[Deck] Goblins

[Lejay]

Hoping it won't look like a spam about my take on legacy goblins, but since some people have been talking about cabal therapy and stingscourger lately on the new thread I remind them they are synergistic, and that I advocated a lot playing both main deck on page 301 of the old thread.
Still working great for me but I've been playing a lot more doomsday storm lately.

[TossUsToLions]

Hoping it won't look like a spam about my take on legacy goblins, but since some people have been talking about cabal therapy and stingscourger lately on the new thread I remind them they are synergistic, and that I advocated a lot playing both main deck on page 301 of the old thread.
Still working great for me but I've been playing a lot more doomsday storm lately.

Honestly, I would love to play Cabal Therapy main, but it just isn't good enough for the first few turns of game 1, until you can figure out exactly what your opponent is playing. So i just bring it in against almost every non-aggro deck for games 2/3. Adding 4 more powerful one-drops to the deck after sideboarding makes the deck more consistent. It is awesome to play it t1 calling something safe (like FOW, Plague, or Firespout), then play a MWM t2 and flashback the Therapy (naming anything that you saw the turn before).

[anotherday]

Honestly, I would love to play Cabal Therapy main, but it just isn't good enough for the first few turns of game 1, until you can figure out exactly what your opponent is playing. So i just bring it in against almost every non-aggro deck for games 2/3. Adding 4 more powerful one-drops to the deck after sideboarding makes the deck more consistent. It is awesome to play it t1 calling something safe (like FOW, Plague, or Firespout), then play a MWM t2 and flashback the Therapy (naming anything that you saw the turn before).

You fan also bounce a threat with Stingscourger, and then flashback Therapy naming said threat. Kinda stalls tempo for both players in the early game, but it can be back breaking later on.

[GoboLord]

I've been playing with 2 Chrome Moxen in the ADHD build for a while now. I really like it, although the opinions within our team are divided about it. But it's not only good for a turbo-boost start, I've also had situations where I just kept it on hand because I never wanted or needed to pitch a Goblin to it, but then I threw down a Ringleader wich netted a bunch of Goblins. Then I could play the Mox for an extra Piledriver FTW. I like it.

Check out this vid, it's by a teammate of mine who plays the deck for the first time on MTGO daily. Despite a few obvious playfails, it's a very informative video I think.

Team ADHD's Goblins in a MTGO Legacy Daily

Yeah, that's actually where I got the list from: i saw it on Matthias' vid on BeNeLegacy (as I wrote when I introduced the list here).
Although the video is not very helpful for learning (he really doesn't tell much about the Chrome Moxes) it is very helpful to examplify how Chrome Mox work out in this deck (just like you said: it's not only tempo boost, but after a Ringleader they become useful even if you don't drop them in the first few turns)

[anotherday]

I also like how the 2 Chrome Moxes effectively ups your potential turn 1 plays from 8 (4 Lackey, 4 Vial) to 10, a small increase, but substantial.

Would 4 Chrome Moxes be overkill? Maybe something like:
4 Wasteland
4 Chrome Mox
14 Mountain

I'm going 18 red sources to support 4 Instigators MD, and cutting the land count from 24 to 22 because of more "put... from your hand onto the battlefield" triggers. Port gets the boot because the build is geared to be more aggro. It might just be me but 2 Moxes doesn't seem like enough to be consistent, and 4 seems like too many; perhaps 3 is optimal? I'd test the numbers myself but I usually only play once a month. I suppose I can always goldfish :/

[GoboLord]

I also like how the 2 Chrome Moxes effectively ups your potential turn 1 plays from 8 (4 Lackey, 4 Vial) to 10, a small increase, but substantial.

Would 4 Chrome Moxes be overkill? Maybe something like:
4 Wasteland
4 Chrome Mox
14 Mountain

I'm going 18 red sources to support 4 Instigators MD, and cutting the land count from 24 to 22 because of more "put... from your hand onto the battlefield" triggers. Port gets the boot because the build is geared to be more aggro. It might just be me but 2 Moxes doesn't seem like enough to be consistent, and 4 seems like too many; perhaps 3 is optimal? I'd test the numbers myself but I usually only play once a month. I suppose I can always goldfish :/

I didn't test with 3 or 4 Chrome Moxes, but I don't think it's a good idea.

