I understand your point. I was considering running extra copies of spell pierce. I have also considered Spell Snare. The new ivory mask (leyline of sanctity) is a strong card which improves his matchup, too, But I'm afraid that I will end loosing to goblins if I manage to stretch my sb a bit further.Originally Posted by Karhumies
Anyways thanks for the help
If only Phyrexian Revoker had a big ass like Fathom Seer. As it is, I am going to try him out as a one-of in my sideboard. It's tutorable and right where we want him on the mana curve for Vial.
My board looks like:
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Aura of Silence
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Spell Pierce
1 Jotun Grunt
Just wondering: What does everyone else's sideboard look like, and for what metagame?
Won another local tournament yesterday, facing 4C CB-Top (1-1), Blue Myr Jank (2-0), Dredge (2-1) and 4C CB-Top (2-1). I'm not running any cards from the latest set yet, as I wasn't even aware that the cards were already legal ;)
My sideboard was the following:
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Aura of Silence
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Propaganda
1 Aura Flux
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 slots I can't recall right now.
Our meta is known to boast CB-Top variants, Goblins, Merfolk, Dream Halls/Temple Bell combo, Enchantress, Lands, Rock, Burn, Belcher, ... pretty much everything, really, with a notable absence of Zoo and Storm Combo as of late.
I like Revoker. Even though I would never run Needle, the fact that he has a body makes up for it. The most common use I've found for him is shutting off Pridemage in Zoo/Bant/GnT, but there's never a shortage of targets for him. He's also colourless which has been strangely important for me - I've been running into a lot of Moms lately. Got to shut off some fancy mana abilities yesterday too. Haven't tried it against ANT/TES/combo yet, but I imagine shutting off LED would be pretty nice.
How is the Propaganda working out for you, Colo? Do you ever have problems casting it? I have tried switching it but I've found that I never want to pitch it to Force when I have it, and I assume Prison was there originally because we want to be able to stick to white as much as possible. Also, you mentioned that you had Submerge in your board on the last page. I really would like more spot removal, but I haven't found a good alternative yet.
I'm running Propaganda instead of Ghostly Prison to increase my post-board blue count. I never got to use it yet, so maybe it's a good call changing it for something that matters more.
The three slots were allocated to
1 Chill (awesome, turns burn - which is indeed a not-so-sweet matchup at all - into a bye once resolved)
1 Engineered Explosives (to deal with tokens, mostly)
1 ...orrrr, I cannot believe I forgot again! It was another tutor target, though it lapsed my memory _again_.
I decided not to pack Submerge last time, as I never felt tempted to board it in when I had it.
I kind of like the prison since it can't be REB
The 15th card in my sideboard was Serenity, by the way.
I've been reading the source for quite a while, but this is my first time posting. I took U/W Tempo to a local tourney today for the first time and won it, going 6-0. (4-0 in the swiss, break to top 4).
I've been piecing the deck together, and this morning decided I would play it if I could borrow some tundras and strands. Thankfully, my friend wasn't going to need them, so I got to take a break from playing Lands.dec.
My list I ran with,
// Lands - 17
--------------------
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Polluted Delta
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
// Creatures - 21
-----------------------
4 Serra Avenger
4 Mother of Runes
4 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Vexing Sphinx
4 Fathom Seer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Ethersworn Canonist
// Spells - 22
-------------------------
4 Daze
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
-----------------------
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Aura of Silence
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Pyrexian Revoker
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Hibernation
2 Submerge
1 Spell Pierce
First, let me say that I know the Ethersworn in the main is really random. But I was letting another friend borrow two of my vials, and it seemed better than a third pierce. Additionally, I knew that at least two of the best players there would be playing elf combo and SI, so it was also something of a meta call. Further, the lack of gravehate in the board is due to the only graveyard deck around here being my lands deck that was sitting in my bag.
Anyway, a short report, I didn't take notes.
R1 vs a random g/b ramp deck with lots of basics
G1 I dazed a couple early rampant growths, he played a couple birds of paradise, I stuck a mom, serra, and then jitte. The game was over in short order.
Sideboard -2 vial - 2 Pierce +2 Hibernation +2 Submerge
G2 I played 3 wayfarers, a mom, and a stoneforge for a jitte while he played ramp spells. It was not close.
