Least fun deck to play against?

[wcm8]

I'd like to give a swift kick in the nuts to whoever designed the Eldrazi. They should have at least given them the Phage clause to avoid show and tell/oath of Druids nonsense.

[Sims]

I'd like to give a swift kick in the nuts to whoever designed the Eldrazi. They should have at least given them the Phage clause to avoid show and tell/oath of Druids nonsense.

Then they wouldn't have sold anywhere near as much Rise of the Eldrazi.

[wcm8]

Vengevine was the real chase card there, and eternal players don't crack packs trying to get something specific. Plus Emrakul was the promo card.

[Sims]

Vengevine was the real chase card there, and eternal players don't crack packs trying to get something specific. Plus Emrakul was the promo card.

Keep in mind who the primary pack cracking demographic is... typically not tournament players unless the packs are prizes and we're bored. We know what the internet is. It's fun to crack packs sometimes, but most of the people who do it are the casual crowd and the younger type 2 players who aren't as hip to why Jace keeps beating their face and costs 70-90 dollars.

Vengevine may have been the primary chase rare, but i'd wager mostpeople who are cracking Rise packs were doing it more for Eldrazi Titans to blow their friends out in casual games when their deck finally ramped up to that 15 mana mark. Who wants to play a shitty 4/3 for 4 with haste that you have to jump through hoops to get back when you can just play a bunch of elves and get a 15/15 practically indestructable flyer that gives you timewalk AND blows up your opponents board every swing?

Lets face it... more of the pack buying market was looking for the Eldrazi and Gideons than they were Vengevines or Kargan Dragonlords.


Edit for on-topicness:

I personally at least like to make a game out of it. I'll play and enjoy pretty much every match if i have an out or at least can make you fight for what should be an easy win. However when I'm playing something and my opponent assembles turn 1 top, turn 2 balance, and then has moat/jace online turn 4 while i can't resolve a spell? That's obnoxious. Dredge when they get the god-hand of resolve turn 1 discard outlet, pitch a dredger, dredge nuts, breakthrough and dredge more nuts, and have the game over turn 2/3 with nothing i can do about it? that's obnoxious. My opponent shits out a turn 1 City/Tomb + Petal + SNT Emrakul onto the table with force backup for my force? Shit sucks.

I like combo, control, etc... shit I was a Prison player for the longest time... I just have gotten to the point that I hate not being able to actually play magic. Shit even when tendrils has a turn 2/3 hand i can at least interact with them and make them actually outplay me instead of just going "oh you're playing deck xx? turn 1 double rit AdN,win?"

[trivial_matters]

I don't like playing against Enchantress (with Zoo). It's very frustrating and the games tend to be long, drawn-out affairs. Decks like Stax are probably second, but they're not nearly as bad.

[Rock Lee]

I don't like playing against Enchantress (with Zoo). It's very frustrating and the games tend to be long, drawn-out affairs. Decks like Stax are probably second, but they're not nearly as bad.

I love playing against Enchantress (with Turbo-Drazi) its an impossible matchup for them. =D All is Dust hits all their mana, their draw, and their kill no matter how out of control it is.

[Meekrab]

Do you think it's right to cheat a card that essentially undoes all your turns and your board in one shot? i think it's not.
Do you think it's right to cheat it at the cost of 3? I think it' s not. Especially in a format where you can do it on turn 2 protected (really, staistically it is not that difficult).

Do you think it's legitimate to make idiots win tournaments? When did Legacy stop requiring skill and turning into Vintage-style shit?

If you think Vintage doesn't require play skill, or that piloting a Show and Tell deck through a large tournament is easy enough that 'idiots' can do it, you're probably a really really bad magic player and should work on that rather than spouting nonsense.

[ivanpei]

If you think Vintage doesn't require play skill, or that piloting a Show and Tell deck through a large tournament is easy enough that 'idiots' can do it, you're probably a really really bad magic player and should work on that rather than spouting nonsense.

I don't think he means that Vintage does not require skill, it's more of how Vintage is very draw Dependant. I mean if half my hand is Recall, Lotus, Yawg's Will, chances are I'm winning that game. It's the same for Show and Tell. It is very easy to get a broken hand and win without any play skill. When people ask me what deck should they play against an aggro field without much headache, I say Show and Tell-Natural Order or Necrotic Ooze- Show And Tell.

Why? It's a 2 card combo, strong, doesn't take much brains and shits on aggro and most midrange. I mean the scourge of combo decks, counterbalance is WEAK to show and tell strategies. Spell Snare doesn't hurt show and tell too. It's ridiculous. But truthfully though, the guy who got second's DDay-Show deck is suboptimal. Not knowing hideaway can be stifled is also proof that he is not a very good player. His list plays junk like Solitary confinement, and 3 stifles which are not neccessary. He also plays way too many lands and insufficient acceleration.

[Meekrab]

Why? It's a 2 card combo, strong, doesn't take much brains and shits on aggro and most midrange. I mean the scourge of combo decks, counterbalance is WEAK to show and tell strategies. Spell Snare doesn't hurt show and tell too. It's ridiculous.

Okay, but zoo and merfolk and even midrange CB decks are fundamentally non-broken strategies. This is an eternal format, Zoo shouldn't be good. Take your swinging with 3/3s back to Extended, I'd like to play real decks.

[ivanpei]

Agreed, I play legacy because it's broken and I despise aggro. But having someone drop NO/Show into a giant fattie is pretty anticlimatic. At least getting Tendrils- out from my opponent feels less like a dump down my throat because he had to work for it and play 10 + spells, knowing he could fuck up anytime and punt it. But NO/Show and tell, what's the worse that can happen? Oops, I forgot to attack?

