submerge is awesome vs those decks and the creatures you listed, you can submerge in response to the upkeep triggers of crusher or let him put 100 lands in his graveyard then just submerge.Originally Posted by bakofried
I wouldn't daze there unless I had vial and even then I'm not sure depending on my hand, it is like time walking yourself by losing a land drop. You can't do this vs zoo. When I play vs zoo, my ideal draw is kira turn 3 with vial at 2
Lands:
4x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
12x Island
Creatures:
2x Kira, Great Glass Spinner
3x Merfolk Sovereign
4x Merrow Reejerey
4x Coralhelm Commander
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Cursecatcher
Spells:
4x Aether Vial
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Spell Pierce
Sideboard:
3x Submerge
3x Echoing Truth
3x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Null Rod
3x Relic of Progenitus
So, with my proposed main and side taken into account, here is what I would board in against the various flavors of Zoo:
-4 Force of Will
-4 Daze
-1 Coralhelm Commander
+3 Submerge
+3 Umezawa's Jitte
+3 Relic of Progenitus
I would board out Force of Will because, well, card disadvantage seems poor in this MU. Daze seems weak after Game 1; playing around it on their part leaves me with crappy cards. I would keep in Pierce because it can protect my blue dudes while not sacrificing tempo or cards (on FoW's scale, that is). Submerge comes in as conditional removal, which several of you have advocated. Jitte comes in because it can stabilize me if I get a good swing or two in. Finally, Relic comes in to keep 'Goyf, KotR, and Grim Lavamancer FAR AWAY FROM ME. Anyway, tell me what you think; I need any tips I can get on this deck.
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Also, I need sideboarding tips for Tez Affinity(I would bring in 3 Null Rod, 3 Echoing Truth), Team America(no clue), and the mirror(Jitte?).
Ugh. Hardly any blue for me at the open; I guess others had different luck. Ran into Tez Affinity, Big Zoo (twice), some sort of Landstill variant tweaked to crush 'Folk, and Belcher. Whomped on Belcher, but Landstill beat me (I probably could have played to a 1-0 finish there, but A.) I didn't think to, and B.) with 16 minutes left it seemed like a dick move). Affinity, the deck just shit on my face, both games. And Big Zoo either drew into or fetched basics both games; it was kind of ridiculous. Anyway, other merfolk players did better than me, so I guess I took the shots for them. Maybe next time.
Tough breaks dude, you didn't land null rod vs affinity? I think Merfolk needs 3 kira to have any chance vs zoo. I def think the 3rd kira would be way better then the 3rd sovereign in your list. I ran the almost the same list with 3 kira and 3 muta with 13 islands. I know a lot of guys on here don't like it, but she is really so good.
I played in a local 25 man and got top 8, only losses were goblins in the swiss and big zoo with punishing fires in the top 8. I'll post more later, but I punted vs zoo and lost game 1 when I should have had it. Lorded g2 and then mana screwed game 3.
Hi guys,
I've been reading around the thread for a few weeks. I'm new to the deck and built the the following list:
Lands:
4x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
12x Island
Creatures:
2x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Merfolk Sovereign
4x Merrow Reejerey
4x Coralhelm Commander
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Cursecatcher
Spells:
4x Aether Vial
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Spell Pierce
Sideboard:
2x Submerge
3x Blue Elemental Blast
3x Propaganda
3x Hibernation
2x llawan, cephalid empress
2x Vedalken Shaclkes
I've replaced Kira with Jitte for the mean time since I cant find one right now. I've been testing against goblins, combo (doomsday/show n tell), zoo, suicide black and counter top. Combo and and countertop have been favorable matchups so far, while zoo and goblins have been terrible. Suicide black was also able to kick my deck's ass due to the abundat spot removal it had against me. I've been able to somewhat handle goblins with shackles and propaganda. Zoo on the other hand, had been almost impossible to win when they land a lavamancer on play. Jitte have been able to save me in some zoo matches. Haven't tested submerge tho as I've just recently got them, they were formerly Sower of Temptations. Any tips against rock/ junk? The meta in our place is abundant with rock type decks.
Thanks!
