[Deck] Zoo

[CorpT]

What do you guys think?

That I might look at the list if the card names were correct instead of unknown, useless knicknames.

[Professor Awesome]

How do you guys feel about Green Sun's Zenith?

Goyf #5+? QP and Teeg Tutor?
or Daze food in a 20 land deck?

[jandax]

I'd honestly rather run 61 cards than cut something for the Zenith. I think I'd rather have something silver-bulletish and off the wall like a lone O-ring, Naya Charm, or Ranger of Eos.

It's probably better for Elves, as a 5th Glimpse or Pact if they play combo. Worldy Tutor would be better at 1G for Zoo, but it's slow and inconsistent, the opposite of what Zoo wants to be.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Just picked up this deck. Here's my list. Any advice?

22 Land
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Wasteland
1 Savannah
1 Treetop Village
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

23 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Steppe Lynx
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kird Ape

15 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

15 sideboard
3 Choke
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[Professor Awesome]

I would advise against swords, since it's counter productive to your strategy. The opponent gaining any sort of life at all is detrimental. Swords is a control removal, not an aggro removal. Four path in exchange +2 chain. Lightning Helix is a fine alternative in an aggro heavy meta. 4 Knight is a bit much, but I can attribute that to personal preference (I run 3 and the typical amount is 2). Wasteland and treetop village should be taken out, you can't expect to have a knight out to tutor for them, and if you do, you always want to be attacking, not wasting time land cycling. Furthermore, Waste and Path don't play nice together, and cip tapped lands are to be avoided at all costs. 20-21 land is ideal.

I would increase your Grim Lavamancer count to at least 3 (4 is common, I'd almost say universal), as it is wonderful against merfolk, a very common deck. You have 9 non-grim dudes for 1, which is great. Never drop below 8 imo.

Opinion Warning*
I don't like Steppe Lynx in 'classic' zoo (that is, zoo that runs knight and doesn't run Price/Fireblast). It's worthless when you are on the draw vs lackey and similar, has little defense, and can sputter out after an initial swing for 4. It CAN get big with Knight tap effects, but why not swing with the knight too? It's often a bad lategame draw, and promotes running too many fetches. I ran it for a year and it was a total mixed bag, either being great or useless, and in Classic Zoo I feel its greatest strength should be consistency. I will say that Steppe Lynx is a complete house in more Sligh styles of Zoo, adding to those deck's speed and surprising reach (lynx for 4 on t2, cat, ape, lynx for 9 on t3 with price+fireblast for the win is alarmingly strong, albeit goldfishie and random).
Opinion end*

Your sideboard is odd, but I can't comment too much without knowing your meta. Hope this helped.

[Catitas]

Just picked up this deck. Here's my list. Any advice?

22 Land
4 Arid Mesa
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Plateau
2 Taiga
2 Wasteland
1 Savannah
1 Treetop Village
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Plains

23 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Steppe Lynx
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kird Ape

15 Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Chain Lightning
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

15 sideboard
3 Choke
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Umezawa's Jitte

You're trying a big zoo shell replacing hierarchs for lynxs and baneslayer for ape... if you want to play big zoo keep hierarchs and slayer, if fast zoo is what you want cut swords for paths, replace the 2 path you already have for 2 chain, cut treetop and wastelands for price/fireblast/helix depending on your meta, and probably cut a knight or 2 for 2 grims...

[jandax]

What if to some people see giving that extra land via PtE is a bigger threat than then gaining an attack phase's worth of life? PtE isn't strictly better than Swords, it's a fine option

[Mr. Safety]

What if to some people see giving that extra land via PtE is a bigger threat than then gaining an attack phase's worth of life? PtE isn't strictly better than Swords, it's a fine option

Swords gets better with Wasteland inclusion, a-la-Big Zoo, IMHO. You can cover the lifegain easily enough, but providing land with Path when you want to keep a superior board position? Yuck.

I think Swords is a great option if you are debating Sulfuric Vortex in the sideboard. I'm starting to see Sulfuric Vortex as a serious option in zoo, not for the lifegain hosing neccessarily, but for these reasons:

1) Almost nobody brings in enchantment hate against zoo (think about this implication for Oblivion Ring too)
2) It makes Swords an unconditional exile, while at the same time providing a faster clock
3) At 3 mana it has decent odds against CounterTop
4) It doesn't require unblocked attacks to get in for damage

[SarBashar]

Could someone help me tweak my mana base?
It works alright, but it doesn't feel "right", and I lose more games to color screw than I would like.
Feel free to make suggestions on the rest of the deck, as I'm fairly new to Zoo.