[Meekrab]

So Oath of Druids + Orchard isn't a legit strategy in Vintage?

[obituary 95]

i really hate playing against zoo in legacy. it always goes like this

turn 1 play undercosted 3/3
turn 2 play undercosted 5/6
turn 3 play some other undercoasted fatty.
turn 4 burn me out

wow thats a really "intreasting" game of magic

[Meekrab]

i really hate playing against zoo in legacy. it always goes like this

turn 1 play undercosted 3/3
turn 2 play undercosted 5/6
turn 3 play some other undercoasted fatty.
turn 4 burn me out

wow thats a really "intreasting" game of magic

So you play decks that are even worse than Zoo? Welcome to the Source!

[Piceli89]

If you think Vintage doesn't require play skill, or that piloting a Show and Tell deck through a large tournament is easy enough that 'idiots' can do it, you're probably a really really bad magic player and should work on that rather than spouting nonsense.

..And you should avoid spouting nonsense on other people if you don't understand what they're actually trying to tell and flatten it on what's your own way to interpret those words.
God bless Ivanpei, who has apparently caught perfectly the feeling you get when a dumb asshole shits on you by cheating a fattie into play with a sorcery, and that's all he needs to win because they're uberprotected, obese (2 swings=win=1-2 turns) and/or they say "tap: one-sided Pernicious Deed hitting lands, too".

[Sims]

..And you should avoid spouting nonsense on other people if you don't understand what they're actually trying to tell and flatten it on what's your own way to interpret those words.
God bless Ivanpei, who has apparently caught perfectly the feeling you get when a dumb asshole shits on you by cheating a fattie into play with a sorcery, and that's all he needs to win because they're uberprotected, obese (2 swings=win=1-2 turns) and/or they say "tap: one-sided Pernicious Deed hitting lands, too".

Guess you really must hate it when someone Tinkers out a robot in Vintage.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

First, those of you that bash Vintage for being so random and draw-dependant probably don't play the format. There are a million ways to lose with a hand that contains Lotus, Ancestral and Will, the easiest of which is getting Duressed, which ends with you having your best card in the yard and hoping you can win by leveraging the three cards Ancestral gives you alone. Sure, Vintage-decks do ridiculous stuff, but they all do. Almost everything one deck can draw, the other can answer as long as you know how to mulligan. Especially, because Vintage has so much acceleration and tutoring, answer-cards suddenly become very strong because the actual number of real bombs is comparatively low while you're easily able to find your answers due to your own brokenness.

That's where the problem comes in for Legacy: All the acceleration you can play is only good in "aggressive" decks (using the term aggressive losely): Aggro and Combo. Control-decks simply don't have the necessary acceleration or cheap draw-power to do something similarly ridiculous, meaning that even though the combos themselves are weaker (S&T->Emmi vs Oath, Natural Order vs Tinker, Painter/Stone vs Vault/Key, etc) the actual things you have to compete with are also much weaker, resulting in a bigger advantage for things like S&T. Now that doesn't mean Control suddenly loses to combo all the time, it does mean that a control-deck perfectly set up to beat the combo-shenanigans will be missing the raw power a Vintage-control deck would have to still curbstomb aggro. This means a few things: a) as long as people play so much aggro, Control can't really focus on combo and decks like S&T or ANT will profit - this is basically a rock, paper, scissors metagame that so many people consider the holy grail of Magic (I disagree, but whatever). b) If true Vintage-style combo-control ever becomes possible and widely adopted, aggro will be pushed out of the metagame, something I personally would enjoy very much but that I think a lot of Legacy-players won't be too happy with. c) If aggro ever becomes less relevant/control gets to be broken, too, S&T->Emrakul style combo will rapidly disappear because what they do simply isn't consistently broken enough when most decks in the format can goldfish by turn 4 while defending themselves. That's far removed from where we are at the moment, though.
Aggro losing to combo-shenenigans shouldn't really surprise anybody any more, this has been the case in Eternal-formats from the dawn of time.

As to the thread, while personally I just despise playing against Zoo, decks with Waste-Loam-lock and Fish, one of the most annoying decks to play against has to be a personal favorite of mine: SpiralTide. When something like ANT goes off, it takes another two minutes for the game to end. When Spiral Tide goes off you usually have time for a smoke and a bathroom break before you need to come back to see if you're dead yet. Only you can't because the game is still going on. At the moment there's the novelty value of watching your opponent do weird things but I suspect most of my opponents are going to be pissed of about that once they're used to the deck.

[ScatmanX]

As to the thread, while personally I just despise playing against Zoo, decks with Waste-Loam-lock and Fish, one of the most annoying decks to play against has to be a personal favorite of mine: SpiralTide. When something like ANT goes off, it takes another two minutes for the game to end. When Spiral Tide goes off you usually have time for a smoke and a bathroom break before you need to come back to see if you're dead yet. Only you can't because the game is still going on. At the moment there's the novelty value of watching your opponent do weird things but I suspect most of my opponents are going to be pissed of about that once they're used to the deck.

People HATE playing against Spiral Tide. Not only is a combo deck, but is a combo deck that forces them to shuffle their library, cut your deck, then they have to wait forever. My last tournament there were 2 players that simply scooped after I showed them an Emrakul from my hand post-spiral. And I didn't even had the resources to cast him at the time...

[maurobad2k4]

I really hate playing against Enchantress. That's too much boring...

[Shimi]

I really hate playing against Enchantress. That's too much boring...

I really love seeing your playing against Enchantress. That's too much fun!!!

On topic I hate playing against Dredge... think don't need to say why.

[woremak]

I usually just hate playing the mirror.