[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[Justin]

My full list is posted on the previous page. I do play a set of Wasteland, in addition to Sinkhole, and Vindicate. Mana denial is one of the major reasons to play this deck.

I like Sword of Body and Mind as a one-of that Stoneforge Mystic can fetch. A 2/2 guy is fine, especially in a deck that runs a lot of equipment. The mill effect might even win you games when you are playing against Dredge and Loam decks because it can remove their entire library.

[sporenfrosch1411]

let me point out something else that can be regarded obvious but needs to get spoken out:
Sword of Body and Mind produces guys that it can be attached to. That in fact IS great in my opinion ;)

I´d NOT consider it good versus dredge though. They will win instantly once u milled 10 cards ;)
Loam is the same thing, it will EXPLODE after having u mill 10-20 cards. 100% board em out versus those 2 decks :)


@Sinkhole
I really dont know about sinkhole. Sure its THE best Land Destruction, together with vindicate and wasteland it CAN be devastating. But after round 3 or 4 it often turns out to be a horrible draw :/
Its the kind of card you want to play turn 1 and 2 (just like ritual often is) and kinda NOT want to topdeck further on...

[caiomarcos]

When we look at the Decks to Beat (in general, nothing too meta-like) we can assume that a wasteland is very nice except versus Merfolk (and Vial-Goblins). I would much rather add a fetchie or two to stabilize the manabase before i´d cut wasteland below 3.

Wasteland is the best thing against Mutavault since Strip Mine. Jokes aside, I do think that Wasteland is very nice against merfolk, a little narrow but a very good answer for a difficult to deal and very annoying threat.

[sporenfrosch1411]

Lol yeah, ofc mutavaults :)
Kinda forgot about them, getting stomped so often by Coralhelm Commander, Lord of Atlantis and Cursecatcher (was it cursecatcher, not sure about name atm :D )

You are right, it is also good versus merfolk.

Which underlines my point even more i guess...

Dont cut wastelands :D

[EssKay]

Basically all LD is dead late in the game unless you're dedicating so much of the deck to it that you can keep them from stabilizing for multiple turns.

So, if you want to run Sinkhole and Wasteland, you should gear your deck more towards an explosive start and speed, and hope to win before you get drawn into a situation where half your deck is dead.

[keys]

I've been reading this thread and I like the card choices, especially SFM here. I tried cutting down what I thought were the frivolous cards to the get the core:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Gatekeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3-4 Stoneforge Mystic

4 Sword to Plowshares
4 Inquisition of Kozilek/Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Taurach
3 Vindicate

3-4 Bitterblossom
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Scrubland
6 Swamp
1 Plains

This looks pretty solid to me. I don't see a need for Abyssal Gatekeeper or Dark Depths... flyers and equipment should be sufficient to deal lethal. I really like the 11 maindeck removal (not including equipment) which should make for a strong aggro matchup. The deck probably has trouble against CounterTop with no 1 drops and a low curve, although Vindicate helps.

[Mono_Thematic]

@Keys:
The flavor side of me love the list, but the practical side of me thinks that its going to suffer greatly against Zoo, Burn/Sligh, and any Combo deck in G1.
-Zoo has more than enough removal to handle all of your weenie threats (including BB), and so long as they can land one decent beater through your removal you'll be done with
-Other Burn heavy decks can't handle your BB so you have an advantage there (especially with equipment) but 8 fetch, Dark Confidant, BB, and especially thoughtseize all put yourself into burn range very quickly.
-Deadguy has no answer to T1 Trinisphere, CotV @1, or the nutz draw from ANT/DDFT/ect. But your list is especially vulernable as you only run 4 T1 discard spells, which means they can (potentially) go off on T1 or T2 against you. Seeing as how Show-Tell-Eldrazi is getting more popular I think you'd need to respect these MU's and increase the discard package (and cross your fingers if your on the draw).

Personnally I'd make the following changes:
- 4 Vampire Nighthawk -> + 3-4 Abyssal Persecutor (I've run 4 APs before using StoP, Gatekeeper, Vindicate package for removal and it worked fine. Just remember to never play more than one at a time [you usually never need more than one anyways]).
- 1 SFM/-1 BB/-1 Jitte -> + 2-3 Duress/TS/IoK. Consistantly having first turn action will help out tons against... everything except Dredge.

