Saito busted! (GP: Florence) 11/27/2010

[Stifle]

As announced here: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...o10/welcome#16

Announcement - Player Disqualified Without Prize
by David Sutcliffe

We are never pleased to have to pass on bad news, so we are sad that we have to announce that Japan's Tomaharo Saitou has been disqualified with prize from Grand Prix Florence following his sixth round match.

Head Judge, Level-4 Nick Sephton, explained why the disqualification occurred:

"We disqualified this player for Stalling, after it was observed that his play speed seemed to change based on his observation of the clock. It was observed by a high-level judge that twice in the round he appeared to change his play speed based on considerations that were outside the game. Consulting among the senior judges we decided that, on the basis of what we had observed, we had no choice but to disqualify the player."

Nick continued with advice for players wanting to avoid falling foul of this rule themselves:

"Players should be able to play at a reasonable pace throughout a round. Judges recognise that a player's speed of play can change during a game - Magic is a complicated game and produces difficult situations for players - but it's important that players are still able to play at a speed that allows games to be completed. It's a valid play skill to be able to make difficult decisions quickly."

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Looks like Saito got caught pulling a... Saito.

Thoughts/opinions?

[LegacyDan]

Its about damn time. I have seen several of his matches and he pulls this crap all the time.

[Dia_Bot]

I can't say i'm surprised :P.

[bakofried]

Teehee. Does this make his Columbus win slightly less...valid?

[Julian23]

I'm feeling relieved. Justice at last.

[Tacosnape]

Good. People trying that shit hurts the game in the long run.

[B.C.]

Well, much like a 6 year-old with ADD, he tested the limits and pushed as far as he could until he got in trouble. Now he knows exactly what he can and cannot get away with. Play speed is still part of the game, and he is still a very talented player that utilizes every aspect of the game to his advantage.

[Muradin]

Amazin shit, I guess he deserves it.

[dschalter]

As soon as I saw the player DQed link at the GP site, my first thought was "is it Saito?". Sometimes, you just know someone has it coming. This could make the HoF induction ceremony pretty awkward if he is suspended (well, it makes it awkward anyway, but even more awkward if he is suspended at the same time).

[Julian23]

Play speed is still part of the game, and he is still a very talented player that utilizes every aspect of the game to his advantage.

Sounds to positive to my ears. Intentionally breaking the rules time and again should be refered to as what it is: cheating.

I don't consider cheating being part of the game.

[Tammit67]

Sounds to positive to my ears. Intentionally breaking the rules time and again should be refered to as what it is: cheating.

I don't consider cheating being part of the game.

+1. There is a difference between playing to your outs and not playing the game intentionally

[cdr]

Mr. Saito has been under serious scrutiny for several GPs. If he was going to continue his behavior (which doesn't only include Stalling), he was going to get busted.

[obituary 95]

wow this will make his hof ceramony really akward, do you think they will relinquished of his hof membership?

[B.C.]

Intentionally breaking the rules time and again should be refered to as what it is: cheating.

I don't consider cheating being part of the game.

Well, it is. Sometimes the "cheating" player gets busted for it, sometimes he doesn't. It's very much a gray area. A player could hypothetically slow his play down a little, but not to the point where he would ever get an infraction from a judge. Is this still stalling? Eh, I guess. But it's "acceptable" stalling. What Saito was doing was clearly deemed unacceptable. That doesn't mean he won't still do it in the future, just that he'll be much less obvious about it. Still part of the game.

[Julian23]

Well, it aint. Still not part of the game. See? I can be polemic too.

The actual question to consider to solve this is: What does part of the game mean? To me, everything that's not part of the Comprehensive Rules is not considered part of the game. To you, anything not part of the Comprehensive Rules and the Penalty Guidelines is not part of the game. No point in argueing who might be "right" on this.

Looking at how we use certain words or phrases let's us prevent a lot of arguements in the first place. Should have done that outright, partly my bad therefor.


I don't think his award ceremony will be too akward after all. He didn't get suspended, did he?

[dschalter]

Well, it aint. Still not part of the game. See? I can be polemic too.

The actual question to consider to solve this is: What does part of the game mean? To me, everything that's not part of the Comprehensive Rules is not considered part of the game. To you, anything not part of the Comprehensive Rules and the Penalty Guidelines is not part of the game. No point in argueing who might be "right" on this.

Looking at how we use certain words or phrases let's us prevent a lot of arguements in the first place. Should have done that outright, partly my bad therefor.


I don't think his award ceremony will be too akward after all. He didn't get suspended, did he?

He could be. Oli Ruel and Katsu Mori were initially DQed then suspended. The big questions are 1) how many times he has talked to the judges recently 2) how many warnings he has gotten. Mori and Ruel were repeat repeat repeat offenders who had done shady things repeatedly- Saito might or not be in that situation, though cdr's comments seem to indicate that he might be.

[markbris]

Mr. Saito has been under serious scrutiny for several GPs. If he was going to continue his behavior (which doesn't only include Stalling), he was going to get busted.

What other behaviors are you referring to?

[B.C.]

Well, it aint. Still not part of the game. See? I can be polemic too.

The actual question to consider to solve this is: What does part of the game mean? To me, everything that's not part of the Comprehensive Rules is not considered part of the game. To you, anything not part of the Comprehensive Rules and the Penalty Guidelines is not part of the game. No point in argueing who might be "right" on this.

Looking at how we use certain words or phrases let's us prevent a lot of arguements in the first place. Should have done that outright, partly my bad therefor.

Uh... sure, ok. I don't think we're actually arguing about anything except semantics.

I certainly don't condone Saito's tactics, but up to this point they had gone unpunished, at least not with anything this severe. If his "cheating" wasn't being punished, what reason would he have had to stop? In any case, I'm glad WotC made this ruling, and I hope it improves the game.

[Nihil Credo]

Do HoF inductees give a small speech or something similar during the ceremony? If so, a public apology could be the resolution to the awkwardness. Especially if he is suspended at the time, on which I put better than even chances given that he had become so notorious that the phrase "pulling a Saito" even existed.

[Rood]

If you keep stealing you'll eventually get caught. If you cheat in a trading card game you will eventually be broken in half. Saito will have to deny that he ever cheated to salvage what little pride he has left after getting owned so hard by the judges, lol.