I got 10th place Saturday at the Vestal tournament (100+ players) with a match record of 5-2 and a game record of 11-4. I lost round 5 to new horizons and round 7 to RB goblins. I played Brad Nelson's exact 75 except switched the SB duress's to Gaddock Teegs. Gerard's verdict is stupid good, I don't understand why so many people have been quick to cut it.
the problem with verdict is it puts you up to 10 slots of discard. so it is very likely that you will topdeck discard well after it has no purpose. also if i did decide to run more discard i think i would run more 1 cmc discard often. I am more interested in removing their quality cards rather than gaining straiight up CA.
I think it depends on the MU. Against Goblins, I'd probably want the targeted discard to remove Ringleader or Matron. Removing Ringleader is giving you card advantage in that they don't draw 2-4 extra Goblins. Against Countertop, New Horizons, Burn, and probably Zoo, I'd want Verdict. You'd definitely want selective discard against NO decks or Dredge. Verdict is just awful against GY based decks.
I can see why 10 discard spells is good. I read somewhere that 11 of a card is the number that gives you the highest chance of getting exactly 1 of that card in your opening hand. So 10 discard helps insure you have t1/t2 disruption. I choose to run an extra Deed and an Elspeth in the Verdict slot. Both are still CA (even more so than Verdict) but of course at the trade off of being useless in the early game.
It's a tradeoff. I'm running 3 Duress and 4 Leyline of Sanctity in the board, so discard against Combo isn't a problem. Much of the time when I drew Verdict, I wanted removal, so I'm running Paths. They could be Edicts as well, but for now they're Path.
-Matt
Path is awesome. Especially when you bring in Engineered Plague. Edicts just never get there.
Agreed, agreed.
I'm wanting to Run 3 Deeds total now. Much better than I had previously tested. Thoughts?
-Matt
i myself am running the full 4 deeds, 2 MD and another 2 in the SB and i have allways loved it till now
and i for my part am running quasali pridemage in your verdict/path-slot, even though i missed verdict initially, i like quasali a lot..... verdict has one thing i liked a lot... its almost hymn 5-6 and it happens often that you get 1st turn hymn, 2nd turn verdict or another hymn, this allmost cripples every opponent, but as of now i am quite fine with the extra versatility of quasali
If you sand bag 1 to 2 lands late game, when you draw a verdict, it becomes a +6 life gain, which can be huge with dark confidant. Therefore its never really dead.Originally Posted by Rainbow Maker
Path seems reallyyy bad. It makes your wastelands worthless, and doesn't solve any of the problems that edict is in there for (emrakul, progenitus, mongoose, iona, etc). Vindicates and swords should be all the spot removal you need, and edict is there for the sole purpose of hitting things you normally couldn't.
Jon, you know your shit. There have been plenty of times verdict myself has saved me. I still think it's the weakest card in the deck and prefer something a bit more versatile sometimes.
PATH IS REALLY BAD!! I could see people wanting to run it because it exiles vengevine, but that is no longer the case. You can bet this card will never see play in my rock list as long as I'm running wasteland in the same deck... doesn't make sense, you might as well play tectonic edge! I understand edict doesn't do the same thing so I really wouldn't compare it there, but my favorite alternative is Ghastly Demise. If you're not a fan of that, Doom Blade would be better than Path to Exile!
I'm running 2 deeds in the main now and at least a 3rd in the side. I really think it's the way to go because the decks that are really doing well now are AEther Vial decks, which deed just boss against. I've even thought about running the 4th in the board as well it is that good right now. I used to not even play this card in my 75, I preferred EE which is a turn faster. Now that the meta has slowed down a turn or two, deed is back on top of the game.
Paths are good in the sb. You want it against Zoo(if you see it), Merfolk, Goblins and other decks like Bant. Only against goblins does the extra early land really hurt. The rest you're not really getting hurt by it or hurting Wasteland with it. I wouldn't suggest it maindeck since it hurts the LD aspect, but sb that's not one of your main options, you want it against creature decks.
There is the underrated ghastly demise and it seems to be always better than path. Sure it can't hit black creatures but that's why you have swords. I would play smother before doom blade personally since both cost 2 and smother hits everything relevant. Go for the throat once mirrodin besieged is released will be another very solid cmc 2 removal spell hitting practically everything and as a bonus it isn't terrible against affinity since it can hit disciple of the vault.
Gerrard's verdict is strong early and late game. I really like the card and like JonBarber said you sandbag 2 excess lands to discard to it to gain 6 late game to potentially make a lot of tempo. And while it is lackluster late game against aggro, against aggro control they can have 2 cards in hand late game to discard. The card is solid in every MU save the aggro mu except when you play it turn 2 or turn 3. Playing it turn 1 is sick as hell too. If they don't discard lands they discard business and if they discard lands well you gain life off of it giving you time to stabilize.