Just my thoughts is all.
-Mono

[sporenfrosch1411]

Why would you cut Vampire Nighthawk ?!
They are pure evilness and win games (especially with jitte) oO

[yougo]

i agree you dont want to cut vampire nighthawk i would recomand you to try it first, me too at first i was sceptical but nighthawk equip make you win the game is that easy so much deck cant awser him with solas and just give you the game its way too brockenb to be remove

ho and im happy to officialy declare wasteland as a stapler to the deck

i think my next step is to try a 4th vindicate main and some precise card againts control and aggro in sideboard instead of md

ex: elspeth... wich i think is very good but you cant run it while your running wasteland i would say againts control (lanstill, supreme blue) it seems like the bomb

i think keys list start to look exactly like the deck should look like maybe some little tweak here and there but i think thats about it

but i would say this: me as soon as sobm is release im switching a jitte for one of these

and one change i was thinking about, i was considering of cutting 1 nighthawk for i vindicate from keys wich i think start to look like a real primer to me

[Humphrey]

Im currently working on a more controlish version of picula, like i used to play years ago with exalted angel.

my current list is this:

// Lands
5 [4E] Swamp (2)
1 [MM] Plains (3)
4 [TE] Wasteland
2 [GP] Godless Shrine
4 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [A] Scrubland
2 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
3 [M11] Baneslayer Angel
4 [ZEN] Vampire Nighthawk
4 [ZEN] Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 [SOK] Hand of Cruelty

// Spells
4 [JGC] Vindicate
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [DDE] Phyrexian Arena
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
3 [IA] Dark Ritual
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (2)
2 [AP] Gerrard's Verdict

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [US] Duress
SB: 4 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [WL] Null Rod
SB: 3 [OD] Innocent Blood

I couldt test to much, but i beat Countertop, TES and Merfolk (after SB) with decent results. Baneslayer Angel is very nice :)
But i have some troubles with Wasteland against me, since I need BB or BBB on Turn3 along with W for STP

[4eak]

After dozens of evolutions, I've actually found a build I like. It works well for me, and perhaps you might like it as well. List first, explanation after:

// Mana Sources -- 24
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Flooded Strand
5 Swamp
4 Dark Ritual

// Draw Engine -- 12
4 Dark Confidant
4 Dark Tutelage
4 Sensei's Divining Top

// Battlefieldsex-- 14
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

// Disruption -- 12
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Duress
SB: 4 Faerie Macabre

As many notice while playing these sorts of decks, games with a Bob (which sticks around) differ greatly from those without Bob. One-sided howling mines win games in attrition formats like Legacy. I like to see the effect with consistency, so I went for the full 8. Tutelage's easy mana-coloring requirements are extremely nice in a 2-color, low-land count deck.

The deck revolves around generating card advantage; you should snow-ball into it. The win-conditions themselves offer good board control and life-gain for the draw engine. They are perhaps weak in that they aren't very large creatures, but that is acceptable given the card advantage.

It probably seems weird not to have a 1cc discard effect (and some would be tempted to replace Hymn with it). Hymn is card advantage, supports the LD-gameplan sometimes, and it hits everything, which is wonderful. Duress can be sided in when necessary.

Generally, I've foregone the combo match (as is usual). I think this archetype is generally weak against well-played combo though, and even 12 1cc discard spells just isn't enough.

Some may consider E-tutor with less Tutelage and more Bitterblossom/Oblivion Ring/SB options, but against decks playing blue, I've generally preferred just dropping bombs without E-tutors card disadvantage.




peace,
4eak

[Corax]

Heres my current list and i am wondering what other 4 creatures to use:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 (undecided)

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
5 Swamp
1 Karakas

For the undecided creature slot, at the moment i had Nantuko Shades in there, but im still playing around with other stuff, such as Stoneforge Mystics and maybe Jotun Grunts, also i am wondering if i should just go ahead and splash green for Tarmogoyfs because it seems like there is no reason not to other than not being able to dark ritual them in, but i'm used to that having played Eva Green. I don't think splashing green for Tarmogoyf and perhaps Pernicious Deed makes this into a different deck because it is still very disruption centric and you would just be using Tarmogoyf as a win condition.

