Commander: EDH Precons with 51 new Eternal-only cards out next June

[rleader]

That was the point I was making. Maybe you read that one sentence as if I had a questionmark or something; we're on the same page here, I'm guessing.

I'm not sure WoTC totally understands it though. They probably saw that paper Slivers decks from TSP were selling for $30 and thought people would pay that for their foilies. OTOH, part of the reason the slivers deck was $30 was that SCG and co. had to buy boxes of 12 decks at a time and needed to give people a reason to look at the storm or white weenie decks as a good deal in an attempt to sell decks consistantly across the board.

[Ubiquitous Druid]

As far as I know, and correct me if I'm wrong here, WotC never sells out of online product, as long as it's in print. The same is not true of paper products.

That's exactly where this development is heading though. Wizards is finally finding a way to justify reprinting cards that would warp standard and extended by their presence. This brings eternal back into the domain of their profitability. Thus, if it makes them money, they can't just keep making more. And they can just keep reprinting these things, because they will be relevant only in the eternal market thus allowing them to change eternal without causing repurcussive changes to other competitive formats. It also would allow for other marketing schemes by which they could draw more players into eternal formats by creating a way to buy into it via packs.

This has the potential to be a huge boon for eternal players everywhere, but also the exact opposite as the whole concept of the Mythic Rare starts to bleed into the price-structure of a format with an already over-the-top price structure.

Does anyone else feel like Wizards is getting to the point where they can actually just print money?

[dahcmai]

I know a little bit about card prices.

Library of Alexandria has a possibility of coming off the list, but it's really, really small. It's still a massively powerful card, I don't care what anyone says. I have played with that thing in 5 color control during the old days. It's a little strong for legacy and vintage. I seriously doubt they would be that dumb. My Landstill would love the crap out of that. If anything the bitchmoaning about price alone would be tremendous. The thing is a one sided howling mine. Cmon. Vintage could handle that, but Legacy? Nah.


Anyway, this commander thing is meh. I like the idea they plan to support it, but I hate whoever this marketing idiot is. Branding something under the name of Commander? "Want to play some Commander?". Sounds like shit. "Want to play some EDH?". Yeah, it does have a ring. Should have left that one alone. I bet people will still call it EDH despite anything Wizards does. That name is just crap. I used to be a VP for an advertising agency. lol They must have put the guy who picks the foils for FNM in charge of that name. Sometimes cool, sometimes OMGWTF?

I kind of hope they don't accidentally make a Legacy staple for these though. The people are right about it shooting up in price due to availability. FTV sets ring a bell? Those didn't really even have that much good in them. EDH has personally raised the price on some cards quite a bit on accident due to popularity. Go buy a Sol Ring and see. Vintage is the only format that uses that and it's still expensive as hell due to it gaining notoriety in EDH despite the decline of Vintage. Timetwister alone has went back up and it's not because of some use coming back to Vintage. That thing should be dropping hard.

Rat's nest is a decent example. It did go nuts when released though it was due to standard people wanting them more than anything else. Standard controls prices the most. Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed is the prime poster child of what you should be fearing. That card was a $8 card for the longest time. When it became legal in eternal it didn't change price. When EDH became popular, it went over $100. It sucks in anything else. This is what we should fear.

Can you imagine if something along the lines of the Duals were in these? They can't technically make a functional reprint, but if they are only eternal legal, it does open up a gate for cards that shouldn't be in standard. I fully expect Sliver Queen as a reprint in a larger size. It only makes sense to do that one. I expect a few of the older legends to appear as "commanders". Why not? You want Bartel Runeaxe as a General, but he's old and hard to find. Easy fix. The size of the cards makes them bypass the reserve list for the commanders at least.

The cards more than likely will be the super staples that everyone should be able to get. Rhystic Study, Mind's eye, Oblivion Stone, Vedalken Orrery, Barter in Blood, and stuff like that. I really expect a ton of the crap rares that people love and use.


So this can go either way. Personally, I am happy about it (well, other than the name).

[sunshine]

My only concern is they want to change the name of the format. Seems they want not just to contribute, but to control this market?

At least you didn't just register bostonedh.com

[Bardo]

Wizards of the Coast and the DCI are not "taking over" the format! We will not be managing the rules or the banned list of the Commander format, instead leaving it in the capable hands of Sheldon Menery and his rules team. They deserve all the credit for this format's popularity and we don't want to mess with a good thing!

Cool announcement. Good to see that WotC is not going to control what is a fan-made and supported format.

On the change of the format name, I'm sad about that because "Elder Dragon Highlander" is all sorts of awesome words. Way Back in the Day, you had to use an elder dragon (Palladia Mors, etc.) but that hasn't been the case ever since the format has been vaguely popular. And it's awfully odd to have a deck with Phelddagrif as your general in your Elder Dragon Highlander Deck. So I can understand the name change for practical reasons.

