[DTB] Vial Goblins

[antonbystedt]

As much as I like them right now, I wouldn't say this.
They're awesome for todays meta, but may be not as good tomorrow...

I don't really think it's a meta call, both cards have nice interactions with the deck with or without eachother. To me, they are in my "core group", i would never remove my Siege-Gangs from MD, nor would i remove my Sharpshooter or Prospector.

But that is my oppinion.

[Nelis]

3 Mogg War Marshal [OUT]

//Sideboard
4 Pyrokinesis [IN]

I have no experience in playing against the deck with goblins but why exactly? Can you not kill 2 Vengevines by blocking and then deal a further 2 damage to each of the 2 Vengevines? They are also the best chumpblockers in the deck to give you some time. And they also combine very well with Gempalm. The more I think of it the more I think its not the right choice, I'm very interested in your reasoning.

[Tom T]

I have no experience in playing against the deck with goblins but why exactly? Can you not kill 2 Vengevines by blocking and then deal a further 2 damage to each of the 2 Vengevines? They are also the best chumpblockers in the deck to give you some time. And they also combine very well with Gempalm. The more I think of it the more I think its not the right choice, I'm very interested in your reasoning.

I think he was talking about UG Survival, which has Wonder to attack with flying VVines. Mogg War Marshal are awesome against GW Survival though.

[GoboLord]

I think he was talking about UG Survival, which has Wonder to attack with flying VVines. Mogg War Marshal are awesome against GW Survival though.

*
One GoboLord-star for paying attention ;-)

@ Nelis: It's just like Tom said: They almost always have Wonder.

[Vandalize]

They ALWAYS have Wonder. Flying Venvegines are really scary... But anyway, the most-wanted targets for Pyrokinesis and Lightning Bolts are not Vengevines.

Is Survival of the Fittest really getting banned? I think Vengevines should be banned, since SotF has been healthy in the format for a long period.

[Talanos]

I've been noticing a trend back towards mono-red with bolts and that WW/Perish are no longer as in vogue, even for decks running black splash.

For those of you having success with this strategy, how do you fare against goyfs and knights? Is the assumption that you're just going to chump them every turn while trying to swing back? There doesn't seem like alot that answers them if you remove the black, or at least, that's been my experience. I tried using stingers but they didn't really do alot in the long run. I agree with recent posts discussing how stinger is much more of an answer to Iona/Emrakul/Dreadnaught than it is to green fatties. Yes, you can use it to remove a blocker for lackey, but I find that decks with goyf/knight usually just bolt/path/cl your lackey instead of assuming they will be able to block it.

[Talanos]

Is Survival of the Fittest really getting banned? I think Vengevines should be banned, since SotF has been healthy in the format for a long period.

There's also Ooze combo, and in geneal SotF just seems to be the more degenerate card. Consider that in standard, where VV is legal but SotF is not, VV is not considered OP. I'm not sure that SotF would stay broken without VV, but its more certain that VV would not stay broken without SotF.

[Vandalize]

Ooze's combo is much weaker than Vengevines. Goblins can ramp them... Talking about standard makes no sense, since the formats are different.

And Vengevival isn't that broken... It's just a little overpowered now. I remember when Flash Hulk broke the format (that was a really stupid deck).

[GoboLord]

Ooze's combo is much weaker than Vengevines. Goblins can ramp them... Talking about standard makes no sense, since the formats are different.

And Vengevival isn't that broken... It's just a little overpowered now. I remember when Flash Hulk broke the format (that was a really stupid deck).

I find Ooze combo scarier that GW, although I don't know where to place UG Vengevines among those 2.

btw. Please don't bring Vengevine/Survival-banning-discussions to this thread, there is room for that elsewhere in this forum

[ScatmanX]

I don't really think it's a meta call, both cards have nice interactions with the deck with or without eachother. To me, they are in my "core group", i would never remove my Siege-Gangs from MD, nor would i remove my Sharpshooter or Prospector.

But that is my oppinion.

If SotF is get the hammer, and the meta shift back how it was, I guess I'd drop them, and switch back to Rb goblins, with Weirdings MD and Perish SB. I loved my Rb goblins. To bad it isn't good right now.
Even MWM, that I absolutely love right now, would go away, if there were not any Zoo in the format...
Everything is metagame. (ok.... almost...)

[TossUsToLions]

The thing about Sharpshooter and Prospector is that I would play them even even they weren't so synergistic. Sharpshooter absolutely wrecks some decks in today's meta, and interacts with many other cards in the deck. Sometimes we have to sacrifice some goblins when attacking to try to damage the opponent. Our creatures going to the graveyard trigger Sharpshooter, too. Also, as already stated, he works wonders with MWM and SGC.
Prospector on the other hand is great because he adds another playable one-drop to the deck, which has the ability to cheat mana-costs like our other one-drops (vial, lackey). I haven't used him against Jitte yet, but the ability to stop Jitte from totally destroying us (which happens frequently) is awesome

[dethangel666]

who are some of the really good goblin players beside jim davis?