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I have much disagreement here. True, giving them a land in some matchups can be crap for tempo, but removing one of their creatures can be crucial. Like I said, I've found it (Verdict) to be lackluster in my meta, and so I'm running Path. I'm not opposed to running Demise, as it is REALLY good. Another problem: many black decks in my meta. Again, slight difference. I'm not saying don't run Verdict, as it depends on your meta. I'm saying I've hated it every time I drew it, so I've switched to Path for extra creature removal that doesn't rely on my yard.
Also, Wasteland seems terrible against Tribal. So far, hitting Mutavault is basically the only thing I've done (and the odd Dual if they splash). Good against basically every other deck, just been frustrating not being able to blow up lands at my choosing :P
-Matt
2 mana removal seems bad in this deck. Path isn't always great, but it is pretty good in some matchups that don't really care that much about another basic land (like Merfolk). Ghastly Demise is also pretty good, especially against tribal stuff.
i tried ghastly demise as well, but i disliked it, simply because not being able to hit confidant screwed me a few times
i can see everyone's pro and cons for the addictional removalspell, the addictional discard, i for my part simply love quasali in this slot, just because it adds some beats to this threat-light deck with the plus of versatility (tried doran as well but was not satisfied with him, made me to slow because of a to high number of 3drops)
actually i think these 2 slots that give us that much of discussion strongly depend on the meta we are playing
is your meta comboheavy run the verdicts or targeted discard for cmc 1
tribal heavy i would say go for path or demise
aggro-control to controll, get extra beats
thats what i think
I currently run 1 enlightend tutor and 1 EE in the spots where verdict used to be.Along with the deed main I find that It gives me far better match up vs merefolk and zoo the tutor becomes either in a pinch and can be a divining top if you already have either....
My list
4 x KOR
4 x GOYF
4 x Dark confidant
4 x swords
4 x inquisition of kosilek
4 x hymm
4 x vindicate
3 x divining top
3 x mox
3 x bayou
2 x scrublands
4 x verdant catacombs
4 x marsh flats
4 x waste lands
1 x plains
1 x swamp
1 x forrest
1 x karakus
1 x maze
1 x bodjuka bog
Runs fantastic and the one tutor is perfect i cut a divining top and ran 2 tutors for awhile but cut back to one because of the importance of top and have found one tutor is seamless the way it works......
I keep going back and forth between Dueling Grounds and Engineered Plague. Plague, is more aggressive but probably requires multiples. More Goblin players will be expecting Plague than Dueling Grounds. Dueling Grounds only can stall for so long because Goblins is such a versatile deck, so you better be able to get a fatty out and start punching through. Maybe running a second Elspeth again would be helpful?
I suppose, option 3 is that maybe I'm oversiding (I do that sometimes...) perhaps it'd be better to just board in some extra removal in place of Bobs and keep all of the disruption and try to kill them before they can get a board position.
oops left out thI currently run 1 enlightend tutor and 1 EE in the spots where verdict used to be.Along with the deed main I find that It gives me far better match up vs merefolk and zoo the tutor becomes either in a pinch and can be a divining top if you already have either....
My list
4 x KOR
4 x GOYF
4 x Dark confidant
4 x swords
4 x inquisition of kosilek
4 x hymm
4 x vindicate
3 x divining top
1 x enlightend tutor
1 x EE
1 x deed
3 x mox
3 x bayou
2 x scrublands
4 x verdant catacombs
4 x marsh flats
4 x waste lands
1 x plains
1 x swamp
1 x forrest
1 x karakus
1 x maze
1 x bodjuka bog
Runs fantastic and the one tutor is perfect i cut a divining top and ran 2 tutors for awhile but cut back to one because of the importance of top and have found one tutor is seamless the way it works...... e most important part of the list....lol
my board looks like this granted I dont have extirpate so that might make its way in at some point......
1 x ghostly prison
1 x ee
1 x volraths stronghold
2 x ethersworn canonist
2 x gaddock teeg
2 x tormods crypt
2 x nihil spellbomb
2 x diabolic edict
2 x tidehollow sculler
not alot of Gobs running around my meta so I dont have a ton of advice for that match up.....
mainly zoo,merefolk,some threshold and newhorizons types and combo that you see alot in my meta....
Sorry I haven't been on for the past few days, school and such. But, I did manage to (basically) take down the local once-a-month Legacy tournament.
Firstly, my list:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
4 Scrubland
3 Bayou
2 Wasteland
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Path to Exile
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Duress
4 Engineered Plague
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Extirpate
After a long day or Archaeology and fueled by several cups of Timmy's, I was ready to go. I had surveyed the field and realized I should play the only deck I have together. Pairings are called, I put away the chaff and get ready to play. I jokingly say to Jason that I'll split Top 2 with him when we win. Then, I get paired against him. Shit.
