[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Masamune]

Is it a problem Dark Dephts deck?? :(
Someone here have tested against it?

[ForlornEgoist]

The way I see it is that Dark Depths is kind of like the Painter-Grindstone combo where yeah, it can win the game out of nowhere in the most annoying way, but it's also something that you don't really want to build a deck around. It's more of an extra win-con that only requires 4 spots, and that the deck has other ways of winning without it.

The problem with building a deck focused on DD is that you need to rely on black or splash an extra color to be able to tutor up the 2 pieces needed for it. By the time you manage to get the pieces for it together an aggro player will of utterly murdered you or a control player will have sufficient counters to deny you the Hexmage. Sure you can run protection via Thoughtseize or creature hate, but ultimately if you focus your deck on 1 card and it gets shut off somehow, then you're up the creek without a paddle. Heck, they don't even have to stop the Hexmage. If they have a Wasteland on field, all they have to do is blow up the DD while Hexmage's ability is on the stack.

Overall, our deck does fine against decks using DD.

While 4 of the 8 Moon effects are subject to creature hate, if you stick a Blood Moon its pretty much GG since black has no means to remove it. Chalice @ 2 shuts off Hexmage, and most players tend to make the mistake of dropping their Hexmage on the field before having DD, so just side in creature hate to remove them. The most likely color you'll see splashed is Green for Goyf/KGrip/Living Wish, so overall DS shouldn't have too many problems with a DD deck.

Forlorn Egost

[Zork]

Another card to watch for in the B/G versions is Pernicious Deed. I usually also board in Pithing Needle against DD since it hits Hexmage or, if Hexmage is handled by Chalice/Moon, Deed. Some version MD it, and those tend to be worse match ups.

[lotriderm]

Against the goblin matchup, is it incorrect to side out Chalice when I'm on the play, game 2 or 3? My strategy was to side out Chalice and replace them with Pithing Needle because it works against Vial and Gempalm Incinerator. I'm typically bringing in:
+ 3x Pyrokinesis
+ 3x Pithing Needle
+ 2x Pyroclasm
+ 2x Umezawa's Jitte (1 in the main)

- 4x Chalice of the Void
- 4x Seething Song
- 1x Blood Moon
- either another Blood Moon or a flex slot I'm testing (Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs right now)

[GoboLord]

Hey guys,

first of all: I'm totally new to Dragon Stompy. I've never played it on a tourney before - so far my experience with this deck is limited to a very good deckprimer by Necro Yawgmoth and some playtesting on Magic Work Station.

I came to play this deck because our local meta seems very colorful to me and is heavily shattered by manadenial. I was following this strategy with my Goblin deck, but Dragon Stompy obviously is better in screwing my opponents.

Therefore my list is very focused on the screw-plan. I just want to hear your oppinion on that:

//Mana [30]
10 Mountain
8 Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors
4 SSG
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

//Screw [16]
8 Moon-Effects
4 Chalice
4 Trinisphere

//Win Condition [14]
4 Kargan Dragon Lord
3 Lord of Shatterskul Path
4 Flametounge Kavu
3 Koth of the Hammer

//Sideboard [15]
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Boil
3 Anarchy
3 Firespout
3 Spinal Villain

[Yuri8]

Has anybody tried Aether flash aganist goblins and merfolks(ichorid, elves...)? Seems like good way to deal with them, even if you play in 3 turn they could have only 2-3 cretures which shouldnt be problem...

[Masamune]

I'll try to describe my experience of yesterday. A little tornament with just 18 people.
Despite not having won the tournament, I really enjoyed playing with the DS.
My list:

Mainboard:
Creatures (20):
2 Arc-Slogger
2 Kazuul
2 Lord of Shatterskull Pass
4 Magus of the Moon
2 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Others (22):
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands (18):
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
10 Mountain

SB:

4 Kinesis
4 Bombs
2 Tormods
3 Pithing
2 Anarch


DS vs U/B/W Merfolk
1) My hand cames perfect. Ancient tomb, Mox, Song, Simian, Jitte, MoTM, Trini. I started playing Tomb, Mox, Song > Jitte + Magus. I took a chance on that move... I knew if I would did it my opp would not have any chance. Yeah, no FoW. Jitte killing all fishes and I did it.
2) -4 Blood Moon / -2 RPD / -2 Chalice / +4 Ratchet Bomb / +4 Kinesis. He started with Island and Vial. My hand was something like: Tomb / 2x SSG / Song / Slogger / Kinesis / Bomb. I play tomb+SSG > Song and Slogger. He dazed and I paid with another Guide. Turn 2 had the Bomb (which most of the time I got to use it :D). When I put in table a chalice 2, no way to lose. Yeah. :D

