Just wondering - where has the discussion about Scryb Ranger gone? Has Scryb largely been replaced by Goyf in terms of cmc? Lists running Harrier/Mom/KotR would obviously benefit most, but he is still a great creature that allows lots of fun things.
Lavamancers are a good target, and I certainly choose them at times. But I have three Grunts in the main and the fourth in the SB. They do a decent job of limiting the effectiveness of Lavamancers. Moreover, we have Mothers of Runes. If she comes out first she can pretty much shut down a Lavamancer until I can deal with it in some other way. Ah, sometimes it works out that way and sometimes nothing works. But the point is that there really is no other way to deal with Pridemages, while Lavamancers can be got around.Originally Posted by Uncoordinated
EDIT: I think that Scryb Ranger reeks of the Danger of Cool Things.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I've tested Scryb Ranger in my Wg build, in the place of Flickerwisp, as they serve a similar purpose and Flickerwisp's WW cost is a little hard to get sometimes. It has some very interesting uses, like enabling mom and mangara to be used twice per turn. Many times I find Mangara to be too slow, and Scryb Ranger fixes it somehow.
Also, it is a game-winner versus merfolk, and good at blocking Rhox War Monks. The problem is that it is lackluster in many matches, like Zoo and Goblins.
I believe it deserves some slots, depending on your meta.
Last edited by lebarion; 02-23-2011 at 11:34 AM.
# The Bizarro Super Powers Team
I've done a lot of testing and Leonin Arbiter as well as Phyrexian Revoker prove to amazing inclusions to the deck. I don't think Mirran Crusader is good enough for legacy, even if you are doing a mono white version like I run. There are already planty of cards that require 3 mana and with the non mono white builds out there the double white could be problematic at times and vials don't show up at the begining of every game.
Cockatrice: EMFry
Hello,
Im a long time lurker is DT threads but never posted since i don't have a playsets of karakas now i've gotten i wanted to build a Wg taxes. Here is my initial deck build. It doesn't have tricks or shenanigans as compared to mono w DT.
Comments and suggestions are welcome, thank you in advance.
Lands [21]
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Plains
2 Karakas
4 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Flooded Strand
1 Temple Garden
Creatures [28]
3 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Mangara of Corondor
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells [11]
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Sideboard Choices
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Cataclysm
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Aura of Silence
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ghostly Prison
2 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
Last edited by _erbs_; 03-04-2011 at 06:43 AM.
I used 3 Mirran Crusaders tonight in the slot that was previously 3 Kitchen Finks tonight. Must say, I LOVED using him. Nobody really gave a damn when he hit the field, until Crusader started coming for their face. Speaking of, split 1st for the 2nd week in a row, which makes me 4 of 5 in past weeks.
Kitchen Finks had his bright side on Zoo MU, Mirran Crusader is still poor against them (even lavamancer can kill it..).
I testing new side against Zoo
I put in:
3 Path to Exile
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
I'm testing Path's because I'm playing with Arbiters, also good Zoo pilot will fetch for basics (3 basics so all of them basics).
So Finks is better because of one matchup? If I was worried about Lavamancers I would not be playing a deck with: Flickerwisp, Mangara, Mom, and all the other goodies that die to shock.
Are you running Wastelands and Ports? If so, putting mana denial alongside cards that give them lands seems like a really bad choice.
I played with Wasteland and Ghostly Quarter, remember that gives them land is rather not always, every good Zoo pilot facing Wastelands goes to basics, then after fetching all of them u have clear way. PtE is for fatties which are quite problematic (Goyfs/KotR). I can see that Mirrian Crusader is good on in one MU U/b/g Thresh nothing more.. I used 2 Terravores in this slot they're much better, they always bigger than opponent KotR's and have tremple so in mirror they shines bacuase even protection don't save u.
Btw Finks also helps in Burn/Boros MU which isn't so good.
A Zoo pilot who fetches basics as a rule is not a good one. When they do that I tap their green with Ports
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
Mirran crusader is good but from my experience he is a win more card. Once again though he is good but I do not know if he has a real place in mono D&T.
I played a W/g version last night at our weekly tournament. 13 players.
