As we have said above, against top board in leylines and board out glimpses. Board in any lords for pacts or one drops that aren't great in aggro (like birchlore).Originally Posted by PhantomOtter
Thanks for the advice!
Current Side Board:
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Leyline of Lifeforce
1 Caller of The Claw
2 Krosan Grip
2 Viridian Shaman
2 Joraga Warcaller
2 Elvish Champion
Leylines go in against countertop or counter
Thorn for combo.
Warcaller goes in for aggro
Champion goes in for aggro
How does that sound?
I would recommend that if your deck is built w/o Living Wish to at least include one of either in the maindeck: Viridian Shaman or Viridian Zealot. Dealing with non-creature permanents in the maindeck is really useful and helps you to beat some off-beat deck (Enchantress, Affinity, etc). I prefer Viridian Shaman, as it actually seems to be useful now with all the new artifact decks, but it all depends on your metagame.
I diverge from k2thej's Leyline plan. I've tried it before in tournaments, and while it has merit against a host of decks, it means removing the best part of your deck against Counterbalance, which is already bringing in sweepers. I prefer Vexing Shusher as it allows you to maintain the Glimpse engine. It functions identically to Leyline, however it taxes your spells slightly. To compliment it, I run 3-4 Krosan Grip to handle assorted troublesome permanents (Humility, Ensnaring Bridge, Ethersworn Canonist, etc)
One time, many moons ago, I used Vexing Shusher to go off turn 2 against an active Counterbalance, paying the extra mana each time, and resulted in drawing my deck. Unfortunately I took out the Grapeshot, and ended up decking myself. Oops!!
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Warcaller and champion should both go in against top as well to complement the leylines. Also, if you go leyline you should absolutely have 4 leylines in the board.
If I move Leyline to 4 what should come out???
Should I try terastadon at all?
I wouldn't play terastodon if you aren't playing wish. With 2 shamans and 2 grips you should be fine. I would probably go to 1 warcaller for the 4th leyline, assuming you have 3 other lords MD.
Sounds great. Will give it a shot!
Update to my list:
After more testing I have taken Ezuri out of the board in favor of another warcaller
Resons:
-If you have 5 mana, you can boost your guys with a wish, Ezuri takes 10
-If you had the ten for ezuri, you can give you guys +4/+4 anyway, which is more than Ezuri, and since you have so many guys in play the trample is irrelevant
-The most important point to the combo is that if you have a wish in hand and no guys, you can play warcaller for 3 (2 for wish, 1 for him unkicked) in order to continue the combo
I found this to be much more favorable in testing, and I really, really like the change.
Went 3-1-0 lastnight with my take on Combo Elves. Here is the list:
4 Birchlore Rangers
3 Elvish Archdruid
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Summoner's Pact
1 Tendrils of Agony
13 Forest
1 Pendelhaven
SIDEBOARD
2 Jorara Warcaller
1 Nature's Claim
1 Krosan Grip
2 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Leyline of Lifeforce
2 Viridian Shaman
1 Fauna Shaman
* Found out that when you order cards online and they say that they will be delivered on the 16th, they really mean that they will be delivered on the 18th*
ROUNDS
Round 1 vs 43 Lands (I think)
Game 1: Get Tendrils Kill fairly early.
Game 2: No Sideboard. He gets Chalice of The Void at 1 and I just can't aggro enough. He gets the win.
Game 3: Take out glimpse and side in aggro the best that I can and get the win.
1-0-0
Round 2 vs Combo/Aggro Elves
Game 1: He combos first and gets the win.
Game 2: Nothing to really side in here. No way I can out aggro him. My combo falls short and he wins again.
His deck was very good and very consistent. Not to mention he was a very good player!
1-1-0
Round 3 vs Goblins
Game 1: He mulls to 6 and doesn't seem to draw anything. He scoops.
Game 2: No Sideboard. End up getting an aggro win with the help of my friends Elvish Archdruid and Elvish Archdruid!
2-1-0
Round 4 vs Enchantress
Game 1: This game was one of the most exciting games that I have had the honor to play. I get him down to 1 with 17 or so elves in play. Then he plays a Moat!!!!! Raced to find Emrakul but he gets the win!
Game 2: Take out Tendrils and Birchlore for Thorns and Warcaller. Get a turn 2 Thorn which buys me enough time to combo out Emrakul!
Game 3: Had a wonderful starting hand that led to a turn 3 combo win!!!
All and all I think that the deck did wonderful! Would like to have my full Sideboard. I do not feel bad about loss to the Elf deck because it really is a thing of beauty and he is a really great player. Was very surprised on how well it can change into aggro. Think that I will drop 1 Ranger for a maindecked Viridian Shaman. Someone suggested that but I didn't listen and I do believe since I do not run wish that having 1 maindecked could have made a difference.
PS: I placed 4th!
So is wish elves more consistent or pure combo turned aggro post board better.
I played against a friend yesterday who plays u/r landstill and is a competent player.
He plays
4 FoW
3 Spellpierce
3 counterspell
3 ligthning bolt
4 fire/ice
3 ratchet bomb
..and can side in 2 firespout.
