[Deck] Elves Combo

[Eldarion]

Obv it all depends on the situation at hand. Both seem acceptable. We can't simply say one is better than the other in a vacuum, because there's mitigating circumstances. I used to run into the same issue when Survival was still in my deck. Glimpse is pretty damn good on its own, unless you need a specific card... say Wirewood Symbiote. Or perhaps you drew GSZ instead of that one drop elf and wish to continue comboing off? Given a choice, I'd prefer to cast the elf than tutor for Symbiote, but it all depends on the situation.

Yup, I agree it's situational, though my initial thoughts were for GSZ to replace the redundancy of Fyndhorn Elves with something that, when paired with Dryad Arbor, would allow for the turn 1 accelerant that having 8 llanowars wants to accomplish and yet would allow for versatility and combo piece fetching after turn 1. The turn 1 play is obviously something that Pact can't do because of it's drawback.

The far as Combo Elves without NO/Pro, I would say that Living Wish is the better card since the deck is more geared towards efficient and hyper-low curve for combing. GSZ is immediately recognized as having tons of potential in NO/Pro builds for the reason that it does accelerate you into turn 3 Natural Order.

I think you meant Pact when you said Living Wish here since Wish adds G1 to a creature's casting cost instead of GSZ's G. Also note that I wanted to add this to Neil's list with wishes, in addition to the 3 Living Wishes and 3 summoner's Pact. I agree with Infinitium:

"That, and it's the better card by far compared to summoners pact when not comboing since it can act as an early accelerant and actually allows you to tutor for relevant cards in advance rather than at the last opportune moment. Also, doesn't lose the game by default should the opponent be aböe to answer it."

[k2thej]

I agree that GSZ is better than pact pre-combo, but I think what's important to consider is that you really shouldn't have to tutor for anything until you combo. If you have pact in hand, you can start comboing and play a heritage (or a nettle if you already have one). I'm just not sure why people are so concerned with tutoring pre-combo; I never see a need to do this.

Also, it is worth mentioning that since I want to combo on turn 2 as much as possible, I actually CAN'T tutor pre combo since you can't cant either GSZ or pact turn 1.

[Koby]

I think you meant Pact when you said Living Wish here since Wish adds G1 to a creature's casting cost instead of GSZ's G. Also note that I wanted to add this to Neil's list with wishes, in addition to the 3 Living Wishes and 3 summoner's Pact.

This is what I'm playing right now:

1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
7 Forest

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Summoner's Pact
3 Living Wish

1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Regal Force
1 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
4 Elvish Archdruid

4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Quirion Ranger
4 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Llanowar Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Elvish Visionary

Sideboard
4 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Krosan Grip
3 Vexing Shusher
1 Eternal Witness
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Nullmage Shepherd

Also, it is worth mentioning that since I want to combo on turn 2 as much as possible, I actually CAN'T tutor pre combo since you can't cant either GSZ or pact turn 1.

Yep.

[Neil]

I agree that GSZ is better than pact pre-combo, but I think what's important to consider is that you really shouldn't have to tutor for anything until you combo. If you have pact in hand, you can start comboing and play a heritage (or a nettle if you already have one). I'm just not sure why people are so concerned with tutoring pre-combo; I never see a need to do this.

Also, it is worth mentioning that since I want to combo on turn 2 as much as possible, I actually CAN'T tutor pre combo since you can't cant either GSZ or pact turn 1.

I agree one never really needs to tutor pre-combo often. The only time when GSZ can be useful is if you do not plan to combo off but need to tutor for a card to deal with a threat that your opponent might have. I don't think that situation arises that often though.

[Eldarion]

Okay first thing is elves are not tier 1 in my opinion because spot removal really hurts this deck.

Don't you think GSZ could help you recover from spot removal? Neil, I also noted a few combo fizzles in your tourney report, in addition to the times spot removal got you in trouble. Seems to me it would be easier to restart the combo with extra tutoring. Guess what I'm saying is that there are good reasons why you don't always win off a turn 2 combo, even if you often have the cards to get it started, and in fact you don't always win, and maybe GSZ can help here. I agree that Pact is better when everything's working perfectly, but sometimes shit happens. :)

[k2thej]

Don't you think GSZ could help you recover from spot removal? Neil, I also noted a few combo fizzles in your tourney report, in addition to the times spot removal got you in trouble. Seems to me it would be easier to restart the combo with extra tutoring. Guess what I'm saying is that there are good reasons why you don't always win off a turn 2 combo, even if you often have the cards to get it started, and in fact you don't always win, and maybe GSZ can help here. I agree that Pact is better when everything's working perfectly, but sometimes shit happens. :)

This is true, but GSZ will slow the combo down, even if it could make restarting it easier. Don't forget that there are many times when you are a turn ahead of removal or a sweeper. I believe that the best thing to protect against combo threats is to try to combo before they can be played.