(1) If you side Pyrokinesis you can't afford both: Mox AND Kinesis (since this might give away too much of your CA-engine). That's why I usually side out Chrome Moxes when I want to play Kinesis. With 3 or 4 CMs you might want to board all of them out which leaves you with only 18 manasources postboard.

(2) Chrome Mox is good if you draw 1 copy per game. Later in games you might find it very disturbing to topdeck lands which swallow Goblins). Usually 1 Mox per game isn't disturbing because you usually have 1 Goblin (but not much more) per game that you don't necessarily need and that stays on your hand for several turns. Too many CMs might demand Goblins that you do need in the course of the game.

Still, we have to test this out. Maybe Skeggi can tell us something about it? How did you decide on running 2 CMs and not 1, 3 or 4?

[Ace/Homebrew]

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
14 Mountain

26 Core

4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Stingscourger
2 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Siege-Gang Commander

Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mogg War Marshal

Back from my first Legacy event! Only change from my above list was I put Tinkerer in the sideboard (removing a Mogg War Marshal) and replaced it with a 3rd copy of Goblin Chieftain.

Event had 38 people. I went 3 and 3 =/

R1 - Stiflenaught. Won 2-1
Got lucky game 3 cause he was at 7 life and his Bob turned a FoW.

R2 - Affinity. Lost 1-2
Probably should have won this match. This was the Tezz AoB version. Lost the first game cause he couldn't get a 4th copy of Tezz for his deck and used Tempered Steel instead. I was looking at taking 7 damage his next turn with plenty of life so I tapped all my guys. He played Tempered Steel and his 1/1's became 3/3's and it was exactly enough...

R3 - Fish. Lost 1-2
Lost game 2 cause he boarded in Jitte. Misplayed Gempalm (from lack of experience) and G2 went downhill from there. G3 was more Jitte and a round loss...

R4 - Dragon Stompy. Won 2-1
G2 I lost cause of Cave In. Never seen that card before. Cave In almost lost me G3 but Ringleader filled my hand!

R5 - Belcher Combo. Won 2-1
He got 10 gobs turn 1. Lackey, go. He swings for 10. I connect with Lackey and throw SGC out. He keeps swinging out and I keep connecting with Lackey and putting SCG out (happened 3 times!!). I win from his attacking mistakes.
G2 he wins before I get a turn.
G3 I mull to 5 looking for CotV. He mulls to 5 as well. CotV keeps him from going off. I waste his bayou and keep porting his Tiaga. Eventually I win.

R6 - Goblins. Lost 1-2
He won G3 after drawing a hand with 3 Pyrokinesis. Wah wah...

Fun time. Learned a lot.

[jrw1985]

I know what WotC can get me for my birthday- a Qasali Pridemage goblin equivalent that can be sacked to blast an artifact. That would be so beautiful, and it would fit with the color and tribal themes. Just a 2/2 gobbo for RR that had "1, Sacrifice: Destroy target artifact". That's all I'm asking for.

And if they really want WotC can give it battle cry too. A Goblin Wardriver with the sac ability. My dream come true.

[AlmostGrown]

Can I have some suggestions for good sideboard cards vs combo? I find that combo is usually my hardest matchup. (combo can be anything from ANT or Belcher to Sneaky Show and in some extreme cases NO Show).

My current Deck:
//Lands 21
5 Snow-Covered Mountains
3 Badlands
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Auntie's Hovel

//Core 25
-1 Piledriver

//Other 14
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Stingscourger
2 Warren Wierding
2 Goblin Chieftain

SB:
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Goblin King
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Perish
1 Boggart Shenanigans (for fighting E. Plague)

Sneaky Show I think I have a 50/50 MU against. If they Show and Tell I try to either show a Matron or a Stingscourger. Games 2 & 3 I get therapy and name Sneak Attack as my first option. If they already cast that, then I name Emrakul and from there it depends on what I've seen.

[jrw1985]

Tourny Report!

