So where is the SB? And why two random SDT in the main? You only have 20 lands in a deck that is kinda mana intensive and requires equip costs. Its seems like those two slots will be best as lands. Example: Gobbos, Merfolk, and D+T all run as few as 21 lands, but they all have Aether Vial to cheat dudes into play. And they don't even have two different colors in their decks (outside of splashes for the SB).Originally Posted by Rebirth
Well, SDT is an MVP when it comes to fixing draws, particularly with Bob (and fetches), since as you'll look his build is running 10 3cc, so being able to fix draws is invaluable, particularly in MU's where you really don't want to see Hymns/Inquisition (TS/Dur). Although if you're going to be running top I'd push it up to 3. My build runs 4, however I also run Tombstalkers so I need to gurantee a Top.
As for lands, the deck can function perfectly well on just 20 even with equips because Stoneforge let's us cheat them in forcheaper. Also, the reason the decks you mentioned run more than 20 is that they run 8 lands that don't produce colored mana (Waste/Rish/Muta) whereas we only run 4 Waste and are able to dig through our decks for land via Bob. Many builds also opt for Urborg which turns our fetches into mana while doing nothing for the opponent (since, let's face it, no-one who wants to make a Top 8 plays black :P).
Forlorn Egoist
Even then, this dude should really either be running 3-4 SDT or none at all. I have run this deck in the past,and I must say you either use Top or you don't. Bob gets you enough draws, and the rest of the deck should be focused on punching in damage while keeping your opponet off balance. Hell, those two spots can easily become Jotun Grunts to help cycle your hate and attack their graveyard while hitting their face.
I am also currious as to this dudes reason for running Fetid Heath over Wasteland. Does he not encounter other Wastes? Or Mazes? Vindicates can attack opposing lands that slow you down, but Wasteland allows you to use your Vindicates on more important threats. At the very least least get rid of the heaths for +1 Urborg ToY, +1 Volrath's Stronghold, +2 Fetches to help solve some of this decks problems.
And I am very familiar with Stoneforge Mystic, my main deck is Death and Taxes afterall. Mystic is a great tutor, but even with her ability, it still costs 6 mana to play her/cheat into play/equip an attacker. Using "extra" mana on a top is hard to come by when you are dumping mana into the equipment package. My honest suggestion is to go with the SDT package OR the Mystic package, not both.
Please have a look at recent Goblin decks at deckcheck.org and don't brandish your ignorance like that.
I did and i see many variations. I see mono red, i see splashes with green and black. I saw some lists who used 2x Warren Weirding in their entire 75, and they ended up way LOWER than the other variations of the goblin deck, also not all black splashes had Warren Weirding!! Warren Weirding won't be encountered that much and if it happens, you get to choose what to sacrafise, not them, honestly smother would have been more frightning. I am not brandishing my ignorance, it is simply that you are delusional if you think Phyrexian Crusader, a card that rapes 3 decks, will be overshadowed by Warren Weirding, a card that is played as 2-3 off in one of the many variations of one of those 3 decks! Maybe it is time to consider playing another game? apparantly you don't understand it that well and brand people who disagree with you as Ignorant, the irony.
I don't really mind if you disagree with me, after 1 month everybody will realize the power of Phyrexian Crusader, Mirran Crusader is garbage, get bolted/path/plowshares 24/7.
@LegacyDan and ForlornEgoist:
I have been switching between 2-3 stoneforge mystics and 3-2 sensei's divining top, sensei's divining top is great and all, but multiple copies are dead cards imo, you can get that fixed with fetches though and 3 tops is more consistant. So it comes down to what you prefer and i am not sure what i prefer yet... lol.
About Wasteland; I am running 20 lands and i need them all to produce colored mana. Merfolk that runs 20 lands including 4 wasteland is a mono coloured deck and has vial, deadguy ale doesn't.
About "not enough land"; I play Deadguy Ale because of it's disruption, when i am going to equip creatures and all, the game is not in a "Race mode". I like deadguy because it has awesome disruption for the start of the game, Inquisition, Hymn, Sculler. So start, disrupt, destroy creatures or permenants with path, gatekeeper and vindicate. A dark confidant and you will win with the raw CA or a stoneforge mystic and fetch an equipment and win with that. I don't know how you guys decide on taking mulligans or not, but if i don't have early game disruption, i am more tempted to take a mulligan.