Mana
2x Taiga
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Savannah
3x Windswept Heath
3x Arid esa
2x Plateau
1x Plains
1x Mountain
2x Forest
2x Karakas

Creature
2x Grim Lavamancer
2x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Qasali Pridemage
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Watchwolf (test)
2x Knight of the Reliquary

Removal
4x Chain Lightning
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Helix
1x Fireblast

[Mr. Safety]

Couple of things:

Sylvan Library in some number (2 is generally accepted, but more isn't bad...just a personal choice).

Horizon Canopy has great synergy with the aforementioned Sylva Library, and with the high fetchland count both of them let you see fresh cards every turn.

Steppe Lynx can be insane if you get it early, especially with 9 fetchlands. It can be a terrible topdeck late game, which is why some lists only use 3 of them. If you run out of land (which is pretty rare considering Sylvan Library...) you can run the little 0/1 dork into a bigger blocker and use it to feed Grim Lavamancer. Easily a better option than Watchwolf. There are a TON of better options than Watchwolf. If you're looking for 2 slots to fill in, look to something outside of CounterTop range. The best option is obviously the other 2 Knights, but you could also use Elspeth, Knight-Errant, or just get Fireblast #2 in there along with another Grim Lavamancer.

Good luck!

[SarBashar]

Couple of things:

Sylvan Library in some number (2 is generally accepted, but more isn't bad...just a personal choice).

Horizon Canopy has great synergy with the aforementioned Sylva Library, and with the high fetchland count both of them let you see fresh cards every turn.

Steppe Lynx can be insane if you get it early, especially with 9 fetchlands. It can be a terrible topdeck late game, which is why some lists only use 3 of them. If you run out of land (which is pretty rare considering Sylvan Library...) you can run the little 0/1 dork into a bigger blocker and use it to feed Grim Lavamancer. Easily a better option than Watchwolf. There are a TON of better options than Watchwolf. If you're looking for 2 slots to fill in, look to something outside of CounterTop range. The best option is obviously the other 2 Knights, but you could also use Elspeth, Knight-Errant, or just get Fireblast #2 in there along with another Grim Lavamancer.

Good luck!

The Sylvan Library was my mistake, i run two, but my eyes glossed over them looking through the deck. I agree, in matches where it lands so far, it has been incredible.

I would very much like to run Horizon Canopy, but I am unsure of the mana base:
9 Fetch (3 each) + 6 dual (2 each) +3 basic (1 each) is 18 lands.
I really want to run at least one Karakas, perhaps two.
Does zoo want 21 lands? 22?
I suppose I could run 2x Horizon Canopy and 1x Karakas.
Cut a watchwolf for an extra Knight to tutor for Karakas as necessary; it's a touch slower, but I guess running two Karakas is still just a crap shoot against Sneaky Show (which shows up a fair bit in the meta).

And then perhaps cut the last two kird apes (which I am generally not happy with) and the other watchwolf for 3 steppe lynx?

Again though, I have no idea on the 9 fetch + 6 dual + 3 basic part of the mana base, but it feels a touch off.

[KrzyMoose]

You need more 1-drops, and Watchwolf is terrible.

11 1-drops is the absolute minimum I'd ever play in non-Big Zoo. Unless I'm playing the mirror/Aggro matchup, I will mulligan a hand without a 1-drop 95% of the time.

Windswept Heath is the most important fetchland, so you want 4 of them. If you end up running Steppe Lynx (which I fully support), you want 11 fetchlands.

I feel 21 lands is the best number for standard Zoo. Without 4-drops, 20 lands is probably okay.

[Mr. Safety]

Horizon Canopy is good enough to warrent a 1x inclusion IMHO. If you use 21 lands, that sounds good to me. You have 9 fetch + 6 duel + 3 basic + 3 utility (Horizon, Karakas) = 21

Most zoo lists use 4x Knight...it is slower to get moving, but it's the nuts for being able to tutor up these lands: Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Mountain/Mountain flavored duel for Fireblast.

Nacatl x4, Grim Lavamancer x3-4, Steppe Lynx x3 = 10-11 one-drop creatures, which should be enough. Goyf and Pridemage are your 2-drops, and Knight should top off your curve x3-4. The reason Knight is so good is that it generally gets past Counterbalance and gets huge from your fetchlands. There is some minor dissynergy with Grim Lavamancer, but you can PICK the cards you exile with Grim and avoid lands until you absolutely need to. Remember that Knight feeds itself too, which is important when facing a bigger threat (bigger Goyf or Knight/Terravore) and you need to beef him up.

