Starcity's new buy list - Consequences?

[GGoober]

A thousand times THIS. I would much rather go to bigger events and play an awesome format than sit around and enjoy my expensive collection by myself.

Yeah people keep asking me: "Shoudn't you be happy your cards are worth so much more now". I tell them "Yes but mostly no, because I would rather my duals be worth $10.00 than $100.00 and have much more people being able to play this format, and to not have ridiculously illogical card prices that don't make sense (e.g. trading 10 Wastelands for a beta power now)". At this point, with prices going so high, there won't be any worries about prices falling later because I'm not even buying the cards at these prices anymore (and I have a job that pays so it's not because I don't have the money).

[Pale Moon FTW]

Players vastly outnumber collectors, and even if duals and other expensive stables were reprinted, they'd still have their pimp stuff like beta and fbb so I don't see why the format should be allowed to slowly die in order to please a few collectors who have stuck up on revised duals. Collectors had a voice in the debate of whether to reprint vintage stables back in the day, because there were so few vintage players that collectors probably made up a comparable number of people, but with the popularity of Legacy, collectors are obviously a very small minority so they shouldn't get so much of a say.

[Sage]

I am not a fan of the huge surge in Legacy prices. When I got my duals, they had been holding their value with little increase for some time (~2006/7) at ~$18-35 a piece. Within the next year to 2 years, all of my cards doubled or more in price. How is anyone able to get into this format when everything costs this much?

My sollution is to reprint them, but not in a base set. Wizards should print them as rare inserts in just enough packs to get the prices back to what they were before the huge price increase. It may suck for everyone that paid $100 each for their U-Seas, but in my oppinion, the Seas should only cost ~$35 each (about what they were before). Prices should only reflect current inflation and rarity, not popularity.

The one problem with this idea (and any reprinting idea) is that should people suddenly stop playing Legacy, and it returns to its old population of players, then the reprints will pull the old cards far below what they were ever worth in recent times. If SCG's continues to support Legacy like they are, then this shouldn't be such a large risk. One way to deal with this would be to ban the inserts to bring the old cards back into price range again. If Wizards wants to protect collectors/players with a reprint pollicy, then why not just go all out and fully protect the game and its players/collectors by keeping the prices reallistic. I don't want to see Magic go the way of the housing market.

[ramanujan]

Sage,

The price of cards has always been contingent on popularity. The most general definition of value for a card is of the form

(Popularity)*(Rarity)=Value

Rarity is a value which in some general sense represents the reciprocal of population.

Jace TMS is about as rare as the other Mythics of Worldwake, it is far more expensive because it is more popular. Underground Seas should not have any particular value, as thier value is determined to an extent by the formula above. Another term may need to be added that modifies rarity to better represent availability, but in general the formula works.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Its easy as a player to say fuck collectors, but if you actually owned the cards you wouldnt like to have your investment go down the tubes because some 16 year old with a paper route cant afford a lotus. Functional cards have been printed for those who dont want to shell out money on the older cards. The shock lands are the same as duals, if you dont want to take two damage well then shut up amd put out for the duals because funtionally the cards are the same. If i need trops i can pay seven bucks apiece for breeding pools that function the same as a dual land.

Fuck collectors. I don't need to play shocklands because I have the fucking duals already. However, I'd prefer if all the people who wanted to play with duals had them too. That way I have more people to play against, more people are happy, and everything's awesome and we can all ride unicorns together in fairyland while playing with our sets of duals. Unfortunately, everybody having duals is about as likely as me riding a unicorn in fairyland because of A). Collectors B). Hasbro and C). Ball-sucking.

I'm not even going to bother addressing your claim that shocklands are functionally the same as duals, as it's probably the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

[bracer028]

Fuck collectors. I don't need to play shocklands because I have the fucking duals already. However, I'd prefer if all the people who wanted to play with duals had them too. That way I have more people to play against, more people are happy, and everything's awesome and we can all ride unicorns together in fairyland while playing with our sets of duals. Unfortunately, everybody having duals is about as likely as me riding a unicorn in fairyland because of A). Collectors B). Hasbro and C). Ball-sucking.

I'm not even going to bother addressing your claim that shocklands are functionally the same as duals, as it's probably the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

in certain decks, shocks are functionable. especially blue control decks. With blue control decks, I don't mind taking the 2 life anyways, since you will lose more often than by 2 points.

HOWEVER, if i'm playing suicide...NO CAN DO

in any event, i just bought myself a playset of taigas.

savannahs are next

[TooCloseToTheSun]

Fuck collectors. I don't need to play shocklands because I have the fucking duals already. However, I'd prefer if all the people who wanted to play with duals had them too. That way I have more people to play against, more people are happy, and everything's awesome and we can all ride unicorns together in fairyland while playing with our sets of duals. Unfortunately, everybody having duals is about as likely as me riding a unicorn in fairyland because of A). Collectors B). Hasbro and C). Ball-sucking.