So I'm going to two large tournaments this weekend and plan on playing fish in both of them. I've played the deck some but would still love to find a good up to date primer. I'm mostly looking for a solid sideboard plan for each match up. I'm also trying to determine the best sb, I'm running Alex Bertoncini's list from a few weeks ago and my current sb looks like this:
2 Back to Basics
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Spell Pierce
3 Submerge
2 Llawan, Cephalid Sage
From what I have heard the meta is a bit of everything but I should be sure to prepare against moat. I'm wondering if a 1 of Echoing Truth deserves space somewhere in the 75. Thoughts?
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
You're seriously worried about Moat? You run four Wastelands, four Dazes, and four Force of Wills, and have Spell Pierce in board. And you're running Back to Basics, to help matters even more. Just don't let Moat hit the board. And you're liable to get paired against Moat once in a tournament on a bad day. So it's not like you're going to have to fend it off fifteen times.
If you're going to prepare for things your sideboard is weak against, find graveyard hate.
Also, to the rest of you, Sower of Temptation is nectar of the gods. I maindeck two now. After going to playing strictly 26-guy lists, Sower just gets there. It's nuts against BGW Junk/Rock lists (Steal Confidant or Knight? Yes please.), is -the- card in the mirror, gnaws on Emrakul's face even though Emrakul's disappearing fast from the format, and gets a lot of other neat little cool guys. I've stolen Kuldotha Forgemasters, unhasted Goblin Sharpshooters, engine pieces against Elves, and my personal favorite steal? Signal Pest. Very cute.
EDIT: @Antonio: More than 20 land. 20 land stopped being enough for Merfolk when Coralhelm Commander got printed. 22 is probably better. I run 14 Island, 4 Mutavault, 4 Wasteland and I love it. (Never liked that one Factory, and while I personally think Alex's playskill and matchup understandings get him much further than one or two random card choices, I won't hate on the Factory too bad.)
@Taconoscape: after some testing, I agree with you that 20 lands might not be enough. I found it very important to always have two islands on the board, especially if there aren''t any vials in play. I've also maindecked two Sower of Temptations as to your advice, it proved to be awesome. Thanks for the advice!
To reply to some of the stuff being chatted about:
- Stealing creatures is pretty much the nut-high with this deck, I agree. I have two Sowers coming in the mail, and I'm looking forward to adding them somewhere in the mix.
- Recently, based on 4eak's list from a while ago, I have been trying 3 Vedalken Shackles in the sideboard, with a 16 Island, 4 Wasteland mana base. I haven't tested it enough to be conclusive, but I freakin' love Shackles, so thus far I'm leaning towards "it's worth it," although if I were to go up to 21 lands, Mutavault would be the first thing I would add back in.
- About Mutavault... It's still a great card, but these days, there are a few factors making it less of an auto-include in my mind. Control decks (and board sweepers) are seeing slightly less play than they were a while ago, because control strategies haven't found a clear target quite yet. Also, with the increased density of good creatures we have now, it's easier to play around sweepers in general. And, between Coralhelm Commander and the current popularity of using equipment somewhere in the 75, I usually have a lot of ways to invest extra mana besides animating Mutavault. I still have my copies, and I'm not getting rid of them or anything, but recently I haven't been missing them too much in my testing. Being truly immune to Wasteland is a strange and exhilarating experience.
- Another note is that, strangely enough, since I've dropped the Mutavaults for now, I really have actually been feeling like 20 lands is enough.
Just some (fish)food for thought. It's way in the wee hours my time, you're gonna have to excuse the terrible pun.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Well I played in the two events as intended this weekend and did pretty well. I will be writing a tournament report later today but saturday was the NELC Qaulifier in New York where I took the deck to a 7th place finish, at Sunday's GPT I was X-1 until round 5 of 6 where I lost my win and in round and thus my chance at top 8. The deck ran great for most of the weekend.
My List:
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Lord of ATlantis
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Merrow Reejery
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Aether Vial
13 Islands
4 WAsteland
4 Mutavault
1 Mishra's Factory
SB:
3 Submerge
3 Blue elemental blast
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Llawan Cephalid Empress
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sower of Temptation
2 back to basics
"Dredge isn't a deck, it's public masturbation with graveyard triggers."
