[Deck] Elves Combo

[k2thej]

Just out of curiosity, I'm not new to Elf Combo, I saw it's first days of creation when Glimpse was first printed and Legacy was still considered Type 1.5, but I am new to piloting it. I just recently acquired key components of the deck (all but Pact of Summoning), but since it's capable, why not consider using Biorhythm? Sometimes it kills your opponent, other times it'll put them well within killing range and see minimal hindrance to yourself.

It is possible, but it is a less secure win than Emrakul, stormkills, and banefire, so there isn't much of a reason to use it over them.

[Hawdes]

Haha I mean it's not the ONLY thing. I do think cradles (especially 3 or 4), witness, running multiple wincons, arbor elf instead of more llanowar, and horizon canopy are generally suboptimal MD in combo, but you can see how it tests.

I don't want people to take this the wrong way, but I generally think that any differences from my list are less sub optimal. I think this because I tried to make my build as efficient and consistent as it could possible be. If I thought a change that someone suggested was better than what I had, I would obviously make the change in my build, so clearly I think the changes to your list should essentially move it to mine, but again, test it and see what you like.

Coiling oracle would be great, so would mask of the mimic. The problem is generating blue mid combo. Tapping 2 elves for birchlore is far from optimal when you want to be tapping them for heritage and are often tight with the numbers you can tap. Lands are also usually tapped out so the blue couldn't really come from then except at the start. I thought about this for a while too though.

I just have to say my two cents here... I've been browsing this thread aswell as all other elf-deck threads, and I must say that whatever plan you go with, it comes down to personal play style. I would say that each archtype has it's pros and cons... The "Glass Cannon" elf combo deck which we see posted here from k2thej is really damn fast and consistent.
I've tested it and it's good, but it still has that glass cannon factor which I do not like, and that's my own opinion and I'm not trying to project it onto anyone else.
It's a good deck/list and if you want to win fast and pretty consistent, it's the way to go.
But I'd rather be playing GSZ since it offers more stability (read not a glass cannon) overall and in my test games, with my list, it has been promising.

I've seen the discussion between the front figure posters here and the builds, and as said, they have pros and cons. :)
This is not a rant, I just felt that I had to speak up when someone is so "confident" that their list is the best, when it really comes down to personal preferences and play style.

[k2thej]

I just have to say my two cents here... I've been browsing this thread aswell as all other elf-deck threads, and I must say that whatever plan you go with, it comes down to personal play style. I would say that each archtype has it's pros and cons... The "Glass Cannon" elf combo deck which we see posted here from k2thej is really damn fast and consistent.
I've tested it and it's good, but it still has that glass cannon factor which I do not like, and that's my own opinion and I'm not trying to project it onto anyone else.
It's a good deck/list and if you want to win fast and pretty consistent, it's the way to go.
But I'd rather be playing GSZ since it offers more stability (read not a glass cannon) overall and in my test games, with my list, it has been promising.

I've seen the discussion between the front figure posters here and the builds, and as said, they have pros and cons. :)
This is not a rant, I just felt that I had to speak up when someone is so "confident" that their list is the best, when it really comes down to personal preferences and play style.

I completely agree with you Hawdes. I wasn't trying to get across that my list is the best, I was trying to get across that I THINK my list is the best. I was just saying this because when people ask for my advice on a decklist, it is obviously going to be me pushing them towards the list that I think is the best, which is obviously the list I would want to play. There is a lot of debate but I was just commenting on the fact that everyone tends to think their list is the best since that is obviously the reason they want to play that list over others. The reason for this was to avoid me giving redundant posts responding to anyone who asks for decklist comments.

[InResponseForceOfWill]

k2thej, have you ever tested Staff of Domination as a win condition? If so, how did it perform for you, and what was your final opinion?