I played in a ~60 man tourny yesterday with Rb goblins. Here's the details-

61 Cards
Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
2 Stingscourger
1 Warren Instigator

Tribal Sorceries
2 Warren Weirding

Basic Lands
6 Mountain
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Rishadan Port
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Nature's Ruin
1 Perish
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Extirpate
1 Shattering Spree
2 Pulverize
1 Tuktuk Scrapper

I changed up my deck from earlier this week in the following ways-
MD -1 Instigator +1 Stingscourger
SB -1 Perish -1 Pyrokinesis +1 Extirpate +1 Pulverize

Once again, I hoped to dodge the Storm MU, and came loaded for green fatties, affinity, and GY recursion. So naturally my first round was-

R1 TES
G1 On the play, I mountian, lackey, go. He fetches and Ponders. My opponent totally tilted his hand as he drew his 7, so I saw his Gemstone Mine and Orim's Chant and knew he was on TES. When I attacked with Lackey T2 I dropped in a Matron for Piledriver which I played, hoping to get a T3 to start putting real damage on. I didn't.
G2 Had no hate and had to mull, and my opponent went off fairly quickly.
0-1
0-2

Bad start

R2 GU homebrew
G1 Got locked out by maindeck Back to Basics!
G2 Perish ftw!
G3 He dropped an early Standstill when my board was empty and he had no clock on. I played land after land, so did he. Finally when I had 8 Goblins in hand and about 10 lands in play I cracked the Standstill, played out a huge number of Goblins, and won the next turn. Weird game.
1-1
2-3

R3 BWG Rock (with Dark Depths/vampire Hexmage)
G1 I won
G2 He StP'd every damn Warchief I played. i finally established a board and he used KotR to fetch up Dark Depths with Hexmage in play, then attacked me with Merit Lange. Fortunately, because of the early Swords I was at 23 life, so survived the attack and killed him the following turn.
2-1
4-3

R4 Affinity
G1 Luckiest game ever. My only lands were Port and Wasteland, but I had 3 Vials. I played stuff. He played stuff. We both had a ton of creatures online but I had gotten more damage through. Then he landed 2 Cranial Plattings on 2 Ornithopeters and swung in for the win. i had 2 Vials at 2 and 2 Stingscourgers in hand. Luckiest game ever. On my turn I upper 2 vials to 3 and 1 to 5, played SGC, Matron, and Chieftain, then swung with everything for the win.
G2 My opponent mulled to 5. I won.
3-1
6-3

At this point I was really getting some momentum and felt that I had a good shot of making top 8. Just 2 rounds to go, and if I won the next I could probably draw in at 4-1-1.

R5 Merfolk
G1 I had 2 Gempalms and a Waste for his Mutavault, and I took this one down.
G2 I mulled to 5. Ouch. Lost.
G3 My 7 was 2 Lackeys, Piledriver, some other goblin and 3 lands. This is one of those hands that looks amazing, so long as you topdeck decently. Unfortunately, my deck pooped out on me in the late game, and I drew no gas for about 5 turns while my opponent got Jitte and Sword of Something and Something online. At one point I had 2 Lackeys out and a Ringleader in hand. He had a mutavault and 1 card in hand. I decided to hard cast the Ringer instead on dropping him off a Lackey because life totals were getting low and I wanted to end it. Plus, with only 1 card in his hand I didn't expect a counter. It was a Hydroblast. Ringer was dead on the stack. This is the play that lost me the game.
3-2
7-5
Dropped

My style of play has always been to put as much pressure early as I can. This means I've been known to play into Daze, feeling that they lose a card and tempo while I just lose a card. I'll always try to cast Lackey on the play, unless I have a great hand for ramping Vial. Merfolk seems to be the 1 MU where my usual approach stumbles. Is playing around Daze really that important? And is waiting til T2 to cast a 1 drop worth the tempo loss?

[lotriderm]

Tourny Report!