I'm not even going to bother addressing your claim that shocklands are functionally the same as duals, as it's probably the dumbest thing I've heard all day.

Srsly, why isn't Hasbro just giving away old staples to everyone that wants them? Its not like they make money on the secondary market.

[troopatroop]

Legacy Uncommons and Snow Covered Duals for 15$ Hasbro. Do it, you won't.

[ramanujan]

TooCloseToTheSun

One of the reasons why Magic has succeeded over the years is because it does not give away functional copies of old valuable cards. It would be pretty difficult to convince new players to play if it would be expected that all of the valuable cards now will be worthless in a few years when they can just get them for free. Your suggestion and valuation of why it is okay for reprints to occur is ludicrously shortsighted. A move like that would bankrupt every online MTG singles retailer. It would probably destroy the whole game.

[ns2973]

You would think handling it like online would work. Release a new bordered "masters edition" with all the staples that aren't on the restricted list, and functional reprints of the others?

[Admiral_Arzar]

TooCloseToTheSun

One of the why Magic has succeeded over the years is because it does not give away functional copies of old valuable cards. It would be pretty difficult to convince new players to play if it would be expected that all of the valuable cards now will be worthless in a few years when they can just get them for free. Your suggestion and valuation of why it is okay for reprints to occur is ludicrously shortsighted. A move like that would bankrupt every online MTG singles retailer. It would probably destroy the whole game.

This is most likely true. However, it doesn't stop them from (as has been suggested a gazillion times before) abolishing the reserved list and gradually reprinting things in FTVs or whatever. The latter path would be extremely healthy for the game, rather than destructive.

[SlopeeJ]

Who are these collectors anyways? Do they still collect and buy packs? How do they collect the game, are they not pissed there 60$ collectible Baneslayer rotated and now is worth 10$?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Who are these collectors anyways? Do they still collect and buy packs? How do they collect the game, are they not pissed there 60$ collectible Baneslayer rotated and now is worth 10$?

In my mind, a true collector would collect the cards for the cards themselves, not necessarily the monetary value associated with them. There are people who treat the game as an investment or way to make an easy profit though - they're called speculators (aka the scum of the earth).

[Ozymandias]

Arzar: Do you suggest that the united states government fund its expenditures by printing more money?

[GGoober]

Aren't we already doing so? That's why we've been so screwed. Lol

[Koby]

in certain decks, shocks are functionable.

The day shocklands are the defacto duallands, is the day that RDW will be a winner.

[makochman]

The day shocklands are the defacto duallands, is the day that RDW will be a winner.

They have synergy with Death's Shadow...

[kiblast]

in certain decks, shocks are functionable. especially blue control decks. With blue control decks, I don't mind taking the 2 life anyways, since you will lose more often than by 2 points.

Ask any Muc or Landstill player if they mind starting the game at 18 life instead of 20. Playing Shocklands in Blue based control is not only sub par, but counterproductive as well. One of the decks which can afford playing with shocklands is RG/RB Goblins, for example. Just slap in one Dual (either Taiga or Badlands) and the rest shocklands. Gobs can afford playing shocklands with few drawbacks. Muc, UWx etc can't.

[CranialX]

I am glad that the cards i have increase it value. But it also sadden me that i am having difficulty affording cards that i don't have yet. If this continue the demand will decrease because people cant afford it anymore. With that less people will turn away from the format. If Wizards will not reprint. Can they just control price? or set a limit on price?

[edgewalker]

I don't really play legacy anymore so any point I make are probably invalidated by that fact, but...

Is it me, or is the extent to which wizards/hasbro/whoever is protecting collectors is, at the root, arbitrary? I remember a time when I could buy a birds of paradise and a taiga for the same price. (actually, the taiga was 2 dollars cheaper) That doesn't seem to be the case anymore since Birds have been reprinted into oblivion and taiga was put on the no reprint list. Why? Again the distinction they draw between which cards deserve to maintain their scarcity (and therefore their value) are, to me at least, not so obvious. Likewise, what makes the Legacy investor/collector any more important than the T2/Extended collector/investor. There seems to be a lot of concern about the Legacy collectors cards, but what about the other two? Is it because the t2/extended cards rotate? What about survival of the fittest? Clearly the powers at be don't care too much about the collectors. The argument in favor of collectors seems very nonsensical because there is no clear distinction between what cards deserve scarcity preservation and what cards don't.

...Something I thought of when I was finishing this and didn't know where to put it, but obviously the powers don't care too much about collectors, case in point the printing of Noble Heirarch. I don't think anyone was too concerned about my hypothetical collection of Birds of Paradise when the cards was printed. Again, the distinction is far to hazy to say collectors should matter.