Kinda felt bad playing against him with and actual deck. But it is what it is, we're friends, we smack talked and had fun with it, so it's all good.
R2 vs Deadguy
G1 I keep a hand with x2 tundra, mom, daze, jitte, serra, fathom seer on the draw. He opens with thoughtseize, takes mom. Then proceeds to runner runner wastelands on my tundras while I draw lots of sphinxes. At least it was over quick.
Board -2 Vial +1 Revoker +1 Jotun Grunt (I kept in the pierces because I was afraid of thoughtseize, and grunt seemed good because he's bigger than all my opponents creatures.)
G2 I pierce his seize, play a wayfarer, and waste him out of the game by putting them on the bottom with grunt. At some point he plays a pithing needle naming Jitte, making the one in my hand very sad. But it didn't make much difference as I attacked his empty board.
G3 I play a wayfarer, force his swords on it, and then play my revoker, naming vial. In a few turns the revoker has a jitte on it with a mom watching over him, and the game ends in short order. As my opponent kept the "1 land and a vial" hand and didn't draw a second land until far too late.
R3 vs Elf Combo
G1 She mulls to 4. It wasn't a very exciting game. She scooped as soon as I pierced her glimpse.
Board -2 Vial -2 Pierce -2 Daze +1 Ethersworn +1 Revoker +2 Submerge +2 Hibernation
G2 She opens with turn 0 x2 Leyline of lifeforce. The force in my hand is very sad. I don't remember a whole lot of this game other than her casting shaman to destroy a Jitte at some point, and me casting hibernation with her swing for lethal. The look on her face was priceless. That slowed her down enough for serra and sphinx to get there.
R4 vs SI
G1 I know what he's playing so I mull to six to find a force hand because I lost the die roll (every time, gotta love it). He attempts to go off, I force his cruel bargain, and his cruel bargain the following turn finds no gas. So I just manage to pull the win by attacking with a sphinx for a few turns.
Board -2 Vial -4 Swords -1 Wayfarer +1 Ethersworn +1 Revoker +2 E. Tutor +1 Thorn +1 Aura of Silence +1 Peirce
G2 We both mull to six, he plays a carpet of flowers. Awkward... I do nothing. He then plays around daze, going bayou, petal, xantid swarm. I don't have force, having kept a peirce, daze, thorn, ethersworn, x2 land hand. Things are looking bad. I play the thorn, which earns me a grimace. he makes a chrome mox. I get another land, play the ethersworn. He again does nothing. I play and equip my topdecked jitte and start doming him. I plays a belcher. I crack for as much as I can... He belchers me for... 15. I hit him for lethal. Way too close.
Top 4
R1 vs Mono blue merfolk.
He wanted to go home, had something or other to do. So he left. I get the win. I'll take it i suppose.
R2 vs SI (same guy)
G1 I win the die roll. Keep my seven. Pierce his land grant, as the bayou would have killed me dead to a rather large teldrills. The next turn he laughs as he draws his bayou, plays it, and then stops laughing when I force his draw four. Get my turn, waste his bayou and play a mom. He plays draw-go for a few turns while i get in there with mom beats. Eventually I get a stoneforge, suit her up, and he just can't draw anything other than rituals.
Board same as before
G2 He leads with duress, taking force. I force him to use up a petal to pay for daze on his xantid swarm the next turn. Stick a mother of runes the turn after, followed by a revoker naming Goblin Charbelcher. He has no way to win other that draw 2 of his natures claims. He only draws 1 before dieing to hatebear beats.
I had a lot of fun with the deck, the interactions between the cards felt so powerful. I know I never mentioned the card in the report, but fathom seer was the MVP of the day for sure, finding me jitte's, forces, keeping sphinx alive, and having a huge butt.
I'd love to hear some input from some more experienced U/W Tempo players on my list, my board, and what I boarded for the matchups, and whatever else comes to your minds.
Thanks for reading.
Thanks for the report and congrats on your finish!
MD Jötun Grunt (instead of Daze #4 and Canonist) is not only for gy hate: it will also help against creature-based decks to stabilize in the mid-game. Particularly against Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker and Grim Lavamancer, but also Knight of the Reliquary and Terravore. Especially against Zoo and Zoo-like decks, Canonist + 4th Daze seems strictly worse, but if you know your meta well enough, you can make meta calls.