[NihilObstat]

Hi guys, I just came from a weekly tournament with 14 people. I went 3-1. Tied to 2nd place.

I'll do a quick report just to ask a question:

Zoo- I win g1 at turn 3 after doing mulligan to 5, g2 I lose to 2 Orim's chant, g3 long and difficult combo at 3 life. 2-1
Enchantress- Turn 2 Humility g1..., g2 turn2 Ethersworn canonist followed by t4 humility. I would have won this game if my Tendrils would have been Grapeshot. 0-2
ANT- g1 he combos turn2-3, g2 I land a turn2 Thorn of amethyst which he spend 2 full turns to destroy. Then I draw via Regal Force and play another Thorn of amethyst+many elves. He scoops. 2-1
CT Dreadstill- I lost game 1 to a fast Dreadnought, Mirror entity got me game 2 next to Vexing Shusher and Harmonic Sliver, and game 3 was won crazily this way:
I have 2 Summoner's in hand and Cloudstone Curio. I have Heritage, 2 Nettle, Birchlore and a Nought in front and 3 life. I cast Curio he Spell pierces it, so I summon Quiroin add 1 mana with nettles and summon Visionary again add another mana with nettles, Curio resolves and with 1 untapped forest I cast Qurion return Birchlore, nettle untaps... infinite mana, infinite draw from Visionary, cast Entity and hit with XX/XX Heritage.

Running Curio maindeck, plus Vexing sideboard and 2 Silence which I've been testing seems to be good enough against blue control not running red.

So, my question is, what do you guys side in for enchantress? Just Krosan? I've lost to them lately a couple times, mainly because lucky 2nd turn Humilities... Comments? Ideas?




By the way, another top, 7th of 54
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=40315

4 Hivemaster allow him to play 3 Chord of calling quite easily, plus making Mirror entity even better next to an army of insects with haste from Crossroads.

[Koby]

Vexing sideboard and 2 Silence which I've been testing seems to be good enough against blue control not running red.

A while ago I ran 2 Silence in my SB to address faster combo matchups. It also seems ridiculously good vs blue decks on critical turns.

[jrw1985]

I've been goldfishing with Combo Elves recently. I've been running a build with

Creature (35)
-/+ 1x Regal Force
-/+ 2x Birchlore Rangers
-/+ 4x Elvish Archdruid
-/+ 4x Fyndhorn Elves
-/+ 4x Heritage Druid
-/+ 4x Llanowar Elves
-/+ 4x Nettle Sentinel
-/+ 4x Priest of Titania
-/+ 4x Quirion Ranger
-/+ 1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
-/+ 3x Wirewood Symbiote
Land (16)
-/+ 8x Forest
-/+ 2x Gaea's Cradle
-/+ 2x Verdant Catacombs
-/+ 4x Windswept Heath
Sorcery (7)
-/+ 3x Genesis Wave
-/+ 4x Glimpse of Nature
Artifact (2)
-/+ 2x Staff of Domination

I used to play Summoner's Pact but I hated relying on being all-in on Glimpse. So I cut the Pacts and replaced them with Genesis Wave and Staff of Domination, and I cut the card-drawing Elvish Visionaries for a full playset of Elvish Archdruid and Priest of Titania. Archdruid and Priest allow Staff to generate infinite mana and draw your deck when you have 5 elves in play. It also is very easily played into off of Glimpse and Wave.

Does anyone play Staff of Domination or Genesis Wave? It seems like they'll work well in theory.

[k2thej]

Anyone thought about running 1 or 2 Spoils of the vault or Demonic Consultation to find a glimpse/Nettle/Heritage?

[Sims]

Anyone thought about running 1 or 2 Spoils of the vault or Demonic Consultation to find a glimpse/Nettle/Heritage?

Spoils seems unnecessary... The life loss can quickly add up, which is why it's an all in style card that I don't think Elves can afford to play.

Consultation would be fantastic if I didn't get DQ'd for playing it.

[k2thej]

Spoils seems unnecessary... The life loss can quickly add up, which is why it's an all in style card that I don't think Elves can afford to play.

Consultation would be fantastic if I didn't get DQ'd for playing it.

hahahaha didn't check if it was banned.

[Koby]

What about Brainstorm?

Nass & Hatch seemed to find a pretty sick way to run Elves.

Glimpse, Brainstorm, Intuition, VV.

You get more card drawing power, more focused tutoring, and inevitability too.

[Alexeezay]

Yea why isn't the combo elves list by Nass & Hatch listed here? Does anybody of you play it like them(VV & blue splash with brainstorm & intuition). I tested it a few times & it's pretty solid.

[k2thej]

Yea why isn't the combo elves list by Nass & Hatch listed here? Does anybody of you play it like them(VV & blue splash with brainstorm & intuition). I tested it a few times & it's pretty solid.

It does seem pretty decent, but it is a different deck. It should be called Vengevine Elves or something.