R5 Merfolk
G1 I had 2 Gempalms and a Waste for his Mutavault, and I took this one down.
G2 I mulled to 5. Ouch. Lost.
G3 My 7 was 2 Lackeys, Piledriver, some other goblin and 3 lands. This is one of those hands that looks amazing, so long as you topdeck decently. Unfortunately, my deck pooped out on me in the late game, and I drew no gas for about 5 turns while my opponent got Jitte and Sword of Something and Something online. At one point I had 2 Lackeys out and a Ringleader in hand. He had a mutavault and 1 card in hand. I decided to hard cast the Ringer instead on dropping him off a Lackey because life totals were getting low and I wanted to end it. Plus, with only 1 card in his hand I didn't expect a counter. It was a Hydroblast. Ringer was dead on the stack. This is the play that lost me the game.
3-2
7-5
Dropped

The last play didn't really matter since if you attacked with both Lackeys, he could have just blasted one and blocked the other.

When I play against Merfolk, I generally always play around Daze since the more threats I can have on board, the higher my chances are winning. A resolved Lackey forces them to leave one or two guys behind to block, so it gives you more time to get to the late game.

[TossUsToLions]

Can I have some suggestions for good sideboard cards vs combo? I find that combo is usually my hardest matchup. (combo can be anything from ANT or Belcher to Sneaky Show and in some extreme cases NO Show).

My current Deck:
//Lands 21
5 Snow-Covered Mountains
3 Badlands
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Auntie's Hovel

//Core 25
-1 Piledriver

//Other 14
4 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Stingscourger
2 Warren Wierding
2 Goblin Chieftain

SB:
1 Mindbreak Trap
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Goblin King
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Perish
1 Boggart Shenanigans (for fighting E. Plague)

Sneaky Show I think I have a 50/50 MU against. If they Show and Tell I try to either show a Matron or a Stingscourger. Games 2 & 3 I get therapy and name Sneak Attack as my first option. If they already cast that, then I name Emrakul and from there it depends on what I've seen.

I've tested a lot against Sneak and Show and the key cards here are Wastelands and Ports G1. Full sets of both of these cards really help a lot. After boarding, Cabal Therapy absolutely wrecks them. Show and Tell usually doesn't hurt us (Matron, Warren Weirding, Stingscourger, outrace them, etc), so I usually name Sneak Attack or Intuition, or occasionally Emrakul, if I'm going blind. Also beware of their post-board Firespouts. They don't have any answers to a resolved Lackey, so you'll have plenty of fodder to flashback the Therapies. Red Elemental Blast isn't bad to counter their Ponders, Brainstorms and Intuitions.

[ScatmanX]

The last play didn't really matter since if you attacked with both Lackeys, he could have just blasted one and blocked the other.

Yeah, but Ringleader would not be countered after the combat phase, and he would probably win from there.

[Caspid]

I've been playing with 2 Chrome Moxen in the ADHD build for a while now. I really like it, although the opinions within our team are divided about it. But it's not only good for a turbo-boost start, I've also had situations where I just kept it on hand because I never wanted or needed to pitch a Goblin to it, but then I threw down a Ringleader wich netted a bunch of Goblins. Then I could play the Mox for an extra Piledriver FTW. I like it.

Check out this vid, it's by a teammate of mine who plays the deck for the first time on MTGO daily. Despite a few obvious playfails, it's a very informative video I think.

Team ADHD's Goblins in a MTGO Legacy Daily

I enjoyed watching this, thanks. If anyone has more narrated matches, please post them!

I'm not entirely convinced about Chrome Mox. The times it's a dead draw seem to balance the rare explosive start you get, and running them almost necessitates running Warren Instigator, which in turn constrains your mana base. In the video above, Mox was great and he didn't have too many mana problems, but he also ran Hovels and didn't encounter Wastelands.

While Chrome Mox can get you those quick, decisive wins, it seems to more often make you wish it were a land. So it has the overall effect of decreasing the deck's consistency, which I'm not too certain about.

[jrw1985]

Yeah, but Ringleader would not be countered after the combat phase, and he would probably win from there.

Exactly. It would have made a huge difference.

[Skeggi]

Still, we have to test this out. Maybe Skeggi can tell us something about it? How did you decide on running 2 CMs and not 1, 3 or 4?