Phyrexian Revoker seems like an excellent SB addition to this deck, as Mom can protect it. Nice find. :)
Llawan is expensive in mana and narrow. Merfolk can play around it with AEther Vial. Although I guess it does provide an out against Progenitus, but you already have Hibernation against that. Depending on the meta, I might still rather play Wing Shards over both. Submerge is there for...what exactly? Wouldn't 2x Condemn or 1x Karakas accomplish kind of the same thing, with the additional benefit of bouncing Emrakul? Anyways, I would like to see 1x Relic of Progenitus on the board versus Tarmogoyfs and Terravores even if there are no gy-based strategies (Life from the Loam, Dredge, Welder-animator) in the meta.
Thanks for your input. The Canonist was a meta call for sure, she would be a grunt if I was going into a large tourney or a blind meta. I knew that there would be a max of 1 goyf/knight deck in the room, and at least 2 fast combo. I love me some jotun grunt though, don't get me wrong. People around here just don't like turning big green monsters sideways very much.
I personally really like the 4th daze, but I'm totally open to trying different things. What would you recommend in the slot, vial? Grunt? Knight of the white orchid? Maybe a Vendillion Clique? (upping blue count and yet another evasive, beater).
I agree, Revoker is nuts. Both of my oponents I played him against had a few choice words to say about it. :)
Llawan is expensive and narrow, I agree 100%. I just wanted a miser card against merfolk, and really had no idea what else to play. What's a good card against them that's less narrow? Hibernation is a nod to my elf-obsessed friends. Submerge was there just in case people showed up with Knights and goyfs, as submerging knight in response to her activation feels awesome. It ended up being irrelevent, as I didn't play the one rock player. I've never liked bringing in relics against goyfs, which is another reason for the submerges. I'd rather timewalk them or just send the pesky thing farming. But if that is something this deck needs to do just say so, as I don't really have any experience on the matter.
I didn't even think of wing shards, I'll try it out, thanks. I love Karakas, and would deffinetly play it if anyone was going to be rocking show and tell. See, the thing is, here in northern Nevada is that all us legacy players know each other, help eachother brew, test together, go to events together. So we all know each other's 75. It's a small community right now, but growing.
I guess my point is that my sideboard was really a meta thing, a "I guess I'll just play this card" thing, and a "I'm not losing to combo" thing as well. If I decided to play the deck at say a 5k or a gp the board would certainly be different.
I'm loving casting fathom seers again, and would like to get better at it. So thanks again for the input.
Has anyone done much testing with the new Relic Warden out of besieged? He seems really good on paper.
In a larger meta against an opponent unfamiliar with the UW Tempo deck, morphing a Fathom Seer before declare blockers to "nullify" the opposing islandwalk is priceless (even though it's a once-only per opponent, ever). Other than that, Phyrexian Revoker or Pithing Needle for AEther Vial/Jitte/Pokémon fish (depending on what they actually have on the table) goes a long way in the MU, as they don't really bounce anything. You'd be surprised at how many fish players go with 1 land hands, if they have a Vial or 2 in their opening 7...
If you keep your island count in check (preferably at 0), the pokémon should be your primary concern if the opponent does not run Jitte. As in if nothing on their side flies, you are free to beat face with S.Avenger. Wing Shards can also help, but it doesn't get that much storm count. Some people have even run SB Condemn for this MU, but basically any instant removal can screw their combat math.
One of the most important things is to keep their lord count low, so that you can kill while blocking with mom + avenger (preferable), or at least mom + jötun (cutting close).
My sideboarding would probably be
-4 Wayfarer (assuming they have mono-U with high Island count)
+1 P.Needle
+1 P.Revoker
+2 Wing Shards
with possibly
-2 S.Pierce on the draw (not many targets for this against 20 lord build if going 2nd)
+1 Propaganda / Ghostly Prison
+1 Jötun Grunt or yet another creature removal spell
Don't side out all Wayfarers. You still need to be able to get rid of Mutavaults and sometimes, of your own Tundras. Spell Pierce is a sure go.
Prison isn't too appealing either.
If you're really having trouble against Merfolk, I would either swap out a maindeck Jitte for SoFI or put it in the board somewhere. It's certainly not as versatile as Jitte, but it's got it's own benefits. The extra mana hurts a lot in some cases, though.