Overall, thumbs up.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Why would new duals a nightmare? Unless they print better version of the duals (impossible) the new dual would just add some offer on the market.

I meant in the scenario that they were printed in a box set like this. I wouldn't be opposed to snow covered dual lands but I think if they printed them the best way to go would be to print for example...

Snow-Covered Taiga

Snow Land - Forest Mountain

This card counts as a Taiga.
Tap add R or G to your mana pool.

Or instead of counting as normal dual lands also have the line.
When in play this card counts as a Forest and a Mountain

So that they can't be fetched. I don't think making everyone buy 2 sets of dual lands that are equally good is a very hot idea.

Anyways that's not really on topic, just if they were to print something like that in a set like this we would be facing the "OMG impossible to find even at 3x retail," Scenario. I think that WoTC being open to printing cards that are not legal in T2 or Extended is progress though in the right direction.

[AngryTroll]

I'm excited about the new "Wedge" Generals. I really want to play GBW and/or UWR, but the only general choices are Doran, the Siege Tower and Teneb, the Harvester and Numot, the Devastator. Don't get me wrong, Teneb is awesome...but I like to have some choices! I have some pretty awesome UWr cards that want to see play in EDH, and now they might actually get a chance to make it into a list together.

[Valrina]

Jeah Snow coverd duals ftw ^^

I personaly love the idea of printing eternal cards that never hit standart, I hope they will do it more regulary now...and that the print runs are high enough, and that they play around the reprint rule that way...and love for eternal from wizards and.... damn this seems more unrealistic as longer as I talk...

but I still have hope !!

[JeroenC]

My only concern is they want to change the name of the format. Seems they want not just to contribute, but to control this market?

Here's hoping WotC DCI actually does something useful with the banlist. I enjoy EDH but not when the rules aren't set solidly in stone. WotC will make it a little more competitive, which would point it in a more organized direction.

The name change was mostly done due to legal reasons, and they have once again stated that they have no interest in taking control of the format away from Sheldon Menery, though they do intend to work more closely with him and the rest of the "Council" for EDH (or whatever the official naming is).

Also, about people hoping for eternal viable cards in this: I sure hope not. These will be singleton decks, so if they print (for a stupid example) a functional reprint of a dual land in one of them, that would force every eternal player to buy 4 of these decks, which is the same as saying "whomever manages to get his hands on four of these for a huge price, have fun in Legacy, the others, well deal with it". This would also be lame as hell for the actual casual players who would be forced to pay at least double if they ever wanted to get their hands on one of these. Methinks no actually eternal viable cards and mehopes so too.

what's the point with you? if they sell a Jace 2.0 vs Sorin duel deck at 29.99$, would you still complain? ok they would go sold out after 12 minutes, but then the price of Jace would fall at least of 20-25%....the same with Jitte. The more they print, lower the card cost.

Well you would be a very lucky man to find a store that's stupid enough to sell a DD with Jace 2.0 at 30 bucks, so I'd complain because no store around here is that dumb.

[Bardo]

Moved to Community.

[mchainmail]

The name change was mostly done due to legal reasons, and they have once again stated that they have no interest in taking control of the format away from Sheldon Menery, though they do intend to work more closely with him and the rest of the "Council" for EDH (or whatever the official naming is).

Also, about people hoping for eternal viable cards in this: I sure hope not. These will be singleton decks, so if they print (for a stupid example) a functional reprint of a dual land in one of them, that would force every eternal player to buy 4 of these decks, which is the same as saying "whomever manages to get his hands on four of these for a huge price, have fun in Legacy, the others, well deal with it". This would also be lame as hell for the actual casual players who would be forced to pay at least double if they ever wanted to get their hands on one of these. Methinks no actually eternal viable cards and mehopes so too.


Well you would be a very lucky man to find a store that's stupid enough to sell a DD with Jace 2.0 at 30 bucks, so I'd complain because no store around here is that dumb.

I don't know if *no* eternally viable cards is the right viewpoint. What if they printed a card like this:

Barbed Ring

Land

T: Add R.

Threshold - Sacrifice this: Deal 3 to target creature or player.



Would most of us really care?

[Tammit67]

The name change was mostly done due to legal reasons, and they have once again stated that they have no interest in taking control of the format away from Sheldon Menery, though they do intend to work more closely with him and the rest of the "Council" for EDH (or whatever the official naming is).

If they weren't looking to take some control over the format, there wouldn't be a legal need to change the name :/ Not that it sounds like a legal reason any way:

The format is now known as "Commander." The titles "Elder Dragon Highlander" and "EDH" are going away. It's not that we don't like those names necessarily (and I'm sure that many of you will keep using them), but we want to sync up our terminology. We've been calling it "Commander" on Magic Online for some time now, and we introduced the "command zone" as part of the game last year, so that term shouldn't be unfamiliar. Your "general" will now be known as your "commander."

