[DTB] Vial Goblins

[GoboLord]

I'm glad people are finally realizing Goblin Chieftain is the weak link in the deck, since I've been calling this since very shortly after the card was printed. Maybe people will realize how nuts Instigator is next.

There's not really a -right- card to run if you want to beat TES. It's more related to the number of hate spots you pack for it. If you really want to beat TES, you're going to need 6-7 spots dedicated to it in board (Mindbreak Trap and Chalice are my recommendations), or pack a few cards with minimal splash hate application, like a combination of Mindbreak Trap and Shattering Spree/Meltdown, the former to keep them from being too out of control too fast, and the latter to punish them for trying to pull off an Ad Nauseum with only two spells by dropping artifacts out.

The theory of running 3-4 anti-combo spots is that basically you're hoping to get lucky. Either you get your hate and it gets you there games 2 and 3, or you win the die roll, drop a Lackey, they maybe mulled to 6 and need a turn or two to set up, and you've got Wastelands galore.

Or you could always just completely ignore TES, take your bad matchups like a champ, and spend those 6-7 spots on loading up to deal with other problems.

Goblin Chieftain isn't a bad card after all. And as far as I know we just came to the conclusion that he is the worst card in Tom T's list (which is very similar to mine). e.g. in a meta that's very controlish I'd pack more of those instead of Mogg War Marshal.

I agree with you that 6-7 slots should be dedicated to combo if you want to reliably beat them.
But I find 4 SB slots perfectly alright when you are running a package of Wasteland AND Ports (both of which are very effective against combo). In my meta (western Germany) they really like combo, thus DDANT, TES and ANT are frequently played. Nevertheless I managed to lose only 3 matches to combo in the whole year while I never had more than my precious 4 Chalice in board to hate them. Seriously: Wasteland and Ports are very effective against them.

[Tom T]

I'm glad people are finally realizing Goblin Chieftain is the weak link in the deck, since I've been calling this since very shortly after the card was printed. Maybe people will realize how nuts Instigator is next.

In the Netherlands goblin-decks are quite common and it seems a lot of people play 4 Warren Instigator. This card is most likely already discussed, but I wonder what the conclusion of that discussion was. Sure, I have an oppinion but I think you guys have already found out the conclusion of that topic.

I'm glad Goblins has only a few slots to doubt. I think this gives a more relaxed feeling when playing the deck. For instance, each time I play Landstill I wonder how the deck could be better and if I'm running the optimal list.
This lack of doubt gives you more confidence in the deck and I think it contributes to your results.

[ricowaits]

my Oh Ring for Emrakul

Ring doesn't work as Emrakul has protection from coloured spells which includes aura's. If your looking to deal with that your going to be looking at Tariff ( 1W) or any of the "Edicts" (1B)

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Ring doesn't work as Emrakul has protection from coloured spells which includes aura's. If your looking to deal with that your going to be looking at Tariff ( 1W) or any of the "Edicts" (1B)

This isn't correct.

Oblivion Ring doesn't target Emrakul as a spell. Its come into play ability triggers when it enters the battlefield. The 'ability' targets Emrakul.

The same is true for Journey to Nowhere.

[ricowaits]

This isn't correct.

Oblivion Ring doesn't target Emrakul as a spell. Its come into play ability triggers when it enters the battlefield. The 'ability' targets Emrakul.

The same is true for Journey to Nowhere.

Good to know. It appears I was misinformed a couple of months ago that Journey/Ring would not be able to target Emrakul.

[ScatmanX]

Good to know. It appears I was misinformed a couple of months ago that Journey/Ring would not be able to target Emrakul.

The most important thing for us is that Stingscourger can target him.

[antonbystedt]

I do not agree with Goblins Chieftain being the weakest goblin, i really like him and he's a really nice tutor target that have won me games.

And i've run 4off Warren Instigator in my previous decklist, without ports and with 4 Bolts, a more aggressive list with other words.
The card itself is reaaaaally good, but it is not good with 8 colorless lands imo.

[Sims]

I do not agree with Goblins Chieftain being the weakest goblin, i really like him and he's a really nice tutor target that have won me games.

And i've run 4off Warren Instigator in my previous decklist, without ports and with 4 Bolts, a more aggressive list with other words.
The card itself is reaaaaally good, but it is not good with 8 colorless lands imo.

I ran 3 in a list that only ran 6 colorless lands (4 waste 2 port) and it was awesome. I also dig chieftain, I actually was running more chieftains than most people here bouncing between 3 and 4. But he's a card i feel you need more than 1 of to benefit from... As a tutor target for countering a single plague he's meh.. With multiples the lord bonus helps, the haste is never unwelcome, and with instigators he becomes nuts. It's fun running a 2/2 or 3/3 instigator into blockers... the look on your opponents face is priceless when he can't decide if he wants to lose his goyf, or let you have 2 free goblins.

[Amon Amarth]

I've had mixed results with Chieftain and Instigator. I may test them in the future again but I'm happy with the build I'm running and don't really feel like I need a lord. I don't think I can run Instigator with 8 Wastes/Ports; it has lead to some awkward hands.