Well, it's actually a bit obvious. You don't want too many because when you go turn 1 Instigator, it's only good if you have extra Goblins in your hand to get into play. You just don't want a second Chrome Mox in your opening hand. Its generally a pretty bad topdeck too.

I'm not entirely convinced about Chrome Mox. The times it's a dead draw seem to balance the rare explosive start you get, and running them almost necessitates running Warren Instigator, which in turn constrains your mana base. In the video above, Mox was great and he didn't have too many mana problems, but he also ran Hovels and didn't encounter Wastelands.

I think you just pointed out another reason why Chrome Mox is good, especially in a build with so many nonbasic land: it's Wasteland proof.

But to be honest, as I said before, within the team we're not yet decided on what's best. Actually our most avid Goblin player says no to Chrome Mox and just plays 2 Mountains instead.

[MattiasNL]

Yeah, that's actually where I got the list from: i saw it on Matthias' vid on BeNeLegacy (as I wrote when I introduced the list here).
Although the video is not very helpful for learning (he really doesn't tell much about the Chrome Moxes) it is very helpful to examplify how Chrome Mox work out in this deck (just like you said: it's not only tempo boost, but after a Ringleader they become useful even if you don't drop them in the first few turns)

Nice to see you found my list useful :) I think playing a list without at least 2 chrome mox is not optimal since you need the speed in your bad matchups (storm, zoo). Turn 1 instigator nets a faily high turn 3 goldfish kill percentage. More then 2 moxen means you give up some consistency for more potential explosiveness, but drawing multiples is really bad so I stick with 2.

I only did one video report with goblins, as I think stormcombo is still a better deck, but I could do another one if people found it interesting and helpful.

Also good to see people are playing less mogg-awful marshall. It just doesn't do enough (especially without a full set of chieftains).

[Vandalize]

Nice to see you found my list useful :) I think playing a list without at least 2 chrome mox is not optimal since you need the speed in your bad matchups (storm, zoo). Turn 1 instigator nets a faily high turn 3 goldfish kill percentage. More then 2 moxen means you give up some consistency for more potential explosiveness, but drawing multiples is really bad so I stick with 2.

I only did one video report with goblins, as I think stormcombo is still a better deck, but I could do another one if people found it interesting and helpful.

Also good to see people are playing less mogg-awful marshall. It just doesn't do enough (especially without a full set of chieftains).

Hey Mattias! I'm playing your agressive list too, and it's pretty impressive... 2 Chrome Mox has been proven to be a very good choice... I've been able to land a T1 Lackey AND Vial, or double Vial in T1, which is simply overkill. But I've made some changes in sideboard, because I found MB Trap to be a little tarteged hate (I like CotV more).

But I don't agree with your hate for Mogg War Marshall... It's not a great card right now, but it has been very useful when Survival was dominating the format. Don't hate the card, it's a good card in the wrong moment.

[GoboLord]

I agree with Vanadlize:

MWM is a good card in the right list. MWM makes it easier to play very defensive and rely on the manadenial-route. Plus with 3-4 MWMs in MD it's nearly impossible to lose against Zoo (which isn't a bad MU at all!).
Same goes for Warren Instigator and Chrome Mox: both are good cards in the right list. WI is less usefull when you rely on manadenial (cause RR is very annoying with 7+ colorless sources). Chrome Mox isn't good in a defensive build (and aboslutely crap without WI) because it provides you with speed you don't need. Playing Chrome Mox with WI is really a bad idea because you suddenly lose half of you arguents for running it: enable fast starts and jump into T1 Instigators.
Those 12 slots + sideboard are absolutely dedicated to individual playingstyle. I guess this discussion comes down to:

Defensive playing style: no Chrome Moxes, maybe 23 Lands, 7-8 manadenial, Mogg War Marshall, 6+ removal
Aggressive playing style: 2 Chrome Moxes, 20 Lands, 4 Manadenial, Warren Instigator+ Chieftain

[Justin]

I had this on MWS.

Turn 1:
Him: Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell for Emrakul
Me: Badlands, Chrome Mox, Warren Weirding
Him: Player Lost