I have read through almost all of the pages in this thread, and didn't see much discussion on [cards]Coralhelm Commander[/card] as an alternative 2cc beater He's yet another mana sink in this very mana-hungry deck, but he's got some nice perks to make up for it. Honestly, it doesn't take much to level this guy up, especially with a typical three Vial list. His double U casting cost is the main factor holding him back, I think.
He may look like a dumb, inefficient beater but I'm finding evasion to be more and more important to squeeze through some early damage and make vialed Grunts with Mom backup that much more scary mid or late game. He has a decent body and pitches to Force. I'm suggesting him is because I really think the deck would benefit from a solid two drop to help it curve out a little better. One that can come down early and stick around. Since more than half the two drops can't be Vialed in whenever ( Grunt, Seer ), it's really up to Mom to stall and then pray for an angel to save us. You could argue that Grunt and Seer can be used in a pinch in that fashion, but really we're not getting the most use out of them if we just drop them to stem the bleeding early on. UW Tempo is all about grinding out that CA from our critters. Honestly, I have just been looking for Avengers 5 - 6 to put in here, but I cannot find a strong alternative. CC is currently being tested with -1 Sphinx -1 Avenger. Not sure whether cutting Avenger is the right choice. Perhaps Vial?
I've been trying out Vexing Sphinx, how exactly do you use him properly? I'm assuming he comes down mid-late game when you have a few dead cards like extra Stoneforges, Vials, and Jittes, but is he only supposed to stick around for two turns? Or do you try to keep him for three?
There's no golden rule for that. Last time I resolved Sphinx on turn 3 against Dredge, I gladly chose not to turn her sideways even a single time, removing all my opponent's four Bridge from Below in exchange for my 4/4 flier. That's a good deal in my book. In general, I try get to attack with Sphinx at least twice. That's 8 damage done, 3 cards discarded, and 3 cards drawn. If I need to squeeze in some extra damage, and there's no exiling removal in sight, I very well may be having more, and longer, fun with her.
He's versatile:
1 full turn (0 payments) - 1UU: Buy one turn if the opponent does not wish to engage a 4/4 flying blocker. Destroy opposing Bridges, if there are any. Draw a card. ("fog-like" real cantrip)
2 full turns (1 payment) - 1UU: Buy two turns, as described above. Discard a card. Then draw two cards. // 4 damage to target player, provided there are no blockers with flying. Discard a card. Then draw two cards. ("cantrip", but improves card quality)
3 full turns (2 payments) - 1UU: 8 damage to target player, provided there are no blockers with flying. Discard three cards. Then draw three cards. (-1 card, so basically 8 damage for 1UU, which is nice + improves card quality)
But he's generally not worth the 4th turn, unless the opponent is down to 4 or less life and you think you will be able to connect once more ftw.
4 full turns (3 payments) - 1UU: 12 damage to target player, provided there are no blockers with flying. Discard seven cards. Then draw four cards. (-4 cards=yikes.)
The decision between 2nd and 3rd turn depends on a lot of factors:
-can the +4 damage (attack) or +1 turn (threaten to block) on the 3rd turn make a difference?
-are there still dead or semi-dead cards to pitch? (marginal cost of cards in hand versus expected average revenue of unknown cards from library)
-what is the likelihood that your opponent has been reserving an exile-effect to turn your Sphinx into a -4 card advantage in his favor during the combat of the 3rd turn? Can you prevent this from happening, or did you just pitch the relevant counters out of idiocy in the upkeep?
Ah, I forgot that you add a counter first before saccing it. That definitely makes him a lot better.
Sine we are already playing Stoneforge mystic, as anyone thought about including a copy of bonehoard ?
It's a fetchable creature with mystic, can be played as an instant, it's only countered by stifle type effects and stays in the battlefield as an equipment after the opponent deals with with the germ token. Normally a pretty big one too...
Seems like dis-synergy with Grunt, would be difficult to hard-cast, and what do you take out to make room?
Just looking for some insight here.
You are on the draw
game goes:
t1 nonbasic, 1 drop
t1 tundra, ww
t2 nonbasic, 2 drop
t2:
Do you activate ww during your upkeep? Do you get a wasteland, fetch, or tundra? What decks would change this strategy? I realize it changes by what's in your hand, deck you're facing, etc. However, I'm asking for general guidelines of when it's better to disrupt your opponent's turn 3 vs. developing your own board.
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