[DTB] Vial Goblins

[1maarten1]

The number of piledrivers that you run depends on the meta. Some time ago, when Zoo was a top deck, some people cut piledrivers because it's pretty weak in that matchup. Then, when Merfolk became the top deck, everybody was back to four piledrivers. In a Vengevival-dominated format, I would recommend four piledrivers because Vengevival doesn't play much removal you need to run goblins that get them to lethal damage quickly.

So what would you cut? A gempalm? Or a lightning bolt? Or something else? (looking at the list Anton posted a page back)

[ScatmanX]

I'm currently happy running 3 Bolt + 3 Gempalm + 1 Sharpshooter as my removal suit, so I'd cut the 4th Gempalm from that list...

[Melwis]

Hello all Goblin fans!

I would like to know if anyone has had success with Goblin Grappler? I know, sometimes he will merely be a 1/1 for R but the fact that he can help both Piledriver and Lackey connect is huge in my opinion. I'm sure he has been discussed here before so i'm very interested to hear your thoughts about this fellow :)

[antonbystedt]

Hello all Goblin fans!

I would like to know if anyone has had success with Goblin Grappler? I know, sometimes he will merely be a 1/1 for R but the fact that he can help both Piledriver and Lackey connect is huge in my opinion. I'm sure he has been discussed here before so i'm very interested to hear your thoughts about this fellow :)

I would rather play Mogg Fanatic or any random removal instead. It's just to weak.
A reason why it's bad:
Play Goblin Lackey t1
Play Goblin Grappler t2 (here it doesnt do anything at all, since it do not have haste)
r3, your opponent either kills your Goblin Lackey or have more than 1 creature in play.

So it wont do much at all IMO.

[sligh16]

Talking about Mogg fanatic, he is actually really good in this meta. It kills the Birds and Hierarchs of the survival decks, and also, kills mother of runes, a card that I think is problematic for Goblins.

[(nameless one)]

With all these talks about Prospectors, Sharpshooter and now Fanatics, it feels like we're shifting back to the old List.

[TheDarkshineKnight]

Soooooooo, I need some assistance in deciding what to take out and put into my Mono-Red Gobbos deck. Currently, I'm running the standard Mono-Red deck everyone else in this topic seems to be running, but it's no longer working out as everyone and their mother in my local meta has decided recently to go insane and mono-colored non-blue aggro decks. Obviously, that renders otherwise great cards like Wasteland and Rishadan Port obsolete. Since I'm not willing to swap decks or add another color, I'd greatly appreciate it if someone in this here topic could give some advice as to what should and shouldn't be in a Goblins deck in this sort of bizarre meta. I know I absolutely need to throw in a Sharpshooter and add a couple more Stingscourgers in, but beyond that and taking out the Wastes and Ports, I've really got no idea.

[jin]

Soooooooo, I need some assistance in deciding what to take out and put into my Mono-Red Gobbos deck. Currently, I'm running the standard Mono-Red deck everyone else in this topic seems to be running, but it's no longer working out as everyone and their mother in my local meta has decided recently to go insane and mono-colored non-blue aggro decks. Obviously, that renders otherwise great cards like Wasteland and Rishadan Port obsolete. Since I'm not willing to swap decks or add another color, I'd greatly appreciate it if someone in this here topic could give some advice as to what should and shouldn't be in a Goblins deck in this sort of bizarre meta. I know I absolutely need to throw in a Sharpshooter and add a couple more Stingscourgers in, but beyond that and taking out the Wastes and Ports, I've really got no idea.

I wouldn't take them out. They still produce mana and taking them out completely disrupts Goblin's strategy. Goblins isn't a pure aggro deck. Without the disruption provided by these cards, you might as well play a white weenie deck with a few draw engines: Death and Taxes maybe, but even they play wastelands. Against mono colour aggro decks, ports are even more important to slow down the opponent while you reap the advantages from Vial.

You could play more creature removal mainboard. That's really all you need. 4x Gempalm Incinerators is a common play combined with Mogg War Marshals to block. Stingers are card disadvantage and a big loss of tempo unless they cheat their massive creatures into play. If they just play it with mana and no extra cards, then you are losing tempo. A lot of people have found that in aggro heavy meta, Pyrokinesis is sick. You could consider it since Goblin's card advantage will make up for the disadvantages of Pyrokinesis. Sharpshooter is more optional in this case since Pyrokinesis is faster and doesn't have to wait for summoning sickness.

Without more information on what decks you are playing against, this is the only type of advice I can give. I hope it helps

[Red Army]

Soooooooo, I need some assistance in deciding what to take out and put into my Mono-Red Gobbos deck. Currently, I'm running the standard Mono-Red deck everyone else in this topic seems to be running, but it's no longer working out as everyone and their mother in my local meta has decided recently to go insane and mono-colored non-blue aggro decks. Obviously, that renders otherwise great cards like Wasteland and Rishadan Port obsolete. Since I'm not willing to swap decks or add another color, I'd greatly appreciate it if someone in this here topic could give some advice as to what should and shouldn't be in a Goblins deck in this sort of bizarre meta. I know I absolutely need to throw in a Sharpshooter and add a couple more Stingscourgers in, but beyond that and taking out the Wastes and Ports, I've really got no idea.