1x0

DS vs U/B Merfolk

1) Trinis turn 1. No counter. He plays island. Tunr 2 Lord S Pass. He saw it and tought WTF?! :S I didn't played in subsequent turns. He give up xD.
2) I boarded similar to previous game. This match was very lame because he was locked with my moon turn 2, Chalice 2 and I drewed land and more lands. A couple turns after came into play a Kazuul. And...surprise! My opp controlled two vials one with two and other with three counters. A fucking Gilded Drake taken my hornguy exchanging it. I sacrifice my Bomb with two counters (had 2 before chalice and vials...) to destroy a opp Jitte. I topdeck a Slogger. My opp puting fishes every turn with vial. I take my 20 top cards to assassinate my own hornguy and my opp with 8 life died! (Sigh)

2 x 0

DS vs U/G VengSurvival

1) He started with Noble. I just started with a single jitte. I didn't knew what deck my opp was playing so far... He put Survival in table. My Chalice that I drew screwed my up because it was too late. Next turn 4x Vengevines and Basking + Noble. 16 damage. I lose. :\
2) I didn't remember what I did actully. I just thinked: "Oh hell what I gonna do?". I didn't expected see Survival in this meta... was a surprise. I started with Chalice 1 turn 1 and a Chalice 2 turn 2. But isn't enough. He played a Vengevine alone. -4 damage every tunr. No way... Survival screw me a lot. Thnk you very much Wizards. Ban Survival help me to play with DS much more. I'll not see that kind of thing to early in future in my next meta hehehehe.

2 x 1

DS vs MonoBlack

1) Thoughtseize take my Chalice. Turn 1 mountain. Opp Confidant. T2 Simian paying it mana cost being a 2/2 creature. Opp dark ritual and played Abyssal Persecutor. I played Lord Of Shatterskull Pass and was here I made a huge mistake. My opp controlled two Confidants making himself die soon taking damage all upkeep. And me with -13 life and I attacked with my Lord with six+ counters. Stupid move I know... living and learning :(
2) Another mistake was board too much Bombs and take off my strong creatures. I thought that would be a good way to handle with odd list... exchanging my moon effects. My opp made similar moves playing Confidants, Bloodgasts and Persecutor. But a diabolic edict finish me when Pesecutor chushed me before ;(

2 x 2

DS vs ProBant

1) Moon effects didn't stop him too much turn 1 because he was playing with too many basics. However, delay the opp with it plus Chalice togheter still was a good one. By the way a War Monk cames making me crazy. All creatures wich everytime was died to plowshares or another stiff like countermagic, opp opened the necessary way to deal damage with WM. I lose :\
2) Opp top deck several turns after when Moon effects was affecting all nonbasics controlled by him. He drew a Krosan Grip destroying my Blood Moon and after Natural Order + Dryad Land. Progenitus kill me two times after. This bad match would be better if I have being boarded properly.

2 x 3

I was too tired and decided to go to the pool for a swim...
We were in a recreation center

Some subjects to share to everyone:
1) Ratchet bomb is very very nice. But be careful when we board it exchanging main cards forgetting all deck purpose.
2) Trinisphere is awesome aways. I wanna run 4 every time I can run it.
3) I would run 4 RPD instead 2, but I remember last meta and I never like draw it when I'm losing. I prefer run more horned guys to handle with goyf decks. Yep it's my way.
4) I thought Arc-Slogger was useless. No! It's not! Nice finisher, good remoal ability and is a 4/5 creature.
5) Regardless of the results (maybe 11th or something else), I wanna play with it a lot more. I loved DS :D
6) Finally we can wait a little longer. Survival decks will succumb ;]

~Masamune

[Masamune]

Has anybody tried Aether flash aganist goblins and merfolks(ichorid, elves...)? Seems like good way to deal with them, even if you play in 3 turn they could have only 2-3 cretures which shouldnt be problem...

IMO it can kill our own creatures like anmorph Riders and Magus of The Moon...
IMO Fallout is better... also Aether Flash later isn't good.


Gogolord: Make difference when you build your list based in meta.... and remeber: suvival decks is not a problem anymore :P

[GoboLord]

and remeber: suvival decks is not a problem anymore :P

Why that?

[NecroYawgmoth]

AEther Flash is already an old tech, that Taco tested in the past, afaik...
I also tested it, in the past, and didn't like it... also, It's not good against skilled Merfolk players.

@ Gobo-Lord: Thank you for the complement on the primer ;) Don't play more than 2 Kargans... the RR is more problematic than you may think, and you want to do COTV2 sometimes... You can play 2 Slogger, or Mauler, or maybe Jitte [still ccc2 here]

@ Masamune: You got secret informations on a Survival-banning??? =P

[ScatmanX]

//Sideboard [15]
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Boil
3 Anarchy
3 Firespout
3 Spinal Villain

Isn't this a little to anti-blue heavy?

[NecroYawgmoth]

Isn't this a little to anti-blue heavy?