I also thought about just putting 4 Sinkholes in that slot to make it 4 Wastelands, 4 Sinkholes, 4 Vindicates, but can this deck be fast enough to be that kind of a tempo based deck? i think i might have to take out Gatekeepers and put something more aggressive in.

[colo]

You want -1 Jitte, +1 Sword of Fire and Ice, +1 Sword of Light and Shadow, +3 Stoneforge Mystic in there.

@4eak: why Dark Tutelage instead of Phyrexian Arena? I didn't do any calculations, but i'd be surprised if the average CMC of the cards in your list were below 1. The majority of permanents you play are CMC 2, so that change would also make an opponent's Engineered Explosive potentially less hurtful.

[jrsthethird]

Tutelage combines with Top to allow free cards.

[Corax]

if you only use dark tutelage or dark confidant to get extra lands and take no damage then you aren't playing the deck to it's fullest all of the time. you should want to lose life to play more threats at least some of the time. I think having 8 cards in your deck for card advantage might be a bit much, i haven't play tested with your list but sometimes i barely have enough threats as it is.

[4eak]

@ colo

@4eak: why Dark Tutelage instead of Phyrexian Arena? I didn't do any calculations, but i'd be surprised if the average CMC of the cards in your list were below 1. The majority of permanents you play are CMC 2, so that change would also make an opponent's Engineered Explosive potentially less hurtful.

I'm not completely against Arena. I've tried them both enchantments. I have an active top in most games, and I take slightly less lifeloss from Dark Tutelage on average in my opinion. Avg CMC= 1.35. Arena's predictable lifecost can be very nice. Dark Rutelage has lower mana-color requirements, which comes up often enough in the first couple turns (which is when I want to drop the card most often). Feel free to change it up.


@ Corax

if you only use dark tutelage or dark confidant to get extra lands and take no damage then you aren't playing the deck to it's fullest all of the time. you should want to lose life to play more threats at least some of the time. I think having 8 cards in your deck for card advantage might be a bit much, i haven't play tested with your list but sometimes i barely have enough threats as it is.

As I said in my previous post, games with an active Bob and those without are markedly different. Drawing extra land (alongside spells) is perfectly acceptable when it snow-balls into more card advantage and the ability to play what you are drawing. You rarely draw "dead" mana sources (note that I play 20 land, 4 Rit). The appearance of a low-threat count is deceiving if you don't consider the sheer consistency with which the deck can draw 2 (or even 3) cards a turn. There are 14-creatures in total, which is quite acceptable for heavy control/CA variants of the deck.

Try the deck out, you may find it plays differently than you anticipated.



peace,
4eak

[Corax]

4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
3 Bayou
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
1 Karakas

This is the current version of my deck and i have been liking the green splash, you use Tarmogoyfs and ditch Dark Rituals for Pernicious deed giving you a better late game which is what this deck is designed for in the first place. Try it out.

[Shiku]

Hi All,

First post here ! New to legacy and going with this deck !

Two newb questions:

- where does the name Deadguy Ale comes from ??
- what do ppl think of Grim Discovery with wastelands and gatekeeper ???

Thx !

[Justin]

Rogue Deadguy Ale is the name of a pretty tasty craft beer from Oregon. Chris Pikula played a BW disruption deck at one of the very first Legacy Grand Prix a number of years back(finishing second) and named the deck: Deadguy Ale: A Homebrew. Since it was a "rogue" deck at that time, "Deadguy Ale" was meant to indicate that. I'm not sure if Pikula was the first Magic player to call a rogue deck "Deadguy Ale", but the name stuck on his Legacy version.

I'm not a huge fan of Grim Discovery, as it can be a dead card a lot of the time. I think there are better cards to fit in the deck. I do love Gatekeeper in this deck and think he is a must play.

[Shiku]

Thank you !!!!!

So another question: What to buy first ??

Wastlands, bobs or Jitte ???

My manabase uses godless shrines and verdant catacombs as well as tainted fields, so I think I can hold before buying duals.

Any thoughts ??