New Tezz belongs in a different thread. With the way Ravager Affinity is now, you can't simply just add this guy. You would probably have to update AfFOWnity or create a U/B Affinity Stax deck. Dragon Fairy Stompy, lol? He just feels like a midrange type of card. When even MOE is so close to getting the boot because of his mana cost, this guy shouldn't even be mentioned.
Revoker is amazing. I'm thinking he replaces Canonist in some sideboards, but that's not tested yet. He sort of opens up another world for affinity since we now have 2 hatebears we could play on turn 1. Either way, he definitely can address the issues that this deck has against certain decks.
The primer should be updated when someone manages to do well with a build that is generally accepted. For instance, Glimpse of Nature, Memnite and Etched Champion are officially legitimate cards to run, so they should me mentioned in the primer. It would be a lot of work for 4eak if he had to keep mentioning every "good idea" that pops up in this thread. Tournament standings should back up the viability of certain cards. We all know certain cards are really good, but they have to prove themselves.
My MTG Blog
"The game is not worth the candle."
How can anyone say that Tezzeret 2.0 doesn't belong in this thread? 90% of the people who run this deck are going to want to get their hands on him. Unless something has gone horribly wrong, he either wins you the game on the turn you cast him or the next. Yes, he's expensive, but that's overcompensated by just how incredibly good he is. From what I saw in the thread about him, most people seem to think 3 - 4 of him belong in every deck, but I remain steadfast that 1 - 2 is the correct number to play. You'd never want to see him clogging up your hand.
However, I will agree that this thread does need to be rebooted, as it's changed so much as of recent. Seeing as how the affinity mechanic is no longer center stage, I propose a new name for the archetype:
'Agents of Steel'
I think it's the perfect name for the deck.
I would like to remind you all about the existence of a diversified Ux Metalcraft Aggro-control thread, which I created a while back (late December 2010, see page 24 of this thread for details):
The initialOriginally Posted by Karhumies
splash for MD Ethersworn Canonist and Stoneforge Mystic has been scrapped and replaced with MD Tezzeret 2.0 and Phyrexian Revoker.
That deck has a very different game plan compared to more traditional Affinity builds, which IMO makes it appropriate to discuss about it in a different thread and leave this thread for the more "balls to the walls" artifact creature strategies (which really should adopt the use of Signal Pest, IMO).
Brief list of some different varieties of "affinity-type" Legacy decks, which are at least borderline popular/playable even nowadays:
Common nominating cards:
4x Cranial Plating
4x Master of Etherium (given that the deck includes)
12+ Artifact mana sources (combination of artifact lands with Paradise Mantle/Springleaf Drum/Mox Opal/other cards)
(3-4x Thoughtcast)
1)-splash Red Affinity
Basically: Any Affinity build which splashes
Signature cards: Atog, Fling, Shrapnel Blast, previously Fatal Frenzy, nowadays Galvanic Blast
Birth / initial rise in popularity: 2004 (1.5 renamed into Legacy, format ban list separated from Vintage, Mirrodin block presently in Standard)
Early signs of decline: Shards of Alara (Ethersworn Canonist and popularity of ANT and other combo decks makes
Possible re-rise to surface #1: Scars of Mirrodin (Galvanic Blast), although this has not contributed as much for the game plan as the players had initially hoped
2)-splash Berserk Affinity -> also modern-day versions of "budget green affinity"
Signature cards: Berserk, later Tarmogoyf, later budget replacement Carapace Forger
Birth / initial rise in popularity #1: 2004 (1.5 renamed into Legacy, format ban list separated from Vintage, Mirrodin block presently in Standard)
Decrease in popularity: when people realized that Berserk Stompy does practically the same thing, but faster
rise in popularity #2: Future Sight (Tarmogoyf)
rise in popularity #3: Carapace Forger as a budget creature to supplement Affinity-type aggro game plan ("budget zoo")
3) "Traditional"/"Modern"/"Typical" Vial Affinity (typically Uxy, with a possible z)
Signature cards: 4x Frogmite, 3-4x Myr Enforcer, 3-4x AEther Vial (Vial & the deck were a meta choice at the time)
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Shards of Alara (Master of Etherium), popularity of Counterbalance decks at the time
Early signs of decline: Conflux (Path to Exile), M10 (combat rules change: no damage on the stack), emerging popularity of ANT and other kinds of combo-based decks (fought with Chalice of the Void @ 0 and Ethersworn Canonist, but this was a losing battle)
Possible re-rise to surface #1: banning of Mystical Tutor, deck did not become successful (Survival did)
Possible re-rise to surface #2: Scars of Mirrodin (MD Mox Opal, MD Memnite, MD/SB Etched Champion), deck became moderately successful but is looking for additional gas (Signal Pest?) or another direction to branch off into (one of the listed-below affinity-type of decks?)
Possible re-rise to surface #3: Mirrodin Besieged (MD Signal Pest, MD/SB Phyrexian Revoker)
4) Affinity Stompy (one former build known as 8-ball Affinity)
Signature cards: Ancient Tomb, Wasteland, (Trinisphere), previously: 4x Sphere of Resistance + 4x Thorn of Amethyst, could nowadays include Magus of the Moon & Lodestone Golem?
