[Deck] Merfolk

[Tru3z3rox]

another thing: black splash gives us the best card to answer dredge/loam: Planar Void.

Leyline is better and we can protect it with counters.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Leyline is better and we can protect it with counters.

You can also protect Planar Void with counters. And Leyline costs if you don't play it from your hand.

On the other hand, I think Relic/Crypt are way better for this deck anyways, because you don't want to lean on your splash color too hard (if you're splashing). I suppose if you're advocating running a basic swamp you might be able to get away with it... But on the other hand, I'm not entirely sold on the basic swamp in the black splash just yet. This deck can be pretty -hungry in the games where it doesn't have an Aether Vial online.

[kiblast]

You can also protect Planar Void with counters. And Leyline costs if you don't play it from your hand.

On the other hand, I think Relic/Crypt are way better for this deck anyways, because you don't want to lean on your splash color too hard (if you're splashing). I suppose if you're advocating running a basic swamp you might be able to get away with it... But on the other hand, I'm not entirely sold on the basic swamp in the black splash just yet. This deck can be pretty -hungry in the games where it doesn't have an Aether Vial online.

sure. but keep in mind that dredge players expect artifacts, and planar void comes pretty unexpected. Also Planar is a continuous effect, while tormod's and relic effects are not. Leyline is not my cup of tea..4cc enchantment with double specific mana? and it's not Aluren? mmmh..i'll stick with planar.

6/7 fetchland+3 duals means black mana on first turn pretty much always.

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

Leyline is not my cup of tea..4cc enchantment with double specific mana? and it's not Moat? mmmh..i'll stick with planar.

Fixed.

And yeah, Planar Void is a strong card, I could see wanting to try it out. In certain circumstances (ie a lot of Dredge/Loam/graveyard-based-whatever in your meta). It sounds like you have a lot of Dredge, and I'd imagine that would be kind of a pain in the ass, so go for it.

In other news, I think it's kind of funny how people are somewhat acting like the black splash is the only real version of this deck anymore. I think Saito's list is good and all. But it doesn't prove so much imo that his is the single best version of the deck, as that it's a strong shell and it can be effectively tweaked for the metagame.

[kiblast]

Fixed.

And yeah, Planar Void is a strong card, I could see wanting to try it out. In certain circumstances (ie a lot of Dredge/Loam/graveyard-based-whatever in your meta). It sounds like you have a lot of Dredge, and I'd imagine that would be kind of a pain in the ass, so go for it.

In other news, I think it's kind of funny how people are somewhat acting like the black splash is the only real version of this deck anymore. I think Saito's list is good and all. But it doesn't prove so much imo that his is the single best version of the deck, as that it's a strong shell and it can be effectively tweaked for the metagame.

i have dredge/loam in my meta, so yeah the grave is a pain in the ass. Aggroloam more than dredge, though.
I'm playing merfolk since more than 2 years ago and frankly i'm bored with the mono U version, for all the obvious reasons, and black splash in sb pretty much resolves them. Also, playing fetchlands in a deck in wich the only draw engine is Standstill/ silvergill adept helps a lot to improve your draws in late game.

(and, Aluren>Moat. ^^)

[Fouzt]

So i've been playing merfolk for a while now, and am currently running saitos deck, only with Tundras instead of Underground seas.

This is mainly due to the fact that I own 4 tundras and no underground seas :/, but like the fetches fixing and versatility of a second color for sideboard.

So I come to the forums asking for advice on the 7 slots I have open for white sb cards.

Currently I am running:

4 STP: For basically anything running goyf, piledriver, grim lav@sshole or other nasty creatures such as llawan the merfolk destroyer
3 Kor Firewalker: For goblins mainly, and also incredibly effective against the occasional random burn deck. They also allow vial to stay on 2

I like the how the STP have been performing, but sometimes worry about the firewalkers being too color intensive. I also was thinking of playing around with Tivadar's Crusade, but also thinking it would be the same problem as the firewalkers.

Criticism both constructive and trolling is acceptable and thanks for the feedback :)

[PanderAlexander]

So I come to the forums asking for advice on the 7 slots I have open for white sb cards.

Currently I am running:

4 STP: For basically anything running goyf, piledriver, grim lav@sshole or other nasty creatures such as llawan the merfolk destroyer
3 Kor Firewalker: For goblins mainly, and also incredibly effective against the occasional random burn deck. They also allow vial to stay on 2

If you're going to be running white STP should be maindeck, at least 2-3 minimum. As for sideboard, absolutely Meddling Mage. You can consider 2 or so disenchants too to help against problem enchantments and artifacts.

[diffy]

I just placed fifth (out of 204) at this year's German Legacy Champs with a Merfolk list double splashing White for Maindeck Swords to Plowshares and Black for Sideboard Perish.
Top 8 of the event wasn't played out, my record after 9 rounds of swiss was 7-1-1.
Wins: UG Aggro Control, UWr Landstill, Dreamhalls, Mono Blue Merfolk, Gu Lands and Ugwr Countertop Control. The Draw was intentional against a friend playing Ugr Tempo Threshold. The loss was against Ugw New Horizons with Spellstutter Sprite (who made top8 too).