Lands - 22
4 Plains
1 Forest
4 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures - 26
4 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mangara of Corondor
2 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
Artifacts - 6
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Instants - 4
4 Swords to Plowshares
Enchantments - 2
2 Sylvan Library
Sideboard
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Krosan Grip
3 Path to Exile
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Cataclysm (last minute addition since I had 2 open spots and didn't know what to add.)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Faerie Macabre
Round 1 vs. Junk/Rock (Budget version, no Goyfs)
Main thing worth note was game 2 where he only had a Swamp and a Top out after I Wasted one of his lands. I then Vial in a Revoker (naming Top) which shuts him out of the game.
1-0; 2-0
Round 2 vs. NO CounterTop
Game 1 we both mull, him to 5 and me to 4 keeping despite no land. I topdeck a land and eventually more from there and recover rather well. The main play worth noting was him having Counterbalance out and I cast a Mirran Crusader. He says it resolves then backtracks to reveal for Counterbalance which reveals a Trygon. If it wasn't a casual event I wouldn't have let him take it back. I end up dying to a Noble Hierarch when I made an error and attacked with my Knight with SoLaS on it which was chump blocked.
Game 2 the deck does what it does best and I have removal for all his threats til I kill him.
Game 3 was back and forth putting us both in top deck mode near the end. He gets mana flooded and I eventually get rid of his final creature and take the round shortly after. He never drew a Natural Order in any of the games.
2-0; 4-1
Round 3 vs. Deadguy Ale
Game 1 he was stuck on 2 Swamps for most of the game. He slowly kills himself with Bitterblossom while I speed it up with Avenger with SoLaS.
Game 2 he leads with a Plains and a turn 2 Scrubland and Bitterblossom. I Waste the Scrubland on my turn and he never draws another black source from there. SoLaS comes through again as does Revoker naming SoLaS which had had from Stoneforge.
3-0; 6-1
Round 4 vs. R/g Goblins
Intentional Draw to split 1st & 2nd. He didn't want to at first which I would have been fine with, but then I think he realized there was no reason not to since the prize difference was only +/-$5 from the split amount. We played it out anyways just to see.
3-0-1
Game 1 I made a play mistake with Flickerwisp. He played Tin Street Hooligan and I Vialed in Wisp to bounce my Vial in response to it being targeted instead of in response to it being cast which would have made him kill his own Vial. Ringleader gives him the card advantage and win.
Game 2 I have more removal now and SoFaI pretty much ends it for him.
Game 3 was more removal and Revoker locking out his Incinerators. We both end up in topdeck mode, but I have Library and take a hit for 4 twice to end the game.
Individual card thoughts:
Mirran Crusader - I agree with others that its a win-more card. The times I had it in play it was just a target and never had any effect other than them wasting a removal spell on it. I'll be cutting these.
Sylvan Library - Was great every time I had it as was to be expected. Kinda surprised I don't see it more often in the W/g builds.
Knight of the Reliquary - I'm torn between cutting these completely or cutting just 1. With 3 Karakas and Sylvan, I don't really see myself needing the land ability. And without evasion he just gets blocked by random crap. This is the main reason I went with Avenger over Goyf. If I cut all 4 of these, it'll be for Goyfs.
Flickerwisp - I like the 3/1 Flying body for a beater but the flicker ability never really did much for me so I'll probably cut these as well. Scryb Ranger seems interesting as a replacement since it would let me use Mangara or MoR twice a turn but I think there are better options to use. Would Aven Mindcensor be worth considering.
I run a GW list aswell. I'd like to share my experience of those cards you mentioned.
• Library cantrips - i don't run any in my list maybe you could try sensei or mirri's guile as i think they are a much better choice over sylvan since you rarely use to take extra cards from sylvan.
• Kotr - i only run 3 bec of the following reasons:
a. not as big as other kotr's who runs tons of fetches so he would normally come out at 4/4 not bad.
b. if your opponent has lots of blockers his just a library filter or a way of fetching karakas or wasteland, etc.
c. needs a full turn to be effective.
• Flickerwisp - i dont run him bec i find his ability lack luster without an online vial set at 3. it can block anything.., without exalted triggers seems like a weak beater. At worse its a 2cc 3/1 flyer. But i run 4 serra avenger in its place.