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Lorwyn (Thorn of Amethyst)
5)Mono-brown Affinity
Signature cards: 4x Steel Overseer, 4x Arcbound Worker, Grim Monolith
Birth / initial rise in popularity: M11 (Steel Overseer), unbanning of Grim Monolith; the deck has not caught on
6)
Signature cards: 4x Glimpse of Nature, 4x Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Scars of Mirrodin (Memnite)
7) Affinity Stax
Signature cards: Vedalken Certarch, Tangle Wire, Wasteland
Birth / initial rise in popularity: work in progress since Scars of Mrrodin (Vedalken Certarch); arguably earlier (unsuccessful) deck building attempts have also been made; no complete deck list which would have fared well in tournaments so far
8)
Signature cards: 4x Ancient Tomb, 4x Chalice of the Void, complete lack of cc=1 cards in MD
Birth / initial rise in popularity: banning of Survival of the Fittest, meta choice because so many decks are very reliant on their cc=1 and cc=2 cards
Arguably this deck has been developed multiple times in the history of Legacy, whenever Chalice @ 1 has been a good meta choice for the then-present Affinity build.
9) Tezzeret Affinity (UB, with possible x)
Signature cards: Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, 4x Arcbound Ravager + 4x Disciple of the Void (although the latter is debated atm)
Birth / initial rise in popularity: Mirrodin Besieged (Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas)
this is my take on brown affinity
4 signal pest
4 steel overseer
4 metalworker
4 wurmcoil engine
4 etched champion
4 phyrexian revoker
4 steel hellkite
4 crenial plating
4 mox opal
4 grim monolith
4 voltaic key
4 city of traitors
4 ancient tomb
4 contested warzone
4 darksteel citadel
Sorry, but at that point the list doesn't belong in affinity anymore. There isn't a single affinity card in it.
It should be at a MUD thread.
Nonetheless, i think it is a tight list. Tested a lot with it? How do you like contested war zone?
i only just proxy'ed it up and tested it for a day or two so basicly no testing
i cant really decide on the contested warzone over port or maybe an arena
as to the affinity part, in general affinity cards are going out of the deck becourse more surpirior cards appear just like vial is gone as of this moment the only good affinity card is thoughtcast and maybe frogmite. so i figured this was the thread where the playstyle of the deck belonged "drop a handfull of artifacts turn 1 or 2, attack, grap a coke"
Hello,
I wanted to post the list that I've been playing around with for the last few days. Most of it has been endless goldfishing, but I was also able to play few games against pretty competitive builds of 5c Zoo, RGB Goblins and UW Tempo.
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Darkslick Shore
4 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
4 Cranial Plating
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 Thoughtcast
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
The deck has performed really well and I won most of the real games. While goldfishing, it feels very powerful, and more importantly, consistent. The deck can easily just swarm the opponent, win with Cranial Plating that equips any of the 8 'evasion guys' (Ornithopter/Signal Pest), win out of nowhere with Ravager + Disciple, or just wait for the ultimate Tezz experience.
Enjoy and try the list. Comment and critique are welcome as always!
EDIT: More comments on the specific card choices can be found in the Tezzeret Affinity thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...Affinity/page2, #26.
@kortero
i like the list but have you tried pithing needle? in a 15 land mana base with a 4cc planeswalker wasteland can really ruin your day
The good thing is that the list doesn't really rely on Tezzeret, and I actually won easily for example one game against UW Tempo where the opponent started with turn 1 Wasteland and turn 2 Wasteland. :)
The decks curve is really low apart from 3 Tezzerets and 4 Master of Etheriums, and the deck still has 22 mana sources of which 15 are lands. And I can't point strong enough the importance of Ancient Tombs, at least in my goldfishing and limited playtesting.
No frogmites? I'd advice you to take out the Darkslick Shores. You're better off with Glimmervoid (I run 2).
What does a 2/2 vanilla creature really do for the deck? I just can't see how it would improve the deck in any way, and as the list is already really tight, I can't think of anything to cut for Frogmites even if I wanted them in.
I'm also interested what would be the benefits of Glimmervoid over Darkslick Shore in a U/B build like mine? At least Darkslick Shore stays in play after Deed destroys every artifact one controls. It might be different if I wanted to splash a third color for sideboard purposes, but couple of Glimmervoids are not enough to make a third color viable and as I want to play Ancient Tombs, I'm better off with two colors. I could of course play Underground Seas, but as Darkslick Shore comes into play untapped 99,8% of the time, I decided not give Merfolk the option to Islandwalk us to death and stick with the Shores.
Last edited by kortero; 01-27-2011 at 03:47 PM.
In Kortero's build, Darksteel Citadel is better than Glimmervoid, perhaps better than Darkslick shores since you're turn 1 land is immune to wasteland, sinkhole, armageddon, vindicate, and deed. I run a similiar build, but with a few Confidants and the fourth Steel Overseer (wihout Disciple/Ravager- its not my style).