[Tacosnape]

I think this is why people misinterpret Warren Instigator. It's not always an aggressive card like Goblin Lackey. It's actually a defensive card in a ton of matchups. It will keep your faster opponents from swinging as quickly, while you work towards your lategame edge. And if they don't slow down, you get a ton of chances to punish them. It can be bait for removal that would hit your Chief, or it can benefit from Lackey being bait for it. It's a fantastically dangerous Aether Vial trick, especially when you also run Stingscourger. And connecting with one if you have a Matron or Ringleader in your hand is absolutely crushing.

And yes, I've said from the beginning you can't run him with Port.

[Zörg]

Why cant you play him with 4 ports?
We play 4 warchiefs and they too need 2 mountains to play?
And what is your opinion on running both Instigators and sharpshooter+prospector, can it be done and should it be done?

Here is my current list, and i am thinking about making it more aggressive, but i am still thinking about how. Any help and ideas?

CREATURES (31)
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Mogg War Marshal
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Sharpshooter

INSTANTS (3)
3 Lightning Bolt

ARTIFACTS (4)
4 Aether Vial

LANDS (22)
14 Mountain
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Boartusk Liege
2 Blood Moon
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Stingscourger
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Pithing Needle
1 Vexing Shusher

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Other than a few questionable sideboard cards, which are probably meta-related, the deck looks pretty standard. Not really much to change.

[Zörg]

Yea, i pretty much copy pasted and changed a few slots. But if i want to squeeze in a few instigators, what do i take out?

Instigators would change the theme from defensive to agressive i'd say.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

I'd probably go with:

-3 Mogg War Marshal
-1 Skirk Prospector
-1 Goblin Chieftain

+4 Warren Instigator
+1 Siege-Gang Commander

If you run Warren Instigator, always run the third Siege-Gang Commander.

[bakofried]

I would say Warchief and Instigator take different places on the curve, and that's why you don't want as many (if any) copies of Port in a deck with him.

Taco, could we see your current list? I'd love to take it for a spin. I'm assuming it's Rb?

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

It's probably close to this. Tacosnape's list hasn't change much, I think.

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
4 Auntie's Hovel
6 Mountain
4 Wasteland

4 Aether Vial
4 Warren Weirding

4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Warren Instigator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Stingscourger

[GoboLord]

Hey fellow Warchiefs,

I had a tourney today; tested Warren Instigator; ended up 3rd with 5-1-0

I don't want to give a report, but focus on the performance on Warren Instigator. I took him with me as a 4-off because I wanted to have an oppinion on him that is based on experience. Right now, I'm very tired so I'll write about it tomorow. Here are my results for now:

R1 - 4c Countertop: 2-1
R2 - Raffinity: 2-0
R3 - High Tide Combo (I guess it's called 'Solidarity' or 'Springtide', don't know the difference, maybe s.o. can explain?): 2-0
R4 - Zoo: 2-0
R5 - Dredge: 1-2
R6 - Ugbw Threshold: 2-0

[Vandalize]

Sup, Horde...

I'm still playing the same Mono-Red instigatorless, chieftainless list (with two Skirk Prospector). Warren Instigator adds a lot of speed, but I love my MWM, and I don't think I can leave them behind :(

Chalice of the Void has been proven to be the best card in sideboard.

Chalice @1 is really nice against Zoo (uh, ok, they can be destroyed by a Qasali Pridemage, but Zoo usually runs 2 or 3) because it can just counter every removal they have: Grim Lavamancer, Lighting Bolt, Chain Lightning, Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, and trouble creatures like Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape, Loam Lion and Noble Hierarch.

My new sideboarding against Zoo looks like this:

-4 AEther Vial
-1 Lightning Bolt
-1 Skirk Prospector
-1 Goblin Piledriver
+4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Pyrokinesis

And my sideboard still looks the same:

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Anarchy
2 Shattering Spree
1 TukTuk Scrapper

Like GoboLord, I've been having a little trouble with Dredge (If I don't find an early Tormod's, I'm usually dead by turn 3). Perhaps, I should drop one Skirk Prospector and add a Stingscourger to bounce/block that weirdo 12/12 Golgari Grave-Troll.

You guys, who're testing Warren Instigator to its maximum power, is Zoo still hard to beat? The lack of MWM seems to weaken the deck against this matchup.

[ScatmanX]

Back from a tournament too. Report tomorrow I guess...

0-2 against Lands
2-0 against ProBant
2-0 against Zoo
2-0 against UbFolk
2-1 against UFolk
0-2 against Junk
2-0 against Elves

total 4-2 (10-5).
Completly loved the deck and sibedoard.
Tested Instigators again too, and they were awesome.
There's no need for MWM too beat Zoo, so no need for him in the MD imo.

[Ahumana]

Instigator is too slow in my humble opinion

Chieftain is mediocre... i think his best use is to combat engineered plague... which goblin decks frequently encounter

as a result... i run 2 chieftain

also... i am not too big of a fan of fanatic... he is alright in an opening but is only really against roughly 25% of decks in legacy... not worth it

my build:

1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Gelmpalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Stingscourger
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector

1 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Gelmpalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Stingscourger
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector

4 Aether Vial

1 Warren Weirding

2 Arid Mesa
4 Blood-Stained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Mountain
2 Taiga
3 Badlands
3 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port

Sidedeck
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Krosan Grip
2 Tin Street Hooligan

i am very happy with this build apart from the fact that it does not contain a sharpshooter... any advice on what to cut to add one would be appreciated