This was my list:

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
2 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

4 Silvergill Adept
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 AEther Vial
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Standstill

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 Perish
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Hydroblast

Report, some notes on how it came to the list and whether or not the double-splash worked out can be found here.

[TheyCallMeTim]

I just placed fifth (out of 204) at this year's German Legacy Champs with a Merfolk list double splashing White for Maindeck Swords to Plowshares

I've been splashing White for a while now and have a few questions. Firstly, is Perish the Zoo hoser we need it to be? I've been running SB Ghostly Prison / Propaganda. Secondly, would adding Path to Exile in addition to Swords to Plowshares be too much? Finally, has anyone tested Sejiri Merfolk?

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

I just placed fifth (out of 204) at this year's German Legacy Champs with a Merfolk list double splashing White for Maindeck Swords to Plowshares and Black for Sideboard Perish.

LIST.

I suppose part of it boils down to personal preference, but I really have a hard time swallowing the -4 Cursecatcher, +4 Stifle. Not that Stifle is not a good card, but Cursecatcher, is waay better than your appraisal, "whoever thinks 1/1s for one mana are Legacy-material should be keelhauled." A few points: The ridiculous number of tribal effects in this deck will ensure that your 'Catcher is not always gonna be swinging as a 1/1. Also, he works very well alongside Daze and Spell Pierce, leading to the effect that your opponent will always trying to evaluate whether or not you can counter his critical spells. Cursecatcher is one of the myriad reasons that this deck has a decent match-up versus most combo archetypes. And finally, the self-sacrifice ability also comes in handy versus Dredge.

Also, if you're going to cut Standstill down to a 2-of, why not just omit it? (And yes, I read your reasoning on this question in your report. I sorta disagree. I think there's an argument to be made for going down to 3, or running zero, but 1-2 just seems like the wrong number to me.)

On the other hand, I think overall your list is pretty cool. Humorously enough, I was just wondering yesterday what the deck would look like if it were to splash and so obviously there's some amount of synchronicity between how we both see the deck.

[Justin]

I suppose part of it boils down to personal preference, but I really have a hard time swallowing the -4 Cursecatcher, +4 Stifle. Not that Stifle is not a good card, but Cursecatcher, is waay better than your appraisal, "whoever thinks 1/1s for one mana are Legacy-material should be keelhauled." A few points: The ridiculous number of tribal effects in this deck will ensure that your 'Catcher is not always gonna be swinging as a 1/1. Also, he works very well alongside Daze and Spell Pierce, leading to the effect that your opponent will always trying to evaluate whether or not you can counter his critical spells. Cursecatcher is one of the myriad reasons that this deck has a decent match-up versus most combo archetypes. And finally, the self-sacrifice ability also comes in handy versus Dredge.

Also, if you're going to cut Standstill down to a 2-of, why not just omit it? (And yes, I read your reasoning on this question in your report. I sorta disagree. I think there's an argument to be made for going down to 3, or running zero, but 1-2 just seems like the wrong number to me.)

On the other hand, I think overall your list is pretty cool. Humorously enough, I was just wondering yesterday what the deck would look like if it were to splash and so obviously there's some amount of synchronicity between how we both see the deck.

While I agree with you that I'd rather have Cursecatcher over Stifle overall, Stifle is the card that you'd much rather have against Storm Combo. Cursecatcher can help you in that matchup, but Stifle hits their win conditions. Stifle will also be much better against decks that don't run a lot of instants and sorceries, such as Goblins. Another cool thing about maindeck Stile, is that you can use it for mana denial and play Merfolk as more of a tempo deck. I could see Stifle being a better choice in the right meta. My meta, however, has a bunch of blue decks, so Cursecatcher is invaluable.

[Humphrey]

What about running Ports, Stifle and Wasteland?

[DukeDemonKn1ght]

What about running Ports, Stifle and Wasteland?

Rishadan Port was kicked around as an idea for this deck back in the early history of the thread, IIRC, but I think by now we're way too mana hungry to even think about it, between Mutavault and Coralhelm Commander.

Goblins can run Port successfully because they have Lackey and Instigator in addition to their Aether Vials. We just have the Aether Vials, so we're gonna be hard-casting shit more often than not.

If you're running mono-blue and you want additional mana-denial though, you could always consider main-decking Back to Basics. It's definitely a meta call on that one. But it could be brutal in the right context.

[kiblast]

B2B is a strong card with a possible gamebreaking effect for sure, but its 3cmc makes it very undesiderable for a deck who plays at least 6 cmc3 drops and 12 cmc 2 drops. Could be SB material, and for some time i've used it, but in my opinion is not that useful.

[mchainmail]

While I agree with you that I'd rather have Cursecatcher over Stifle overall, Stifle is the card that you'd much rather have against Storm Combo.