Darksteel Citadel might be a consideration, but I just don't like being colorscrewed. 8 artifact lands also feel enough since I don't play any Frogmites or Myr Enforcers. Even with the Shores in the deck I find myself sometimes needing blue or black mana which just isn't available.
Dual lands are needed even more post board since I'm thinking of packing colored spells (Thoughseizes, Engineered Plagues or even Spell Pierces) in the sideboard, but I don't really have any concrete sideplans for the deck yet.
I'm running 3x Chalice and Phyrexian Revoker in the board so I can drop the Signal Pests for it. Springleafs usually get dropped on turn 1 anyway, so Chalice has little effect. Chalice @1 + Revoker on LED = win vs. combo. Vs. control, I'd side in the same things (shut down brainstorms and 1cc removal) with Revoker on Sensei's Top.
Yeah, I'm not going to put Chalice on my sideboard since I run more 1cc spells than you do (Disciples), but Revoker is going to find it's way to the sideboard for sure. I was thinking of complementing Revokers with Thoughtseizes and maybe even some Spell Pierces in the combo matchup, and all the three cards are useful also against problematic cards such as Pernicious Deed. Thoughtseizes and Pierces hit also Null Rod, Hurkyl's Recall or other spell that might cause problems for us.
A really quick draft out of my head would be:
4 Engineered Plague (Goblins, Merfolk, Elves)
2 Umezawa's Jitte (Aggressive decks, Burn)
3 Phyrexian Revoker (Combo, Deed, maybe Vial/Top)
3 Thoughtseize (Combo, Control)
3 Spell Pierce (Combo, Control)
I don't really know if we need to pack some graveyard removal on the SB. Someone with a better knowledge of Affinitys bad matchups could enlighten me if I need to fit 2-3 Relic of Progenituses to the side board. :)
I'm going to quote Izor from this very same thread: "There is absolutely no way an Affinity build can run less than 4 Frogmites. Frogmites are the main accelerators of the deck, and they have been since Mirrodin came out."
They're an essential coponent in the deck. Paying either 1 or 0 mana for a 2/2 artifact creature is irreplaceable.
If you're running a u/b build, then Glimmervoid would be pointless, but I don't understand why you wouldn't want to run a 3 color deck in the first place. You're already exclusively running non basic lands, and you have plenty of manna fixers available to you.
Also, Tormod's Crypt is slightly better than Relic in this deck.
Last edited by The Big Ragu; 01-27-2011 at 08:29 PM.
Signal pest is the bomb in this deck.
Myr Enforce > deed.
that is all.
If anyone is running Dredge or Welder-animator in your meta, you will need 3-4x Tormod's Crypt in the SB. Dredge is the only aggro-combo deck which is actually faster in combat than Affinity, and a turn 2 Blazing Archon via Entomb->Exhume is a serious problem. The secondary choice for grave hate in sb is Leyline of the Void, NOT Relic of Progenitus. Relic is only used in decks which are scared of opposing Tarmogoyf/Knight of the Reliquary/Terravore. Affinity-type decks traditionally laugh at them, because we have much bigger lords and Plating.
...which is exactly why I generated the list of 9 current Affinity-type decks. Only 1-2 of them run Frogmite and/or Enforcer anymore, and even Thoughtcast is being dropped from many other builds.
A 2/2 vanilla and 4/4 vanilla just are not worth spending the MD slots for anymore. Not even if they are under-costed for their power/toughness ratio (which they are not so much anymore). In practise, we need more relevant board state effects, which is why IMO Signal Pest/Steel Overseer/Phyrexian Revoker > Frogmite and Etched Champion/Esperzoa > Myr Enforcer.
Signal Pest is a more relevant creature than Frogmite, because it comes active just as quickly, has evasion, gives potentially more than "just +2 power = damage" to a full-scale attack, and can chump block pretty much as effectively in today's metagame (non-flying toughness 2 or less creatures which are meant for attacking the opponent are getting extinct as we speak).
While Phyrexian Revoker and Steel Overseer cost (in practise) more than Frogmite, they have the same power but a much, much more relevant effect.
...furthermore, the "Lord effects" of Master of Etherium + Steel Overseer + Signal Pest DO stack up, and should not be negated.
Etched Champion is more relevant than Myr Enforcer, because they tend to cost roughly the same amount of mana, but E.Champion has (usually) evasion and makes for a much better blocker. On offense without Plating, Enforcer is slightly better, though.
Esperzoa is more relevant than Myr Enforcer, because they tend to cost roughly the same amount of mana, but flying makes a big difference. Sure, 'zoa dies to Lightning Bolt, but that's far from the most common creature removal used nowadays.
...and as an added bonus, having less Affinity mechanic = need for less artifact lands = Pernicious Deed and Engineered Explosives @ 0 and other similar cards do not outright kill your lands as often. Although, I can see the flip side of the coin of having cmc=7 Enforcer getting past Counterbalance and surviving Pernicious Deed/Engineered Explosives.
Etched Champion > Engineered Plague vs Merfolk and Goblins.
Last edited by Karhumies; 01-28-2011 at 09:43 AM.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote