[Mechanic discussion] Infect

[Darkenslight]

As noted on the mothership and MTGSal.

The mechanic is a combination of Wither (deals damage to creatures as -1/-1 counters) and Poison (deals damage to players as poision couters). Seems like a pretty strong mechanic, especially when combined with Double-strike. I fully expect this to be on the speculated 'Phyrexian' cards from Scars of Mirrodin

EDIT: Just noticed that the thread title is misspelled. Could a Moderator please modify this? thanks.

[caiomarcos]

I liked the idea!

Poison was always something I enjoyed. Who never had a poison deck???

This could be promising with all the pump effects we have available, one hit + Colossal Might + Stonewood Invocation + Giant Growth and such is GG. Also note that it's not restricted to combat damage so Fling, Pandemonium and similars also work here.

But I'm sure all this excitement will be gone when they print 0/1 critters costing 5 mana.

[dahcmai]

Well, I for one loved Poison and have been waiting for it for a long time. I just hope they fix it's inherent problems to make it a little more fun and not just slap it on crappy creatures because it's overpowered if it's on anything good.

We knew Poison was going to be back in Scars a long time ago, just didn't have a clue what Scars was called at the time. Maro sure called that one long before it was due. I think that was like 4 years ago or something.

Anyway, they just need to not accidentally break it now. Poison is one of those things that can easily get broken. I like the Wither tie in though. I'm not so sure on the purpose of having it deal counters instead of damage though since it only makes a difference in damage prevention (so it's basically loss of life) and it changes how some enchantments work if placed on it. I'd have to see one to tell if it's a pointless thing done for flavor or if it has some benefit beyond the damage thing.

[swoop]

Maybe some thing more like sharpshooter+enchantment that gives poison shooting + few critters to sac = dead player.

[Humphrey]

I like the mechanic, but I dont think we see any playable cards with this Keyword. It might be to overpowered. On the other site, we might see a new Archetype like Affinity, killing only with Poison. (Berserkstompy with Poison Creatures)

[Infinitium]

Nah. They won't print low-cmc creatures with passable stats to go with this on the off chance it breaks pump spells in half, and since they don't deal normal damage to players they won't play well with non-infectious creatures as win conditions. Nice flavor though.

[Sims]

If this block is supposed to be the re-rise of Phyrexia, then this could be printed on a cycle of cards that could be similar to the Plaguebringers in Urza's block. Instead of tapping and sacing creatures to put -1/-1 counters on them, they have infectious creatures that they spread amongst the plane ala The Scourge trying to spread the plague in Warcraft 3.

[sam.]

I'm personally really looking forward to try and brew something for Standard and Legacy. Poison Aggro / Combo just sounds like it has potential.

[Barook]

I seriously dobut that there are going to be enough low-costed Infect cards that don't suck. Maybe one that is cheap enough, but is unplayable in Legacy due to the lack of decent support otherwise.

PS: Infect + pump = sexy

But so is double strike.

[Malchar]

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet or not, but the big change from the old poisonous keyword is that infect doesn't stack, which makes it less likely to be broken. Overall, it seems like an efficient combination of two existing mechanics. Sure it would be nice if they always made new things, but once in a while it's nice to reuse old mechanics, especially since it has been made more efficient. Hopefully this time around we get some eternal playables with the mechanic. The main problem is that it seems really unlikely for the poisonous to be efficient in legacy. For example, in zoo, you can probably kill someone even faster if you just use undercosted fatties instead of the likely overcosted infect creatures.

[Eddy Wally]

I don't care if the entire set sucks ass, I have literally been waiting for the return of poison since 1997. Finally!!!!!

[Valtrix]

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet or not, but the big change from the old poisonous keyword is that infect doesn't stack, which makes it less likely to be broken.

In a way yes. A creature can't stack with poisonous 2 and poisonous 2, but now the damage happens as poisonous counters. This means your 5/5 is putting five counters on at a time and turns into a two-turn clock. With infect, pumping your guy increases the number of counters, which in a way seems way more abusable than stacking poisonous triggers. That said it still probably won't be enough to matter for legacy.