• Mirran Sader - i run 2 of this, the right number for me is 3 more than it seems abit off. Its not a win more card for me its a card that will be dangerous later on if not dealt. Thats his role for me. his a decent blocker against zoo. When any equipment his the board and your opponent has no removal sader will wreak havoc once it get equipped on. For me if acts like a removal magnet is not bad as it could free up your other threats .
I am playing with Version B/W. I splash to black because de sidebord is very strong againg combos and I can use Bob in main deck doing more draws.
My list
Lands [21]
1 Swamp
5 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Scrublands
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
Creatures [26]
4 Dark Confidant (Bob)
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Serra Avenger
3 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Mirran Crusade
3 Mangara of Corondor
2 Perimeter Captain
Spells [13]
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Senseis Divining Top
Sideboard Choices
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod´s Crypt
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Null Rod
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Extirpate
2 Perish
3 Duress
I had a good performance against combos in second match and deck using green creatureas to beat. Mirran cruzader is fantastic when equiped and can kill a opponent in 2 rounds. This creature so block Goyf, Relicary, dont kill firespot (pro green) and with mother of runes in game dont die.
I trying improve sideboard and would like sugestions and coments.
Thanks
Okay ... Maybe I will try him again. I got 3rd at the Jupiter games tourney back in January (22 2011) with this list
Land 22
4x savannah
4x windswept heath
2x horizon canopy
2x plains
1x flagstones of trokair
1x forest
4x wasteland
Creatures 27
4x mother of runes
4x tarmogoyf
4x qasali pridemade
3x sotneforge mystic
2x jotun grunt
3x gaddock teeg
3x mangara of corondor
4x knight of the reliquary
Spells 11
4x swords to plowshares
4x aether vial
1x umezawas jitte
1x Sword of fire and ice
1x sword of light and shadow
SB
3x krosan grip
3x burrenton-forge tender
3x orims chant
3x ethersworn canonist
2x pithing needle
1x jotun grunt
I am thinking if I play this deck again I will add the crusader because I think there will be even more green being played because of green sun zenith. But we will see I might just play the white D&T instead if testing is not successful with mirran sader.
Hello
our build is almost identical, whats the problem you have encountered in your build ?
Nothing is really wrong with the build I have been playing it for a long time now but I did not really play it in tournaments because survival was in the meta. Now that its gone this deck is great. I just want to explore other options. I mean the deck works and its great but could it be better?
There are some problems I have noticed though. Losing rishidian port is sort of a big problem. You have big creatures but sometimes you have a flood of lands and ports would be helpful in situations like those. But for the most part the deck gets there in terms of winning in my meta.
In your build, don't you find it hard to mix jotun, kotr and tarmo all together ? you don't run nobles and run 4 wastelands aren't you having a hard time coming up with colored mana, i know vial is there but there are times vial is too slow.
Your Mana Base looks slightly questionable. I personally feel that 3x Savannah is more than enough for the GW version of the deck. Additionally I think that Flagstones of Trokair while effective in the mono-white version of the deck, is fairly risky in the GW. This is especially true if you should for whatever reason come up against a Blood Moon oriented deck and have your 19 Non-Basic Lands turned against you. Also you forgot to list what I assume is your 4x Karakas? Personally I think one only needs 3x Karakas, especially if they are running Knight's of the Reliquary in the deck.
I would personally replace the Jotun Grunts with Serra Avengers, and maybe replace 2 other cards with Serra Avengers (the two you replace is 100% up to you though). Your main deck non-creature spells look about right however.
In your sideboard, you have 6 cards designated for the purpose of combating Combo decks. Are they really that big a threat in your meta? Also, have you considered an Enlightened Tutor or Worldly Tutor Sideboard build?
"He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."
Yeah your right. I ran 3 karakas. After the tourney I took out flagstones and put in another plains upping the plains to 4. Also I changed my list so it runs 4x serra avenger now. I also have changed my board since. Its like you read my mind. I took out grunt. He was only good in situations where I did not have tarmogoyf and my opponent had tarmogoyf. So yeah. I have tried the enlightened board in the past but did not like it. I am not denying that its not good but I personally chose not to use it.
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