Dude, have you played that matchup, ever?

Stifle's only function is stopping fetchlands and chrome moxes. That's it. If you really think that a combo player will ever be exposed to stifle on Tendrils, you are a fool.

They will have the duress post ad naus. Or chant, at the very least.

Cursecatcher is a clock (to some degree; damage adds up) and forces them to hit 6, 7 or 8 mana to cast ad naus.

[Phoenix Ignition]

Dude, have you played that matchup, ever?

Stifle's only function is stopping fetchlands and chrome moxes. That's it. If you really think that a combo player will ever be exposed to stifle on Tendrils, you are a fool.

They will have the duress post ad naus. Or chant, at the very least.

Cursecatcher is a clock (to some degree; damage adds up) and forces them to hit 6, 7 or 8 mana to cast ad naus.

Really? Stifle will never hit tendrils? I've played against storm plenty of times where all my mana denial spells and wastelands forces them to go off with 0 mana floating and at maybe around 10 from a few turns of swinging. These situations the AdN player doesn't draw the absolute nuts (initial mana source, successive mana sources to hit at least 4 mana + however much they need to tutor for the tendrils itself with an extra mana and one of their duress effects). In theory it sounds like Stifle shouldn't touch Tendrils, but in theory all storm players say that they can play around Daze and Spell Pierce and Cursecatcher very easily. In practice storm combo has to go off from bad situations and just hope to get lucky with what they draw. You have enough pressure to not let them draw 20 cards off of AdNauseum.

[Muradin]

So recently I've decided to build a second Legacy deck again after having sold all cards but my favourite deck. I searched for something that beats Merfolk and blue control lists while having a solid game against aggro and not auto-losing to combo. Another factor in my decission is that I wanted to run Kira, because she is quite good and our dog is called Kira as well. I came up with this list that has been phenomenal in testing for me so far:

Bloody Merfolk

4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
4 Mutavault
4 Wasteland

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner

4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt

Sideboard:
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Spell Pierce
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Submerge


My boarding plans so far in playtesting were like the following, however I am fairly unexpierienced with Merfolk so I am not sure whether this was any good:

Goblins:
-4 Daze
+4 BeB

Zoo:
-4 Daze
-4 Force
+4 BeB
+4 Submerge

Bant:
-4 Bolt
+4 Submerge

Combo:
-4 Bolt
+4 Spell Pierce

[kiblast]

Ur Merfolk. Interesting. But what MU gets improved by putting 4 bolts and 4 lavamancers maindeck?
Also, you say that '' I came up with this list that has been phenomenal in testing for me so far''. Could you post some gameplay experiences, something that can confirm the utility of the splash?
I think that lavamancers could be a nice addition, but frankly i'm missing why this list doesnt run fire/ice.
However, nice list. Please add further details...'cause i'm pretty interested in your results.

[kiblast]

Really? Stifle will never hit tendrils? I've played against storm plenty of times where all my mana denial spells and wastelands forces them to go off with 0 mana floating and at maybe around 10 from a few turns of swinging. These situations the AdN player doesn't draw the absolute nuts (initial mana source, successive mana sources to hit at least 4 mana + however much they need to tutor for the tendrils itself with an extra mana and one of their duress effects). In theory it sounds like Stifle shouldn't touch Tendrils, but in theory all storm players say that they can play around Daze and Spell Pierce and Cursecatcher very easily. In practice storm combo has to go off from bad situations and just hope to get lucky with what they draw. You have enough pressure to not let them draw 20 cards off of AdNauseum.

i've never heard of a TES/ANT players who doesnt protect their combo with at least 1 duress AND 1 orim's chant. So basically unless you dont have 2 spell pierce and 2 stifles in hand, stifle will never hit their storm. Also, they dont really need to draw 20 cards off of AdNauseam, they only need 10-12 and among them at least 1 Brain or 1 ponder....and to draw 10 cards they're going to take 8-10 dmg, not much.

[Justin]

i've never heard of a TES/ANT players who doesnt protect their combo with at least 1 duress AND 1 orim's chant. So basically unless you dont have 2 spell pierce and 2 stifles in hand, stifle will never hit their storm. Also, they dont really need to draw 20 cards off of AdNauseam, they only need 10-12 and among them at least 1 Brain or 1 ponder....and to draw 10 cards they're going to take 8-10 dmg, not much.

Sometimes the tendrils combo player won't have duress or chant and they need to go off immediately because they will lose on the opponent's next turn. Stifle is relevant there. Or as you say, you could have more than one Stifle in hand. There are other tricks that you can do to protect your Stifle in some blue decks. For example, you could hide it from a Duress with a Brainstorm and then draw it back that same turn with a Top or another Brainstorm. Yeah, you won't do that in Merfolk, but I'd still say it is better against them than Cursecatcher. Tendrils decks generate so much mana that "pay 1" counter effects are rarely helpful.