Dude, those kind of comments are not good for discussions on open threads. I have noticed that several of your previous posts are rude, calm down.
Updated my post with a reply to you and the other guy about your questions.
Just because something dies to removal doesn't mean it shouldn't be tested. Hell, if that was the case, NONE of your current critters should be in the deck. Doublestrike and Pro: G/B is nothing t sneeze at. He gets around Goyf and a lot of the little black dudes in the format (not including the random flyers). Now, I currently run another deck with the Mystic package and 2x Kor Duelists and I must say, doublestrike (no matter the critter) is AMAZING on an equiped creature.
The main thing I do not like about Phyrexian Crusader is the Infect. It might as well be Wither, that would be better for the deck. Putting a SoFaI on him is nice, but sadly the sword deals the extra damage not the Crusader. I would much rather get one a successful MC w/ SoFaI in (12 damage, 2 cards) than a PC (4 poison, 2 damage, 1 card).
I will keep my Nighthawk as my MD 3cmc beater/finisher. Phyrexian Crusader is going in my sideboard for burn, goblins and zoo. It is true that the infect on it makes it worse, however with wither instead of infect it would be the most broken black 3cmc creature ever printed (imagine nighthawk having 3 power instead of 2 that would be overpowered, both this nighthawk and phyrexian crusader are strong, but not overpowerd, sadly black doesn't get the love blue and green get lol). Mirran Crusader and Vampire Nighthawk, landing an equipment on them and pwning is awesome and all, but vs burn, zoo and goblins they can easily respond to your equipment with a removal, especially ZOO. Phyrexian Crusader won't be removed, can't be blocked and destroys their creatures if needed...
P Crusader with SoFaI kills the opponent by connecting 3 times.
M Crusader with SoFaI kills the opponent by connecting 2 times.
That alone should make the decision for you very easy.
Phyrexian Crusader, while having a badass artwork, is not made for any deck that tries to win by reducing the opponents life total to 0.
This looks like a job for me.
Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.
Mirran Crusader will get bolted, swords to plowshares, path, goblin incinerator, chain lightning etc etc 50% of the time, while Phyrexian Crusader has immunity.
It's going to be sweet when you get your opponent playing zoo to 1 life and 8 poison counters.
Tom? Is that you? I thought you were going to go work on DnD?
I am still curious to see what his SB looks like.
lolz
Hey just wanted to type a quick tournament report for anyone who may be interested. Small 15 person tourney for a Library of Alexandria. Went 3-1, just missing top 4. I got paired first round against the eventual winner of the Library, who was my only loss.
4x Scrublands
4x Marsh Flats
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
4x Swamp
2x Plains
4x Mother of Runes
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Dark Confidant
4x Thoughtseize
4x Hymn to Tourach
1x Gerrard's Verdict
4x Vindicate
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Sideboard (expecting storm/belcher and Emrakul. Ironically, there was plenty of both, but I didn't see any)
4x Pithing Needle
4x Faerie Macabre
4x Duress
3x Diabolic Edict
Round 1: Death and Taxes (0-2)
Game 1: I mull to five and have to keep a shaky manabase. He shuts me off white with timely Wastelands. Eventually he gets an active Jitte on a Serra Avenger and I lose with three StPs and a SFM in hand.
Game 2 (+3 Needle -1 Elspeth -1 Verdict -1 Hymn): More of the same. I first turn Pithing Needle naming Vial. Second turn cast SFM fetching Jitte. He then plays a Needle naming Jitte. We stalemate for a few turns, but he manages to again shut me off white with a Wasteland, Mangara and Port. I cry at my inability to topdeck anything useful.
Round 2: Mono black Dark Depths (2-0)
Game 1: He wins die roll and rituals into duress, which completely misses, then hymn which hits two of my lands. I cry inside and think "three times in a row." I proceed to peel two lands in a row, never missing a land drop. I waste his DD and active Mom clogs up the board until I can beat in with Elspeth tokens for the win.
Game 2 (+4 Needle -1 Verdict -1 Elspeth -2 Hymn): More of the same. He first turn Inquisitions my needle but I manage to stick a Nighthawk with Vindicate and Swords back up. He never finds an answer and I beat 10 turns in a row FTW.
Round 3: Burn (2-1)
Game 1: I was confused until turn three because he is normally a goblins player and I thought he was playing some weird build with Guide and Bolt... (I'm not very sharp). I manage to get two active Moms but can't handle three Hellspark Elementals and never find a Jitte, Nighthawk or SFM. Two Bobs sat in my hand the whole game.