How many Islands must be run to accommodate an effective Vedalken Shackles? I know it works great with 16 but, if you were going to squeeze some Mutavaults in, what it the minimum number of island for it to be effective?
Just have to think about what creatures you are trying to steal. The biggest one is probably goyf and he is usually a 4/5 5/6, so you will need a pretty high island count to have that many in play.
Merfolk probably needs more lands even if you are playing 16 islands
You're probably right... I guess the (painfully mundane) question is if I should add a Mutavault or an Island. And if I maindeck 4 Sovereigns and 4 Spell Pierces (no Standstills), which should I go -1 on in order to squeeze in the extra land?
Anyways, I love this deck and all, still... But I'm starting to get really bored with the lack of deck-building choices that it presents. Pretty much, we have about 4-8 flex slots in the main to play with, and the sideboard. And that's it. I guess this makes sense, as it's true of basically all tribal decks (and Tribal's weird cousin, Affinity, although those guys have been getting some love recently with the new sets). But I really wish we'd get a new spell to fuck with, or good new Merfs in a splash color, or really any new creature that did something awesome besides giving +1/+1 to all other fish. As Sejiri Merfolk's failure to gain like any popularity has shown, our curve is a little clogged up on two. Basically, my wishlist for new Merfolk is something awesome and disruptive for one mana (basically, a 1/1 Merfolk that sacrifices himself to Stifle would make me jizz in mah pants), or evasion/ good utility/ card advantage for two mana.
Has the rumor mill been predicting them to print any new Merfolk in upcoming expansion blocks or core sets? Because if nothing new comes out soon, screw it, I may just go back to running Wake Thrasher and Sygg, River Cutthroat just to try to squeeze some variety back into this shit.
Bless your heart, we must consider Blue/White Tempo's strategy and win percentages in an entirely different deck thread. -4eak
Have you ever tried Swords to Plowshares mainboard (as a 3-off)?
Have you ever tried Brainstorm + Fetchlands (White sideboard for Swords to Plowshares and Black splash for Perish)?
A teammate of mine (and me) tried some innovative things and running Brainstorm MB was pretty good. That's an understatement, to say the least. In the end we wanted to replace some Cursecatchers for Swords to Plowshares MB, but all in all we came to the conclusion that the metagame (here in Holland) is pretty bad for Merfolk at this moment. So we stopped digging for answers.
Team Nijmegen
Robbert Slavenburg
DCI: 2069307189
What are your opinions on the Swordfish list by Taylor Raflowitz?
2 Island
4 Lord of Atlantis
3 Force of Will
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Aether Vial
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Merrow Reejerey
4 Mutavault
4 Daze
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Coralhelm Commander
4 Cursecatcher
4 Wasteland
2 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Spell Pierce
Sideboard
1 Force of Will
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Perish
2 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Mindbreak Trap
The deck tech is here
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
With zero testing I can't say whether it is good or bad, but I'm not sure I like 3 colors. 6 fetches doesn't seem like enough to find the colors you need with 3 colors and getting wreck by wasteland. 4 sumbmerge seems better with 2 colors then just having 3 perish. I would def run the 4th force of will over the 4 daze if there isn't room and is fire/really needed main? Pretty sure you grab jitte 99%% of the time.
I used to play white and loved swords, but didn't like stoneforge. It actually takes away tempo, you cast/vial your creature and the have to wait 1/2 turns to play/equip and then you still lose to bolt/swords because fish are still small. Not to mention stoneforge isn't a merfolk, wouldn't 3 lords with some jittes just be better?
Testing Powder Keg in my Sideboard for Affinity and like it… Anybody else try Powder Keg? It also works well in other applications.
Powder Keg for more than 0 can destroy a lot of our board.
Powder Keg at 0 destroys there artifact land, Mox Opal, Ornithopter, and Memnite for the cost of two colorless. Some people like Null Rod but, that stops your Vials and Jitte’s permanently. Energy flux is ok but, has limited application against other decks. Powder Keg on the other hand is good against any deck with a token win condition: Dredge, Thopter, Empty the Warrens, etc. Maybe Pithing needle?
If you null rod against affinity, your vials and jittes will be their least concerns.
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