[catmint]

Since we discuss the same things all over again, I hope you find it good to talk about some specific questions concerning mulligan (k2thej's list):

all hands in game 1 against unknown.
Would like to hear your thoughts like
"clear mulligan", "would keep if.... "
"keep & my gameplan is to.... "

Hand 1:
forest, wirewood, glimpse, wish, pact, pact, archdruid

Hand 2:
fetchland, archdruid, heritage, heritage, visionary, regal force, pact

Hand 3:
forest, fetchland, fetchland, symbiote, symbiote, quirion, fyndhorn

Hand 4:
forest, fetchland, fetchland, birchlore, wish, regal force, glimpse

Hand 5:
4 fetchlands, glimplse, pact, birchlore

Hand 6:
2 fetchlands, forest, fyndhorn, wirewood, birchlore, birchlore

Hand 6:
forest, forest, fetchland, heritage, heritage, birchlore, pact


I would also find it interesting to post certain spots, where we can dicuss about what the best play is:
i.e:
- I play g1 vs. counter-top and face a decision in turn 2
- I start in Turn 1 with mana-elf
- Opponent plays SD.top
- After the draw our hand is: fyndhorn, nettle, pact, visionary, regal force, wish

what's your gameplan from here on? what are the different routes you would go for?


I think in general having a discussions in this direction can make us all better players and is more valuable than philosophizing about decklists.

[k2thej]

This is a great idea to further discussion catmint. Here is what I would do, though a lot of the gameplan does depend on what you draw



Hand 1:
forest, wirewood, glimpse, wish, pact, pact, archdruid

Keep. I know it seems bad at first, but you need to top deck any one drop elf in your deck to make it work, so the probability is overwhelmingly in your favor. Gameplan would be straight combo, likely on turn 3. You play the elf, turn 2 you wish a cradle, turn 3 you combo.


Hand 2:
fetchland, archdruid, heritage, heritage, visionary, regal force, pact

Keep. Fetch turn one, play heritage. Turn two play either the other heritage or if you drew another land summon nettle and cast archdruid. From there it is pretty straightforward. A lot of this depends on your draw though, for example, if you drew a glimpse then you would play visionary turn 2 to set up turn 3 combo if you drew a land.


Hand 3:
forest, fetchland, fetchland, symbiote, symbiote, quirion, fyndhorn

Mull. No card draw, no aggro option, no tutors.


Hand 4:
forest, fetchland, fetchland, birchlore, wish, regal force, glimpse

Keep. In general if the only thing you are missing to combo is more one drops, then keep the hand, you will almost always get them. Not to mention you can wish a warcaller into your hand one turn 2 so you have at least one guarenteed for turn 3, plus the likely draws you will make. This hand will work out.


Hand 5:
4 fetchlands, glimplse, pact, birchlore

Risky, but keep. t1 birchlore, turn 2 glimpse, summon nettle, drop as many one drops as you can. If you see a pact or a ranger you can go off, and if you don't then it is very likely you will still be able to pay pact and go aggro. Like I said, it's risky, but you already have 4 lands in hand so you have a low prob of hitting more within the first few draws. I say go for it.


Hand 6:
2 fetchlands, forest, fyndhorn, wirewood, birchlore, birchlore

Essentially the same situation as hand 3. No card draw, no aggro option, no tutors. You shouldn't plan on waiting for these.


Hand 7:
forest, forest, fetchland, heritage, heritage, birchlore, pact

Keep. T1 heritage. T2 heritage, birchlore, float GG and pact for either archdruid or visionary depending on what you saw in your first draw.



@FOW- it's not really a wincon it just tries to help you combo, but I think it is not as good as cloudstone curio for that job, and I don't think running that card is worth it either. Maximize your one drop count! haha.

[catmint]

Hand 1:
forest, wirewood, glimpse, wish, pact, pact, archdruid

Keep. I know it seems bad at first, but you need to top deck any one drop elf in your deck to make it work, so the probability is overwhelmingly in your favor. Gameplan would be straight combo, likely on turn 3. You play the elf, turn 2 you wish a cradle, turn 3 you combo.

interesting:the elf that you need to draw must be a mana elf... otherwise you don't have 2 mana to wish for cradle. ...or am i missing something

Hand 5:
4 fetchlands, glimplse, pact, birchlore

Risky, but keep. t1 birchlore, turn 2 glimpse, summon nettle, drop as many one drops as you can. If you see a pact or a ranger you can go off, and if you don't then it is very likely you will still be able to pay pact and go aggro. Like I said, it's risky, but you already have 4 lands in hand so you have a low prob of hitting more within the first few draws. I say go for it.

wow... I am going to goldfish that one. I feel we too often loose the game if you pact here in t2. Not to mention that someone might kill/remove birchlore in response to our nettle. Thought this one is a mulligan.