If you want to go Wasteless and Portless, I would suggest this list, as I've tested it extensively and consider it to be at least playable in a random meta.

MAIN
22x Mountain
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Aether Vial
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Warren Instigator
1x Mogg War Marshal
1x Stingscourger
4x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Goblin Matron
3x Goblin Cheiftain
4x Goblin Ringleader
2x Siege-Gang Commander

BOARD (up to you)
2x Goblin Tinkerer
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
3x Pyrokenisis
2x Relic
2x Macabre
3x Pithing Needle
2x Anarchy

I don't think Wastland and Port are bad at all, but there are so many advantages to not playing any non-basic lands. Wasteland immunity is one. Perhaps the greatest advantage in Goblin decks is how fewer colorless sources make it much easier to mulligan to a one drop without getting stuck with multiple grey lands. Also, it can play Warren Instigator aggressively, which is a very underrated card in the status quo of Goblin decks. I love it in most match-ups, and it's one of the most potent effects for racing Survival decks in particular. The consistency of Warren Instigator has allowed me to completely cut Warchiefs in favor of Chieftains, which synergize with WI rather than Warchief's somewhat disynergy (and since I can't get Waste'd, I don't need cost redution so much).

Also, I disagree that Stingscourger is tempo loss. Against aggro, Zoo in particular, Stingscourger buys valuable time since Goblins' land drops mean so much more than any other aggro deck. If Stingcourger bounces a creature and blocks another early on, it is a pure tempo gain, a better defensive play than Mogg War Marshal, IMO. Stingscourger also has a variety of applications against decks using single-creature strategies, so it would be wise to play at least one but never more than two (I've tried, it's a little too many).

Something to think about. I don't play in tourneys, but causally I've developed a reasonable understanding of the meta, for whatever that's worth.

[Vandalize]

Playing Mono-Red lists without mana denail is just dumb. Mana denial is an important part of a Goblins deck, it can win a lot of matches on it's own (early game port-lock is really annoying).

Wasteland immunity? Lol. They can only hit your Ports...
Less mulligans? That can be a little true, but you often start out with a Lackey or a Vial (vial is casted with a gray land). So it shouldn't be a major issue.

Without Wastelands and Ports, your goblins list are just going to fall against any Vengevine or Zoo you face.

Well, if you face a lot of mono-green elves, or something like this, don't hesitate to use gray lands. They're just too good.

[jin]

Also, I disagree that Stingscourger is tempo loss. Against aggro, Zoo in particular, Stingscourger buys valuable time since Goblins' land drops mean so much more than any other aggro deck. If Stingcourger bounces a creature and blocks another early on, it is a pure tempo gain, a better defensive play than Mogg War Marshal, IMO. Stingscourger also has a variety of applications against decks using single-creature strategies, so it would be wise to play at least one but never more than two (I've tried, it's a little too many).

If it isn't a tempo loss then why would you not want to play more? For what reason wouldn't you want to play such an awesome card? It's because stinger was only introduced to remove creatures larger than 3/3 against lackey on turn two where gempalm doens't work. With that said, when lackey connects you gain the tempo because you land a free creature that's too large to be cast on turn 2 and you made him cast his creature again. Without hitting with Goblin Lackey, you just boomeranged his creature which does not advance your board while you lose a card. They simply play it back out and you lost tempo (both in card advantage and mana if it were zoo).

Against Zoo it is not a tempo gain that's for sure. You are simply bying time by sacrificing goblins because you need time to build up a swarm. Tempo is about board development, mana input and card advantage. stinger stifles your board development and card advatnage (no pun intended) even though you might (or might not if it is zoo) gain a mana advantage.

But I mean, against most aggro decks, Vial Goblins can play aggressively, so there is no need for these stinger blocking tricks that you mentioned. You can just tank the hits and swing. He said his metagame is full of mono-coloured aggro decks. That means zoo is not a candidate. Overall, stinger is only used against decks that either have to sacrifice a lot to bring the creature into play (like Emrakul or Iona) or for removing creatures so lackey can connect.

Playing Mono-Red lists without mana denail is just dumb. Mana denial is an important part of a Goblins deck, it can win a lot of matches on it's own (early game port-lock is really annoying).

Wasteland immunity? Lol. They can only hit your Ports...
Less mulligans? That can be a little true, but you often start out with a Lackey or a Vial (vial is casted with a gray land). So it shouldn't be a major issue.

Without Wastelands and Ports, your goblins list are just going to fall against any Vengevine or Zoo you face.

Well, if you face a lot of mono-green elves, or something like this, don't hesitate to use gray lands. They're just too good.

I agree, early port-lock wins games. My friends got mad at me from playtesting because they were always one turn behind because of my Rishadan Ports. Then they got blue duals so they could FOW my Vial,.. then my Wastelands got more fun.