[NihilObstat]

Hi guys! I made top 8 this saturday out of 28 people. I'll just do a quick report:

Round 1 - ANT - 2-1. I win thanks to 3 Thorn of amethyst, 2 Orim's chant, 1 Gaddock Teeg.

Round 2 - Affinity - 0-2. I got Game Loss due to a mistake in my list and then on game 2 he cast turn 2 Tangle Wire when I was gonna combo off turn 2.

Round 3 - Eva-rock - 1-0 Long and difficult, but enchant removal + aggro threats were enough to keep those Pernicious Deed controlled. Mirror entity rocks!

Round 4 - ANT - 2-1. Again thanks exclusively to the sideboard.

Round 5 - Supreme Blue faeries - 1-1. We agreed to tie to make top8.

Top8 - The same Affinity - 1-2. I lost again due to his sideboard. He sided in 3 Engineered Plague, 3 Ethersworn canonist, 4 Cabal Therapy (we know each other so he discards all my Glimpse before I even start playing) + he had 4 maindeck Tangle Wire.

A few notes:
-I wasn't able to combo even once in the whole tournament, Affinity and Eva discarded my glimpses all the time, and against ANT I had to spend all my mana to tutor-cast threats against them. Thankfully Mirror Entity just makes such a fast aggro backup.
-If I had run, at least 1 or 2 Lords in my side, probably Champion and Imperious the Plagues wouldn't have hurt at all. I also couldn't find my Joraga and didn't play him which could have made a difference, too :(
-ANT seems so easy to win in their UB current list. Landing a Thorn gives us so many extra turns.
-I played against the Supreme blue in round 5 just for fun, and as I've been realizing lately, I'm lucky I don't see too much multicolored blue in my meta. They are an incredibly tough pairing.


I'll link the decklist when it's uploaded ;)
I think more people should report their tournies, specially if they are 30 or more people. I believe that can improve the threads talk about, results and not just decklists.

[Coleco]

48 players tournament at L'imaginaire in Quebec City. I play Natural Order instead of Summoner's pact.

round 1 = Zoo - Win 2-1
Win 1 game through three tarmogoyf 5/6 with Natural order and a small army of elves powered by a Archdruid + Joraga. Combo Emrakul the second win.

round 2 = UWB control - Loss 1-2
Win 1 game with a Natural Order after he counter 2 Glimpse. Loss game 2 and 3 to a total of 6 Pernicious Deed. Third game he got 4 Deed, I force him to blow them all and he force of will 2 Natural Order after that.

round 3 = affinity Win 2-1
Really fun match. Fast Natural Order got him one game and fast combo for Emrakul the other game.

round 4 = Berserk Stompy 2-0
2 hard games. Emrakul one turn before he could kill both time.

round 5 = Zoo Win 2-1
I got him the first game with Natural Order/Prog. The second game, again I resolve Natural Order and thought I got this one as well... but no! He desesperatly summon a Bloodbraid elf (he play 1 or 2 in is deck). He reveal the first card and its a land.. second card.... Runed Halo! (he have 1 in is sideboard lol) An army of tarmogoyf beat me. Third game, Natural Order for the match. Epic games and really cool opponent.

round 6 = ID

Top 8 = Zoo - 2-0
I manage to win a game against Gaddock Teeg AND Ethersworn Canonist. Joraga 5/5 + army of elves ftw. The other game he play a Canonist again but no Teeg so I resolve a Natural order for a easy win.

Split top 4.

PS: Sorry for my english.

[Koplinchen]

hello everybody,

I am running some sort of a classic build. I also used k2thej side:


1 E champ
2 fecundity
4 crypt, grip, leyline

It worked for me just fine but now I feel I need to include 4 thorn of amethyst. because ant is just faster and has diruption. Isnt 1 art ench destroying elf needed as well? (viridian, nullmage) What would you guys suggest?

- 1 grip; -4 crypt = 4 ToA 1nullmage shepard

What do you think? I love this deck.

thx

[GGoober]

What would Nullmage do to combo? Seems to slow to hit Chromes and LEDs. Although Nullmage sure beats the hell out of Affinity :P

[Neil]

hello everybody,

I am running some sort of a classic build. I also used k2thej side:


1 E champ
2 fecundity
4 crypt, grip, leyline

It worked for me just fine but now I feel I need to include 4 thorn of amethyst. because ant is just faster and has diruption. Isnt 1 art ench destroying elf needed as well? (viridian, nullmage) What would you guys suggest?

- 1 grip; -4 crypt = 4 ToA 1nullmage shepard

What do you think? I love this deck.

thx

Glad you like the deck. I think Nullmage looks to slow. I would go with either Viridian shaman or Zealot depending on your meta. Also I don't think it makes sense to run less than 4 Krosan grips, but run a Viridian instead in the sideboard. It might make sense to do that if you use living wish main deck. Have you considered running a Viridian Zealot main deck? I found that to be really good.