[Lillinux]

Hello everyone,
somebody have seen the decklist of Gerry Thompson on SCG Washington DC?
It's a GWB Elves combo., but the question is: black for what???

[k2thej]

interesting:the elf that you need to draw must be a mana elf... otherwise you don't have 2 mana to wish for cradle. ...or am i missing something


wow... I am going to goldfish that one. I feel we too often loose the game if you pact here in t2. Not to mention that someone might kill/remove birchlore in response to our nettle. Thought this one is a mulligan.

Ya if I was up against burn or zoo I def wouldn't go for the t2 combo. It's dependent on the matchup, but in general I go for those things.

You could draw a mana elf or a land, so you have quite a few cards that will allow you to do this.

@Lillinux- haven't seen it, post a link if you find one I'd love to take a look.

[Lillinux]

@k2thej : I haven't seen it too and i'm looking for it.
In a report , in this forum (about zoo), there is a guy who have played agiant him.
I found only the top16 decklist, this list is in top32...grrr.

[catmint]

I found this gwb elve combo list which is not the one you are looking for
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=36806

This list looks like Gerrys first draft...
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...y_Brewing.html

...
I also once thougth about having black for thoughtseize in an attempt to build a vintage version, however never really tested it.
.. I can't imagine that it works about to sacrifice that much of your combo for thoughtseize, but apparently it does.

I also feel it is very vulnerable to land destruction... altought the list plays more lands, you would still keep a 1 land hand. Fetch forbayou to cast thoughtseize. ..you see a wasteland and your odds are very bad.

[k2thej]

I found this gwb elve combo list which is not the one you are looking for
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=36806

Think i found the list your looking for here (scroll down a bit)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...y_Brewing.html

I'm not a premium member or whatever, could you post the lists?

[Lillinux]

I found this gwb elve combo list which is not the one you are looking for
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=36806

Think i found the list your looking for here (scroll down a bit)
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...y_Brewing.html

May be the second is the answer to my dreams.. but i'm not a premium member, so i cannot see the decklist.

[1maarten1]

May be the second is the answer to my dreams.. but i'm not a premium member, so i cannot see the decklist.

I saw the coverage of Gerry Thompson's list in round 5. He was 4-0, got paired against Enchantress which he won 2-1, 5-0 record and he proceeded to lose to the Zoo deck with GSZ, and then lost to Goblins in round 7. (thats when I went to sleep)

His list had the basic combo, Entity as finisher (fetch + savannah in the manabase for that)
The black was really tech: He had Vengevine's in his board, and as black tech card: Burried Alive to get 3 vengevine in the grave at once. (I dont really like it, but I guess its possible)

He ran Crop Rotation + Gaea's Cradle main, which isnt very surprising seeing his kill is Mirror Entity.

Something else on his MD: He ran 4 Fauna shaman and from what I saw in the round vs Chantress they were doing great. Some sick stuff with quirrion happened ;).

I dont have access to the premium decklist either but I think the things I said above will give you a clear view on what his list was like.

Hope to have informed you :). I am still currently switching between oldschool Chord + Entity lists and the Wish list. Both have been performing well :) Ill take the deck to a big tournament next month so Ill test alot more =).

I currently use the following sb:
4 Leyline
4 Thorn
1 Emrakul
1 Masticore
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Wasteland (For glacial chasm/tabernacle etc I prefer this over Terastodon)
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Ezuri Renegade, Leader (I like to be able to wish for Trample along side Warcaller MD)
1 Regal Force

My MD is the same as K2thej's exept I went -1 Archdruid +1 Viridian Shaman to have a better chance vs Affinity and Stax and such with Shaman + Symbiote shenanigans.

Lemme know what you think!