I also agree with that. Port is additional to the red mana, so it really dosen't affect goblin's development at all. It just affects goblins strategy. That's why I like 4... HAHA..

I don't know about it's effectiveness VS Zoo since their critters are all so cheap, but it is super effective against decks with big spells like jace2, Moat, even oblivion rings and KOTRs. It wouldn't do much to slow down Zoo that much since they are so blisteringly fast, but if the zoo player kept a slow hand maybe.

[Vandalize]

After several loss to Reanimator variants, I've decided to remove my Relics for real. LotV seems so much better. I also brought back my Red Elemental Blasts, which have been REALLY useful in several matchups (uh, 50% of legacy uses blue?)

This is my mono-red list sideboard 2.0:

4x Leyline of the Void
4x Pyrokinesis (add the fourth because it's just awsome)
3x Chalice of the Void
2x Red Elemental Blast
1x TukTuk Scrapper
1x Boartusk Liege

I found those REBs to be the best answer to Jace 2.0 and those pesky Brainstorms EOT.

Any toughts?

[raindrainxi]

Have you tried combining 2 LotVs and 2 Tormod's? I just don't think having to mull everytime I don't have LotV in my hand against dredge or reanimator or any other decks that rely on their GY a good idea.

Also, is a single answer to artifacts enough? Seems good in theory but haven't been able to pull it off in an actual match. Although nice call on the REB, although I use Pyroblast, since I don't have REB.

[CorpT]

Have you tried combining 2 LotVs and 2 Tormod's? I just don't think having to mull everytime I don't have LotV in my hand against dredge or reanimator or any other decks that rely on their GY a good idea.

Also, is a single answer to artifacts enough? Seems good in theory but haven't been able to pull it off in an actual match. Although nice call on the REB, although I use Pyroblast, since I don't have REB.

2 Leyelines makes no sense. If you're concerned about GY cards, either run more than 4 (4 Leyline + x Crypt, Faerie, etc...) or run something else. 2 Leyline + 2 Crypt is just terrible.

[Vandalize]

Sup guys!

The sideboard I posted before is shining bright! I've just played like 10~12 UGx Survival decks, and I won them all.

There're two effective ways to deal with SotF (which can be banned next december 20th [hopefully not]):

1st) Fightning SotF:
Nature's Claim
Krosan Grip
Whatever kills enchantments.

2nd) Hitting their mana source (BINGO!)
Pyrokinesis
Wastelands
Port-Locks

Yay! Pyrokinesis just got it's power back to be a four of in sideboards. And those gray lands are doing their job quite effectively (as always). Just be careful, because some Survival lists are now running red splashs (Firespout, Anger, Grim Lavamancers).

I strongly recommend people to put at least 10 creature removal against SotF... It has been working for me.

[GoboLord]

2nd) Hitting their mana source (BINGO!)
Pyrokinesis
Wastelands
Port-Locks

That's what I've being telling you for a full month now.
But thanks for confirmation :-D Good to know that it doesn't work out for me alone.

[Tom T]

Hey guys!

I've been testing the single Sharpshooter and Prospector for a few weeks now and I like it a lot. Though, often I'm surprise by a well timed Swords to Plowshares against my Sharpshooter (or prospector, with the combo in play).
My question is: what's the most effective use of the stack with Goblin Sharpshooter and when should you pass or maintain priority in this situation?

Thanks in advance,
Tom

[GoboLord]

Hey guys!

I've been testing the single Sharpshooter and Prospector for a few weeks now and I like it a lot. Though, often I'm surprise by a well timed Swords to Plowshares against my Sharpshooter (or prospector, with the combo in play).
My question is: what's the most effective use of the stack with Goblin Sharpshooter and when should you pass or maintain priority in this situation?

Thanks in advance,
Tom

With only a single Sharpshooter you can't use the stack "most effectively": You tap SS for damage. If you want to let the damage resolve you automatically pass priority.

Let's say you have SS and Prospector and you are expecting removal: The most effective way would be:
(1) tap SS for damage.
(2) pass priority
(3a) your opponent play StoP @ SS
(3b) your opponent does nothing
(4a) you sacrifice a goblin in response on StoP and untap SS, you tap and shoot in response on StoP as often as you wish
(4b) you let damage resolve and start again at (1)

[ScatmanX]

S2nd) Hitting their mana source (BINGO!)
Pyrokinesis
Wastelands
Port-Locks

I was trying monored here, bringing in only 4 Knesis against UGmadness (with 4 Waste 3 Port main).
The results have not been as much satisfactory as when I used to bring 3 Knesis + 3 Needle + 3 Nature's Claim.
The testing with JUST Pyroknesis have been good for you guys?

Also, what do you take out?
When I boarded in 9 cards, I took out Vials, MWM, and some 1 offs. That was also giving me some very good results.
Well... guess I'll just try to fit 3 Needles on the side again...

[guedax]

do you think Leyline of the Void is effective against survival?

I found extirpate nice against it but really non synergic with lotv

so how do you side against it?
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pyrokinésie?
no perish?
thanks