met one.

Good luck guys with the deck, I like it, shame that there is no tech to make g2+3 better. I once heard of the Gargadon board, but never tried it and in fact, iI don't really like it...


--

EDIT: If only I had the DarkBlast, I could maybe won the SotF matchup against Frog-lock, but whatever...

[addaro]

Aleksandr: was it at Zuzys legacy? Dindt you go for a "kung pao with rice" with someone?

[Aleksandr]

Yeah. :-)

No, I stayed on a tourney and went for the triple beer after the show.

[Qax]

I got 9:th place in the MOCS with 8-2 and the following deck.

I played 3 RDW, 1 GB Elves, 2 cbtopthopter(1 loss), 1 GW Aggro/Midrange, 1 UBw faeries(loss), 1 Mirror, 1 Merfolk

CREATURES (26)
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Tireless Tribe
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
4 Bridge from Below
SORCERIES (14)
4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
INSTANTS (2)
2 Darkblast
LANDS (14)
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Tarnished Citadel
SIDEBOARD
3 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Nature’s Claim
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Angel of Despair
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Ancestor’s Chosen

I like 12 dredgers for consistency and 2 darkblasts seems nice to be having main.