I think against such a deck we have a very bad matchup. I won the first game, but got really lucky with top decking to combo-off surprsingly.
It is obvously hard to combo-off because he can counter glimpse & get rid of elves early, but if you side to play an aggro version the chances to beat him down are still very small. Mishra is a strong defense card and fire/ice, firespout & ratchet bomb are so powerful vs. elves
Do we just accept to have a bad matchup against this deck?
Your thougts?
If paranoid about counterspells, bring in Leyline. Bring in Amethyst to deal with the burn and the counter spells. Every deck in legacy is really mana tight, and Landstill is not an exception.
In all my testing, wish elves is absolutely more consistent. I play wish elves with leylines to go aggro post board. So I guess the answer to your question would be both haha.
As for the comments on the landstill matchup, I agree that it is a tough one. I still think going aggro is the best bet, and trying to hold many elves in hand until some lords are out and you can't be firespouted. I do agree this isn't an amazing plan though, it is a tough matchup.
The way I have played landstill in tournaments with reasonable success in the past is comboing game 1 (which you can usually do), going aggro game two with leylines, and then switching back to the usual MD and try to combo game 3. If they are a good player they tend to board out all their counters after they know you are playing leylines, which frees up your combo.
How often does it happen to you that you try to combo off in turn 2 (or when you know it is a little bit risky) commiting yourself using pact, and you draw bad and/or get somehow disrupted sot it does not work?
I go for turn two combos a LOT. Almost every time I think there is a chance. It really comes down to how well you can play the deck. If you play it right, you shouldn't run in to bad draws. Good players assume they are going to draw lands and plan their combos around this (getting as much card advantage per creature played as possible).
It depends on the build. I designed my build to complement my aggressive comboing style. I designed it to make as many successful combos as possible at the expense of addressing some potential threats (I don't have any artifact enchantment destruction MD, but I do have wish)
As for the exact percentage of times, I think when I go for combos on turn 2, I go off around 75% of the time. The reason I like going for it on turn two is because even if you do fizzle (which shouldn't happen often if you are smart about it) you still have enough guys to have an insane clock going.
As for pact, if you think using pact will give you a more than 50% chance of going off, do it. It usually works out, and if it doesn't you will surely have enough guys to pay it. It is really a matter of being able to make the best possible choices on who to play and who to summon at every single step in the combo. I used to lose to pact fairly often, now I never do. It's just a matter of practice.
I'm with k2thej on Summoner's Pact. Don't cast it if you suspect removal on your mana producer. The safest time to cast it is if you control 4 Forest, but if I think that I may be able to pull off Emrakul on the same turn, I just rocket-dog into the combo portion. Practice games will let you figure when you can and when you shouldn't cast Summoner's Pact.
BTW, If the spell is countered, you will not have to pay the upkeep cost, it requires the spell to resolve.
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Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
No one counters Pact, the counter the creature you look for and then screw you up ^^
I agree with k2thej, I used to lose to Pact many times, but after 5 months of playing elves NON-stop, I never do anymore. This deck really needs to be learned all throughout. I considered myself to be really good at it 1 year ago, but back then I never won in tournaments, but right now I keep top8ing all the time.
I just came from a tiny weekly tournies, and I wen 4-0. Matchups:
-Canadian. I used to consider it a bad pairing, but I realized that an uncountered glimpse setting 5 elves early in the game is good enough to win. Just play, no fear. Also lords help a lot. 2-0
-Dreadstill. He plays everything but FOW, so that helps. Tough anyway, 2-1.
-Punishing fire ZOO. I comboed after seeing 4 elves die to removal. Game 2, he sets up a doble Grove of the Burnwillows, with 2 Noble Hierarch and 1 Punishing fire. I keep playing elves, so he doesn't have spare mana to play threads, and after counting 9 or 10 elves in my grave, I luckily combo out. 2-0
-LED Dredge. He was a little unlucky and was always 1 creature, or 1 Bridge away from winning. 2-0
K2thej, I agree with all that you say, but I would like you to post some reports so that we see that your list works all that well.
I'm running the same list I used to, but I have replaced Chord of calling with Green sun's zenith, and have taken out Burrenton forge-tender and Yixlid jailer from the side, and out also Wirewood hivemaster, and Mirror entity from MD for more 1 drop elves.
Unfortunately, since I am studying in Scotland for the semester, my most recent tournament was the Star City Games Open in MA in November =(. I was one TURN away from top 8-ing, but these things happen. The report was posted in the thread in November. This was before I was playing the wish build, and I return to the states hopefully on May 25th, just in time to make Grand Prix Providence!
Have you looked into any places where they might hold Legacy events in Scotland? I'm studying in Japan for the semester so I know what you mean, but everyone knows that there are people here who play Legacy, so I was able to track down a store.
I'm at St. Andrews so there is unfortunately no store in the town, and travel to the nearest city with a store is not cheap. I can wait though.
Also- everyone should take a look at the last few pages of the Ichorid thread. They are talking about how to play against elves and they have NO idea what they are doing haha.
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