Round 1: Jason playing Junk (non-Mox Diamond Version as well, almost identical list except more Elspeth, less Deed)
I keep a hand of land, Fetch, Thoughtseize, Hymn, Swords, Tarmogoyf, Path. I win the die roll, and Thoughtseize, taking a Hymn in a hand of Goyf, Bob, Steppe, Fetch, Bog, Hymn, Inquisition. He Inquisitions away my Hymn, I drop Dark Confidant next turn. He drops Bob, I Swords. I drop a Top and start gaining massive card advantage. He drops Goyf, which I vindicate. I drop a Goyf of my own, but I end up getting my Confidant Swords'd. We have a Goyf stalemate until I blow up his, and he mine. I rip Bojuka Bog against his KotR and land another Goyf. My small Goyf starts to get there before he lands another, along with Top. I rip Elspeth and swing for lethal.
In: 3x Extirpate (didn't want to cut anything for the Leylines at the moment)
Out: 1x Vindicate, 1 EE, 1 random.
I lose horribly to Thoughtseize, Inquisition, Hymn, and double Wasteland. I wasn't even in the game.
Board: Same
Game 3 I play first and rip apart his hand early on, revealing he only has CitP tapped lands in hand after a solid Hymn. I Wasteland his Scrubland he ripped and Extirpate it. My second Wasteland seals the deal after I land Bob, then Gofy, then KotR at 6/6. He concedes and we talk about Rock.
Round Score: 1-0
Games: 2-1
Round 2: Edward playing Mono G Elf combo
After attempting to hold in a Twilight joke, I keep a decent hand with Confidant, Goyf, disruption. I have no idea what he's playing at this point, but I know he beat Bant the round before. I had him on Tribal of some kind. All in all, he turn 4 Terastodons me. I die to a Dark Confidant reveal after a hefty attack. A last ditch Thoughtseize gives me new info: Natural Order combo. I lose, and pack up for game 2.
In: 4x Engineered Plague, 1x Pernicious Deed
Out: 4x Vindicate, 1x Hymn
I go Turn 1 Thoughtseize, Turn 2 Hymn, Turn 3 E. Plague, killing 3 Elves. I land another Plague, but he Grips the first. I wreck his shit up with KotR. He can't get in the game since he can't get green creatures on board to Natural Order, I get there faster.
Game 3, he lands forest and passes. I Thoughtseize away a Winter Orb (wtf...), and he lands another turn 2. I die a little inside and play Confidant. I draw into Engineered Plague, and grind him out with Goyf. I lay a Deed later on to deal his fate.
Round Score: 2-0
Matches: 4-2
Round 3: Bryn with Canadian-ish Tempo Thresh
I had Bryn on Goblins, but apparently not. I win the die roll, and proceed to land a Top. He wastelands and passes. I play a fetch and crack it, and pass. He lands an Island. I land a Top finally, and I run out his Counters and land KotR. He doesn't see any Geese (thank God).
Out: 1x Vindicate
In: 1x Pernicious Deed (for Goose)
Game 2 he Stifles my fetchland, I get Wasted, etc. He can't hit threats, and I run 2 Goyfs and a Hymn through his seemingly infinite Spell Snares, finally landing a Goyf. He drops Goyf, I path. It goes back and forth, but I get Bob. I win shortly thereafter. Again, no Geese for him.
Round Score: 3-0
Matches: 6-2
Going into round 4, I'm the only 3-0, but my opponent won't concede, otherwise he won't get prizes. I offered to prize split, he declined. I've basically won, but we play it out. I wanted to play against Storm combo, but I got stuck with my most hated matchup: Merfolk.
Game 1 he overruns me and Wastes me 3 turns in a row. I can't get into the game, he seems to have infinite Counterspells.
In: None
Out: 4x Vindicate
We were talking here and I boarded out Vindicates for Plagues. Only after playing and losing did I realize that I had forgotten to side in. No wonder that game went horribly...We play a few fun matches after, and good times are had by all.
Overall:
6-2 regular
50/50 with Merfolk in the fun games.
Props:
Pernicious Deed doing a 6 for 1 on Merfolk, causing me to win in a fun game. Huzzah Deed! I think Deed is key in Tribal, albeit slow. One for one isn't as good here, sweep is necessary.
Tim Hortons coffee, you are delicious. I don't think I can play good Magic without you.
The Rock was busting the balls of my opponents, except when I drew absolutely nothing, or forget to side in cards...
Matt W coming in 5th with Kiln Fiend Aggro with Countryside Crusher and Spinal Villain. Destroy target Merfolk=tech?
Slops:
Not siding in cards in a crucial matchup due to not paying attention.
Playing a Rock Mirror. That's not fun. Whoever can keep Bob wins. Whoever has Top wins. Ugh.
Hope you enjoyed reading it!
-Matt
Whats your issue with merfolk? I particularly enjoy that matchup. Granted, playing with mox diamonds definitely gives an extra speed boost. As long as you can resolve a goyf or kotr, you really shouldn't have much of an issue. Save your removal for their corralhelm commanders.
Your playing niether mox diamond nor horizon canopy, so you can't play around submerge which sucks. Not losing to their wastelands is also very important.
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