[Nelis]

They ALWAYS have Wonder. Flying Venvegines are really scary... But anyway, the most-wanted targets for Pyrokinesis and Lightning Bolts are not Vengevines.

What are the most wanted targets? Or a better question is maybe what is the best tactic to fight it? I must find someone with UG Survival to test against.

[daPaule]

What are the most wanted targets? Or a better question is maybe what is the best tactic to fight it? I must find someone with UG Survival to test against.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5557-[DTB]-Vial-Goblins&p=504372&viewfull=1#post504372

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5557-[DTB]-Vial-Goblins&p=504383&viewfull=1#post504383

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5557-[DTB]-Vial-Goblins&p=504389&viewfull=1#post504389

You are welcome.

Right now I'm currently testing a modification of Gobbolords MD, still going Rb but just for perish in SB. In my meta there is still some bant running around therefore I think this is reasonable.

Modifications:
Goblins: -Piledriver // + Chieftain (I played Rb always with just 3 Pileys and I'm not really missing the 4th)
Manabase: 4 Waste, 2 Port, 4 Mire, 1 Foothills, 3 Badlands, 8 Mountain
SB: -1 Pyro, -Beartusk, -Tuktuk // +3 Perish

Testing on MWS gave me some better Rock and Bant matchups, but as I've woken up late AGAIN today.. no RL tourney for me :-(

greetings

[Mantis]

They ALWAYS have Wonder. Flying Venvegines are really scary... But anyway, the most-wanted targets for Pyrokinesis and Lightning Bolts are not Vengevines.

FoW is no good against Tendrills of Agony with 10 copies on the stack, I guess you side them out against ANT...

When they have Survival active with a ton of mana and get to a point where they have flying Vengevines, none of your cards matter, might as well side them all out. I don't necessarily disagree with taking out Mogg War Marshall against UG Madness/Survival, but I do disagree with the reasoning that Wonder is the reason why you should take them out.

Kyle: Cartman's side is right. For the wrong reasons.

The reason we play MWM is to try to drag out to the long game, where our card advantage kicks in. This works particulary well against Zoo for example. Against UG Madness however you don't have inevitiability, if you drag out they will just spit out an army of Vengevines and Rootwalla's on the table.

[ScatmanX]

The reason we play MWM is to try to drag out to the long game, where our card advantage kicks in. This works particulary well against Zoo for example. Against UG Madness however you don't have inevitiability, if you drag out they will just spit out an army of Vengevines and Rootwalla's on the table.

This is pretty much it.
Dragging the game here isn't as good as against Zoo, since they can simply draw SotF and win the game, even if it's turn 20.

[GoboLord]

FoW is no good against Tendrills of Agony with 10 copies on the stack, I guess you side them out against ANT...

When they have Survival active with a ton of mana and get to a point where they have flying Vengevines, none of your cards matter, might as well side them all out. I don't necessarily disagree with taking out Mogg War Marshall against UG Madness/Survival, but I do disagree with the reasoning that Wonder is the reason why you should take them out.

Kyle: Cartman's side is right. For the wrong reasons.

The reason we play MWM is to try to drag out to the long game, where our card advantage kicks in. This works particulary well against Zoo for example. Against UG Madness however you don't have inevitiability, if you drag out they will just spit out an army of Vengevines and Rootwalla's on the table.

Then let me defend my reasoning...

UG Vengevival has Wonder.
Wonder does not only play a role for Vengevines, but for all their creatures.
Most of those lists pack Jitte MD.
Flying Rootwalla's with Jitte equipped matter much.

We play MWM to chumpblock huge creatures and buy a few turns AND to stop their smaller creatures from attacking.
As noted above: their army of Rootwallas and Mongrels can easily be made flying.
Chumpblocking flying creatures with MWM oftentimes doesn't work.


btw. (not belonging to that Wonder/MWM-reasoing from before):
MWM is NOT only good to get into mid-/lategame. It also increases our Gempalm Incinerator's range.
UG Vengevival doesn't play huge creature, therefore GI oftentimes ranges far enough. Thus, another reason to board him out.

[flrn]

//Sideboard
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Boartusk Liege
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

What do you need the Boartusk Liege for?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

What do you need the Boartusk Liege for?

It's for Engineered Plague.

[GoboLord]

It's for Engineered Plague.

...and for the mirror.