~Maarten

[Lillinux]

I suppose Black is in not only fo Buried Alive, cause there is Intuition that can do the same effect at istant speed and better!!
Probably he use black also in side

[catmint]

Here the content from the article (link) I posted above. As I said I think it is a draft (without SB) and not a list of a tournament

Elves
A Legacy deck, by C.Santiago
1st place at a Magic Online Daily Event tournament in Magic Online on 2011-02-27

Maindeck:

Creatures
2 Birchlore Rangers
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Fauna Shaman
1 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
3 Vengevine
4 Wirewood Symbiote

Instants
2 Summoner's Pact

Legendary Creatures
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn


Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
5 Forest

Lands
3 Bayou
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs

Legendary Lands
2 Gaea's Cradle
Sideboard:

1 Essence Warden
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Glowrider
2 Viridian Shaman
3 Krosan Grip
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Progenitus
1 Duress
3 Natural Order
1 Thoughtseize


This Elf deck is cool because it's more Matt Nass/Wrapter-style than the other, scatterbrained MTGO lists. I like Thoughtseize but not sure if cutting Intuition and leaving in Vengevines is correct. Mirror Entity seems much better than Emrakul unless you're specifically trying to hate out Painter. Naturally drawing that guy or even tutoring for it with Fauna Shaman seems pretty insane when you have Gaea's Cradle in your deck.

I would clean up the list and play something like this:

Elves
Featured by Gerry Thompson on 2011-02-27 (Legacy)
As written about in http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/21196.html
Print this deck!
Maindeck:

Creatures
1 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
3 Llanowar Elves
1 Mirror Entity
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote

Instants
1 Crop Rotation


Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
1 Forest

Lands
3 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

Legendary Lands
2 Gaea's Cradle

Sideboard options:

Mindbreak Trap

Krosan Grip/Reverent Silence

Vengevine

Intuition (with a mana base change naturally)

Burrenton Forge-Tender (maybe one maindeck)

Natural Order/Progenitus

Venser, Shaper Savant

Crop Rotation seems better than the third Cradle by a large margin. The Llanowar Elves and clones work particularly well with Quirion Ranger, so I don't know why you'd skimp on those effects.

[1maarten1]

I suppose Black is in not only fo Buried Alive, cause there is Intuition that can do the same effect at istant speed and better!!
Probably he use black also in side

Sorry I forgot something! Burried alives and Vengevines were in the side, alongside with Thoughtseize/duress!

[InResponseForceOfWill]

Has anyone here tested Joraga Treespeaker? Might be slow off the bat, but after it gets the lvl counter... I dunno, maybe my newb is showing.

I searched the thread for "treespeaker" and yielded zero results.

[Lillinux]

Creatures
1 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Fauna Shaman
3 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
3 Llanowar Elves
1 Mirror Entity
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote

Instants
1 Crop Rotation


Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Thoughtseize

Basic Lands
1 Forest

Lands
3 Bayou
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath

Legendary Lands
2 Gaea's Cradle

It's 58 cards. I suppose there is also 2 Birchlore Rangers (white mana it's very rare for mirror entity combo).
I will try this list whit - 1 bayou + 1 tropical .
In SB 2 intuition e 3 vengevine.

[Koby]

Has anyone here tested Joraga Treespeaker? Might be slow off the bat, but after it gets the lvl counter... I dunno, maybe my newb is showing.

I searched the thread for "treespeaker" and yielded zero results.

Treespeaker is much slower than traditional mana elf. You will have to invest 3 mana before you can tap for 2. I'd rather spend 1 and get 1 in return. Additionally, getting the 2nd mana is sometimes an issue, and results in having a blank 1/1 that does nothing. Note that having removal in response to level up ability is much much worse as you invest 3 mana and get 0 in return. For this reason, Treespeaker is not included or utilized.

<list>

It's 58 cards. I suppose there is also 2 Birchlore Rangers (white mana it's very rare for mirror entity combo).
I will try this list whit - 1 bayou + 1 tropical .
In SB 2 intuition e 3 vengevine.

I would recommend upping Llanowar slot to 7 total, as he is the best first play. The last slot, I would recommend testing out Masked Admirers to work with Fauna Shaman as a green-"Squee" effect. It helps against control matchups, and even helps you grind out against aggro decks (recurring blocker/cycler). In post-SB games, it also works well with Intuition/Buried Alive.