Game 2 (+4 Needles +4 Duress -2 Thoughtseize -4 Bob -2 Vindicate): He starts fast and gets me to 2 life. I stabilize with Nighthawk equipped with Jitte and put it out of reach.
Game 3 (same): Another fast start for him (he is playing burn after all) and gets me to 6 life. I land and equip a Jitte to a SFM with active mom on the board and think the game is won, forgetting about Sulfuric Vortex which he inconveniently topdecks. I go 4 at upkeep, crack a fetch to go to 3 and play/equip SoFI to try and dig for that damn Vindicate I cut down to 2. Swing in with SoFI and lo and behold I peel Vindicate off the trigger. I still have to pray he doesn't draw business on his next turn but he draws and plays Blood Moon. I cast Vindicate and he concedes shortly after. Very lucky.
Round 4: R/b Goblins (2-0)
Game 1: The matchup I've wanted all day. First turn Mom. Second turn SFM snagging Jitte. He can't handle the active Jitte.
Game 2 (+3 Needles -2 Elspeth -1 Verdict): I name vial with needle. He wastelands at an inopportune time, shutting himself off the 1 mana he needs to ringleader and I'm sandbagging a land anyway. I wasteland, and vindicate his Jitte, and by the time he recovers I have an active Jitte on Nighthawk. He eventually swarms and lands SGC but it's too little, too late. Didn't see a first turn Lackey either game, but had answers anyway.
While I missed top 4 and a shot at the Library, I was overall happy with the deck's performance. Deadguy feels like it has decent game against everything and great game against the two tribals, which are everywhere now. I'm definitely going to cut Elspeth and Gerrard's Verdict since they were automatic cuts every time I boarded anyway. Will try Tidehollow Sculler in their place. If you want you can check out Tim's report on his D&T deck as it is finely tuned: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?6775-[Deck]-Death-and-Taxes/page82
Also, I'd appreciate any thoughts on my list.
That wil suck indeed :( ...
Sideboard: 15
4x Engineered Plague
3x Relic of Progenitus
3x Perish
3x Extirpate
2x Duress
I think the right number for Sensei's Divining Top is one, very roughly analogous to Sylvan Library in Zoo. It's strong enough to warrant the spot in a deck that depends on having the right threats, answers, disruption or support cards at the right time and plays fetch lands; smoothing out Bob draws is a nice bonus. Since multiples are bad and you're not gaining spectacularly from seeing one early, one is enough.
It may look ugly and random, but right is better than pretty.
If i have a Top out, double Confidant won't be a problem, infact it is awesome! I don't think playing 1 Top is a good idea, it won't come up that often, i would atleast play 2 or non at all.
If you're running the SFM package (most builds are) then that means you're running at bare minimum 10 3cc. You're also most likely running 4 TS and 8 fetch, not to mention the damage you'll be taking from the new influx of tribal and zoo via combat. Add in Bob damage and it's overkill. Top maximizes threat density while minimizing life loss, and it also gurantees you drawing the cards you need. Fixing your draws is much more necessary IMO than an extra body (eg. Tidehollow) or an extra spell (Verdict). I would set the bare minimum at 3, although I think 4 is perfectly justifiable if you want to gurantee you see it.
Forlorn Egoist
The only thing my list doesn't have is 8 fetches, i run 4 and 8 duel lands lol... It works for me, but i am interested if there is a reasoning behind 4 duels and 8 fetches that gives an advantage over 4 fetches and 8 duels. If there is one, please feel free to enlighten me.
Lands: 20
4x Scrubland
4x Fetid Heath
4x Marsh Flats
5x Swamp
2x Plains
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures: 18
4x Dark Confidant
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Stoneforge Mystic
Sorcery: 12
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Vindicate
Instants: 4
4x Swords to Plowshares
Artifacts: 6
3x Sensei’s Divining Top
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
Sideboard: 15
4x Engineered Plague
3x Relic of Progenitus
3x Perish
3x Extirpate
2x Duress
I do switch between 2-3 SFM and 3-2 SDT to see what i prefer, but that is not that important.
I play 9 fetches and 4 duals so that I can fetch basics and play around wasteland...when I need to curve out at three, I cannot afford to get wastelanded. If you have a meta with zero wasteland...I can understand your rationale.
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