Just seems like the change was unnecessary. Call me paranoid

[Gocho]

I don't know if *no* eternally viable cards is the right viewpoint. What if they printed a card like this:

Barbed Ring

Land

T: Add R.

Threshold - Sacrifice this: Deal 3 to target creature or player.



Would most of us really care?

I want 4, you can use them in almost any Red Deck with no drawbacks.
Yes, it's wasteable, but making damage at late game is always the Burn decks weakness

[freakish777]

Barbed Ring

Land

T: Add R.

Threshold - Sacrifice this: Deal 3 to target creature or player.

Seems pretty sick.

Not for burn, for Loam. It gives them a much better answer to things than Barbarian Ring (no dealing damage to you, no having to tap it, no having to tap anything else either, 3 damage instead of 2).

If it were also a Mountain and ETB tapped, I would definitely play it (Oh Hai Scalding Tarn, I need you to be a Lightning Bolt instead for me, can you do that please?).


I would be 1000% behind Snow-Covered/Functional Reprint Dual lands. Even if they weren't Forest Swamps and were just "Tap for Green or Black" lands.


As far as the whole concern of availability, the obvious problem with morgan_coke's analogy is that the person is handing something out for free. That doesn't happen in real life. Wizards puts a $30 MSRP on these. And if there's a ton of Legacy staples that these are the only way to get them (and there's no real alternatives to these, as in they aren't just a new Swords to Plowshares variant), then some people are not going to be able to get the cards to play their decks. Then after Wizards sets the MSRPs, SCG and every other seller goes "Nope, $150 a piece because these new cards are bonkers"), still sell out on pre-orders, and then only the few lucky people who managed to pre-order them have any (and few of them are interested in eBaying the cards they need). If Wizards prints an amount such that demand is met well, than cool. If they don't, well than they need to get their act together and bring in some better economists to gauge demand so their supply meets it.


For instance, what if a Tribal Goblin instant were printed at 1 Red mana that exiled target creature, and had some draw back (that creatures controller may deal damage to target creature or player equal to the exiled creatures casting cost?). That's not a card with any alternative to it (you either go get your copy out of the EDH box, or you can't play it).

Ultimately, the most competitive tournaments will be the one's where the card availability of any given card for any given player is 100%. That's why SCG started doing 10 card proxies for their P9 tournaments back when they were running Vintage events instead of 5ks.

[dahcmai]

I still want fetchable dual reprints of a sort. Snow duals would be great, but only as long as they had the land types. Otherwise, I'd just play the ones we have already and nothing would change.

That land is busted even more in 43 land. Hell yeahs having a B ring that is actually better.

Anyway, back to the point. I really only want one big thing that it seems they are actually going to do. Print some more generals in the Planar Chaos dragons colors. I am tired of needing to use Vorosh for every single deck I make with UBG. There's no other general for that slice of colors. I like Vorosh and he's awesome, but I am tired of him having to be the pick for my favorite color combination.

[Aggro_zombies]

Anyway, back to the point. I really only want one big thing that it seems they are actually going to do. Print some more generals in the Planar Chaos dragons colors. I am tired of needing to use Vorosh for every single deck I make with UBG. There's no other general for that slice of colors. I like Vorosh and he's awesome, but I am tired of him having to be the pick for my favorite color combination.

Amen to this. I'm hoping for something good here, as my dredge deck needs something more on-theme than him.

[Parax]

.

Take Fire and Lightning for example, they printed Chain Lightning, yet skipped other burn staples such as rift bolt, lava spike and magma jet. It seems like they feel the need to NOT make any competitive decks out of the box even though they clearly know what makes a deck competitive. I really doubt wizards' ability to choose cards we want for these decks.

Personally precons tend to be for the newer sect of customers, and i really do believe that if they make an "OMG THIS DECK IS BROKEN" out of the box, where is the room to improve the deck? As a deckbuilder (Yes it is part of the game, more for the newer players than the older, as we the older ones, net deck 9 times out of 10) you want to leave some room for improving the deck.

[mchainmail]

Seems pretty sick.

Not for burn, for Loam. It gives them a much better answer to things than Barbarian Ring (no dealing damage to you, no having to tap it, no having to tap anything else either, 3 damage instead of 2).

Is it playable in Burn? Yes.

Are players chomping at the bit to play burn? No!

Is it good in lands? Yeah, but that's what, 1% of the meta?


The point is there are cards that can support fringe strategies that can safely be printed without causing too much outcry.

[Dan Turner]

I wonder if something like this would work well with the new wedge comanders



Ozark Mountain Meadow

Legendary Land-Forest


~enters the Battlefield tapped

T: Add (r), (g) or (w)

It is not inherently broken can be fetched and not required as a 4 of in legacy or vintage

[Tammit67]

Is it playable in Burn? Yes.

Are players chomping at the bit to play burn? No!

Have you EVER been to MTG Salvation?