This is just my opinion on Watchwolf vs. Kird Ape: Kird Ape is marginally smaller, but also costs a full mana less to play. Both are in CounterTop range, so the mana cost is largely irrelivant for that particular matchup. If you need more beef than the 10-11 1-drops you already have, Kird Ape is better than Watchwolf. I would challenge that Loam Lion is even better than Kird Ape if your metagame has a tendancy for Hydroblast/Blue Elemental Blast.

Good luck!

[Capt4in]

Here's the build I'm packing...

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Steppe Lynx
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Lightning Helix
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Mindbreak Trap

Any suggestions? I worry that 11 1-drops aren't enough, but I find mainboard Teeg to be relatively useful. Should I consider cutting Teeg for Apes or Lions, or moving him to the SB? I like having 1 Jitte in the main because I have run into many situations in which Jitte winds up being literally my only out and it is able to prove its worth (mowing down a horde of EtW tokens, wiping an Affinity deck's board, etc)

As far as SB, I added Kataki and Shusher because I have recently encountered a lot of CB and Affiinity, the top 4 slots there are flexible.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

Keep running Watchwolf. It makes you feel like you're wearing a bandolier and wielding badass guns when you attack. Plus, losing to outdated cards is always fun.

[Mr. Safety]

Here's the build I'm packing...

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Windswept Heath
4 Arid Mesa
2 Taiga
2 Savannah
2 Plateau
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Plains

4 Wild Nacatl
3 Steppe Lynx
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Knight of the Reliquary

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Path to Exile
2 Lightning Helix
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte

2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Mindbreak Trap

Any suggestions? I worry that 11 1-drops aren't enough, but I find mainboard Teeg to be relatively useful. Should I consider cutting Teeg for Apes or Lions, or moving him to the SB? I like having 1 Jitte in the main because I have run into many situations in which Jitte winds up being literally my only out and it is able to prove its worth (mowing down a horde of EtW tokens, wiping an Affinity deck's board, etc)

As far as SB, I added Kataki and Shusher because I have recently encountered a lot of CB and Affiinity, the top 4 slots there are flexible.

If you're worried about EtW tokens, I think your best bet is Pyroclasm in the sideboard. Ancient Grudge has always served me well in the affinity matchup.

Why are you playing maindeck Teeg? His effect is good, but easily dealt with by the majority of the format. I feel 2x Fireblast would go much further for you.

I'm also a huge proponent of a full set of Lightning Helix, too. Tendrils of Agony w/ a 10 storm count? Response, Helix at you, be-yotch.

[jandax]

Keep running Watchwolf. It makes you feel like you're wearing a bandolier and wielding badass guns when you attack. Plus, losing to outdated cards is always fun.

hah, that's funny whether you're being sarcastic or not

[keys]

I'm also a huge proponent of a full set of Lightning Helix, too. Tendrils of Agony w/ a 10 storm count? Response, Helix at you, be-yotch.

Not to burst your bubble but you would be dead if you cracked any fetches that game. Even if you didn't, your opponent would be at 39 life and need only topdeck burning wish to kill you with grapeshot.

[Genericcactus]

I got 12th in Vestal this weekend with this:

// Lands
1 [MR] Mountain (1)
1 [MM] Plains (3)
1 [CST] Forest (2)
3 [R] Plateau
2 [R] Taiga
1 [R] Savannah
4 [JGC] Wooded Foothills
3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [FUT] Horizon Canopy

// Creatures
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [ZEN] Steppe Lynx
1 [BD] Kird Ape

// Spells
4 [U] Lightning Bolt
4 [CFX] Path to Exile
3 [LG] Sylvan Library
3 [LG] Chain Lightning
2 [DD2] Fireblast

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 3 [8E] Choke
SB: 3 [A] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [B] Red Elemental Blast

I beat UGB Thresh, Junk, Sligh, Goblins, and GerryT Countertop, and lost to Merfolk (!) and a weird UGBR Countertop deck. There isn't much I'd change about the deck, perhaps find room for a 3rd Knight in the board. I don't understand playing less than 23 lands when we have access to Horizon Canopy.

[Loxodon Baileyarch]

hah, that's funny whether you're being sarcastic or not

I used to run a foil playset myself back in the day when I picked the deck up. I love the card because of it's nostalgia. And seeing you opponents face when you win with Watchwolf is enjoyable.