[paK0]

We have about 500 great mechanics they could redo but they choose two of the dumbest?

I can deal with Wither, but I despise Poison. Hopefully all Cards with it have CMC 4 or more so I don't have to put up with this crap.

[AngryTroll]

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet or not, but the big change from the old poisonous keyword is that infect doesn't stack, which makes it less likely to be broken.

Does this mean the 4x Virulent Sliver 1x Heart Sliver finish doesn't work with Protean Hulk anymore?

[Atwa]

Does this mean the 4x Virulent Sliver 1x Heart Sliver finish doesn't work with Protean Hulk anymore?

It'll stil work. Infest is just another ability which gives poison counters to a player. As far as the info we have right now, the old keywork won't be adjusted.

[Sims]

We have about 500 great mechanics they could redo but they choose two of the dumbest?

I can deal with Wither, but I despise Poison. Hopefully all Cards with it have CMC 4 or more so I don't have to put up with this crap.

Lose a few too many times while still learning to the guy playing Naf's Asp and Pit Scorpions?

<3 Poison. It's one of my favorite mechanics that I wish they used more. There's a lot of design space that they didn't explore with it, such as cards that would grant you an ability by giving yourself poison counters, good creatures with poison (or infect), ways of cleansing poison counters, etc... even a Threshold style card might be cool, like a card that says.. say

Venomous Draught, 1UB
Draw 3 cards. Discard 2 cards unless you add 2 poison counters, if you do, discard 1 card instead.

Yeah, that card is probably pretty OP as it is, but poison counters were a design space they never explored that I felt they should have. It gave us another resource to exploit (or worry about) and gives decks another angle at victory. I mean they push mill to hell and back and it's still not really a truly competitive path to victory.. I'd love to see them find a way of pushing Poison as an alternate wincon.

[Barook]

Getting poison counters as a drawback for a good effect is bad design, unless you get lots of counters per effect. It's just way too abuseable in a format without poison decks (which is very likely for eternal formats).

On another note: Damn, I'm excited about the new Mox Opal.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Getting poison counters as a drawback for a good effect is bad design, unless you get lots of counters per effect. It's just way too abuseable in a format without poison decks (which is very likely for eternal formats).

On another note: Damn, I'm excited about the new Mox Opal.

I don't know, poison counters as a drawback is actually pretty awesome from a design standpoint. There are some effects that fit in between that pay 1 life and pay 1 more mana range, also it allows them to print awesome effects and be able to ensure they won't go infinite or be playable more than a certain # of times per game. Example Earthcraft like card with poison counter drawback, OP draw card that adds 4-5 poison counters, OP enchantment with poison counter upkeep, Black Vise with poison counters (LOL), OP creature that adds a poison counter for every damage he takes, and of course in T2 duals with poison counters. Poison counters as a drawback to me is much more exciting than poison counters as a wincon because it makes an easy out for WoTC to keep certain types of cards from being easily broken. [sarcasm] Maybe they can make a Land Tax with a poison counter drawback so we can finally have access to that totally broken card in Legacy without it completely ruining the format [/sarcasm]

[Pinder]

On another note: Damn, I'm excited about the new Mox Opal.

My first guess is that it's a mox that taps for colorless. They already have a Mox for each color, Chrome Mox for selecting a color, and Mox Diamond for 5 color.

Of course, an unrestricted Mox with no real drawback, even if it only taps for colorless, would still be fucking busted. There has to be some kind of other drawback.

And they'll almost certainly print a way to remove or get rid of poison counters, otherwise all infect creatures are essentially double the size of their normal counterparts and it's impossible to gain that "life" back.

[Barook]

My first guess is that it's a mox that taps for colorless. They already have a Mox for each color, Chrome Mox for selecting a color, and Mox Diamond for 5 color.

Of course, an unrestricted Mox with no real drawback, even if it only taps for colorless, would still be fucking busted. There has to be some kind of other drawback.

Looks multi-colored to me. Probably this time, you have to discard an Artifact card, making it a Mox Diamond variant.