4 Boil
4 Boiling Seas
4 Spinal Villain
3 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

EAT THAT, MERFOLK!

But yes, imo that's also a little bit too much anti-U, but he wants to use the Boils as an other "screw-engine" afaik

[GoboLord]

@ Necro: Yeah, your words on the last tourney made me afraid of Merfolk :-D Maybe that's a bit too much.
btw. What are possible cards to board out?

@ Masamune: Only Scatman has the official right to call me GogoLord :-D

[NecroYawgmoth]

Normally the worst screw-piece =P, but remember that Folks board Blasts, while you usually board Chalice out...

btw, where are the 4 P. Needles in your board?

[GoboLord]

WHy Needles?

[NecroYawgmoth]

Okay, for the 500th time?

Run Four Pithing Needle.

Seriously. I would run about nine in board if it were legal to do so. Needle wins you so many matches and it's still good against mono-anything control. You have absolutely no way in this deck to deal with artifacts, enchantments, and certain other activated abilities that just wreck you. Needle wins.

=P


Needle is good against Planeswalkers, Survivals, Equipments, CoP:R and all kind of stuff that wrecks us like hell [I am looking at you Pernicious Deed], or is just annoying... also, it's nearly never a dead card and will always find worthy targets. Also, we are red, that means: it's our only out against Enchantments [besides newcomer Ratchet Bomb].

[GoboLord]

Well... I won't question something written in this size :-D

I guess you guys know what you are talking about. I'll run 4 in my SB

After some advice/playtesting/configuration my list looks like this:

//Mana [30]
10 Mountain
8 Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors
4 SSG
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

//Screw [16]
8 Moon-Effects
4 Chalice
4 Trinisphere

//Win Condition [14]
2 Kargan Dragon Lord
4 Lord of Shatterskull Path
3 Flametounge Kavu
3 Koth of the Hammer
2 Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs

//Sideboard [15]
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Anarchy
4 Firespout
4 Pithing Needle

[Zork]

AEther Flash is already an old tech, that Taco tested in the past, afaik...
I also tested it, in the past, and didn't like it... also, It's not good against skilled Merfolk players.

@ Gobo-Lord: Thank you for the complement on the primer ;) Don't play more than 2 Kargans... the RR is more problematic than you may think, and you want to do COTV2 sometimes... You can play 2 Slogger, or Mauler, or maybe Jitte [still ccc2 here]

@ Masamune: You got secret informations on a Survival-banning??? =P

Actaully, I took Aether Flash to one of the Rochester, NY tourneys as anti-goblin/Ichorid hate two years ago. It was fantastic at stalling, but it killed too many of your own guys to allow to continue to be an aggro deck. With a modified creature base it would, however, be fantastic.

[Ozymandias]

No rakdos pit dragon wryyyyyyy.

Also, I went 4-2 with Dragon Stompy yesterday at my local event, beating ANT, Dark Horizons, Counterbalance, and Burn, and losing to ANT and Vial Knights. Deck performed alright, probably misplayed my way out of the tourney.

[Tivon]

Pithing needle is a card that I avoided running for a long time. However, due to the increased use of cards like JTMS and survival in the meta, it has become increasingly powerful as an option, especially as it also hits a lot of other cards that are in problem matchups for us (deed, vial, etc)

I also am of an opinion that not running the hellbent creatures is a huge mistake. RPD allows you to race just about anything as long as you get a chance to swing with an empty hand, and gathan raiders helps to enable that. For me these are usually the two most consistent beaters, and I rarely have a problem being able to play them.

I tested FTK for quite a while, as I really wanted it to work so I could hit mana dorks or problem creatures, but I found myself too often forced to hold it back due to my opponent not having a creature or some other such situation. At best I find it to be a sideboard card, and the situations where you can't get it out of your hand because there is nothing you can do with it (other than have it kill itself) as opposed to not being able to cast it just feels maddening and caused me to not like it in this deck. The only condition that should determine if I can cast a creature or not is "do I have enough mana," not "am I going to have to kill one of my own creatures to get this thing out of my hand." Could just be personal preference, but I feel that especially with the mana acceleration that you have between Koth and song, RPD will serve you better here. It's a faster clock, and has evasion if you need it.

ON the firespouts, I personally would not run them. They hit many of your creatures, and at sorcery speed slow you down tempo wise. Pyrokinesis has been outstanding for me for over a year. It's free, only costing you a red card, and is instant speed. Sure, it usually isn't going to kill as much, but in the matchups where you usually want it, in combination with needles on relevent cards, its game stealing.

My proposed changes are:
-3 FTK
-1 something (probably a trini or a moon)

+4 Rakdos Pit Dragon

SB
-4 firespout
+4 Pyrokinesis

I know you're playing something a list that is a bit more defensive oriented, but RPD is going to be a stronger play than FTK 95% of the time in my experience.