[Deck] Elves Combo

[k2thej]

Question to all wish players who want to wish for something vs. dredge.
If we see that we cannot race, what do we wish for?

Karakas, because we expect most dredge players to abuse iona and once she is out we cannot wish anymore?

Bojuka Bog, because we want to remove the GY right now and think that this buys us enough time. However if putrid imp is out there it might only give us 1 turn... also we we wish for bojuka, we have to play it this turn, because if not we allow the dredge player to finish the game next turn or somehow prepare for his gy to be removed..

Faerie Macabre, because we want to react in his turn and we think removing two cards is enough, altough he knows we have the Faerie?
Which cards would you remove typically? (wait for dread return or remove his only 2 dredgers when playing breakthrough?

...something completely different?

I havent played that much vs dredge and I have no experience using wish to disrupt dredge.
Do you have input for me?

You shouldn't have much of a problem racing dredge. If you see that you can't, well, the only really good defense against dredge tends to be MD defense. But you shouldn't judge the matchup as what to do if you see that you are going to lose, you should think about the likelihood that this will occur. I've boarded in crypts against dredge a bunch of times, and never even had to use them, so I just stopped putting them in the board.

[catmint]

I know your attitute towards the dredge matchup K2. I don't think the reace is all that clear in our favour especially because they have a very effective cabal therapy to cribble our hand. My question was also not what you think about the dredge MU, but very specific what is the best play using wish with different targets/scenarios....

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I would wish for Bojuka Bog and wait until their yard is worth removing, if it's not immediately. You just have to assume that they can't combo off in one turn from chicken scratch.

If it becomes problematic, Faerie Macabre might be worth considering.

[k2thej]

I know your attitute towards the dredge matchup K2. I don't think the reace is all that clear in our favour especially because they have a very effective cabal therapy to cribble our hand. My question was also not what you think about the dredge MU, but very specific what is the best play using wish with different targets/scenarios....

Ah, my bad. Would you agree that if they do not cast Dread Return then we have quite the edge in the race? If so, then wouldn't mccabre be the best choice? You can remove it as soon as it hits the yard, remove the creature that they would target, or even remove bridges/ichords to prevent them from paying for it.

I think this is a much better option because I don't think there is much of a difference in the outcome of the game between a well played mccabre and a bojuka bog or other cards that remove the whole yard. So why settle to wish for sorcery speed removal then if we can use instant speed and be just as effective?

[Koby]

Is this a frequent enough matchup that matters enough to warrant enough specific hate cards for? I think the variance on dredges is high enough that we can just hope to be faster than they are. The only concern is Dread Return on Iona. The rest can just be answered with Annihilator 6 and a team of pointy eared green dudes. I'm willing to accept a marginal matchup against Dredge if that means my sideboard is better tailored at beating Storm.

Also keep in mind that Thorns of Amethyst still rocks in this matchup.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

No, I think catmint is right. Cabal Therapy poses enough of a problem that I really do think a Wish target is necessary. I think k2's argument for Faerie Macabre is compelling though. It would also be a better card against Reanimator.

[k2thej]

Is Iona still in most dredge builds? I thought most lists were going for the kill now. I sure haven't seen her in a while.

[catmint]

I've seen Iona recently testing in MWS vs. 2 different dredge builds... Without knowing it I don't think I would go for karaks though, because GY remvoal surely helps...
The argument for Faery Macabre makes sense... vs reanimator my initial thought was to go for Karakas, but the problem is that they can just change targets to Blazing Archon, which is also a GG vs my list... In this extreme situations only a Masticore or a Duplicant would help, but probably not worth wasting a sideboard spot for it...

Concerning wish targets: Revoker came in pretty handy in a couple of games
- vs. Grim Lavamancer in a strange (probably bad) 4 color zoo build: revoker did not live long, but bought enough time to have 1 archdruid and 1 titania out for the win next turn.
- and twice in late game situations vs. planeswalkers for the aggro win...

[catmint]

Just played 2 Matches vs. Cephalid Breakfast.
Conclusion: Without wish for Faerie Macabre it would be a tough Matchup.

The race is close, but might be in our favour if not disrupted. However FoW, & cabal therapy give him supreme disruption.
Post Board he also had 4 Perish...

Playing 4 wish, he has 4 more targets for FoW & cabal and we also have the ability to disrupt, so this really improves the matchup. Having 4 spots for disruption available in G1 as early as T2 is also a very important factor. I do think siding in 4 Relic or 4 Crypt would give us a much bigger edge in G2, because we can play them earlier and they are harder to get rid of. But since nobody wants to use SB spots for GY hate, wishing for Faerie is an ok alternative.

Here the report from the match:

Match 1:
G1: I had a slow hand but was able to wish for Faerie. He went off, and he hit 1 Cabal before 2 relevant cards were in GY, so I could only remove 1 of his 2 Dread Return: 0:1
G2: I kept a hand with 3 lands, 1 mana elf, 1 qurion and a Living Wish. I kept because of wish, but it was forced; I drew 2 lands. 0:2

Match 2:
G1: It was close: 1 glimpse was forced, 1 wish was forced, 1 glimpse for cabaled. Since he had no hand I was able to win with titania, visionary, quirion, wirewood: 1:0
G2: Wish was Forced, 2nd Wish for Faerie, He Perished 4 Elves and a wirewood, I knew I only had 1 more turn, before he would go off and he already had a cabal in GY for my Faerie. Couldnt find a glimpse or a tutor for force, but I got lucky because I could remove 1 dread return and the second Dread was in the last 3 cards. He needed another turn, because he was not using the combo with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, but with Lord of Extinction, Sutured Ghoul and had Dragon Breath in his Hand: 2:0 ...LOL

[Koby]

I've been playing this list for the last few days against a lot of random matchups. Below the list are some notes on the cards and how I propose to adjust them.

4 Forest
2 Bayou
5 Fetchlands
3 Gaea's Cradle

4 Llanowar Elves
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Birchlore Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Elvish Archdruid
1 Elvish Spirit Guide

1 Regal Force

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish
1 Summoner's Pact

Sideboard:
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Krosan Grip

1 Emrakul
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Terastodon
1 Viridian Shaman

1 Flexslot (currently Wasteland, could also be Vexing Shusher depends on metagame)

I've noticed in my testing that the 3rd Archdruid wasn't necessary for combo, nor really for the beatdown back up plan. I'm cutting it down to 2 since I already have Priest of Titania to make up the mana. I'm also trying out 1 Summoner's Pact in his place, but I suspect that the critical mass of tutors may be exceeded to the point that some opening hands have too many tutors and not enough elves. I may end up balancing the numbers between GSZ and Pact, as I still see Living Wish super useful. Between 11-13 could be the right number for the non-Glimpse tutors in the deck.

[Darklingske]

Just finished a tournament of 28 people. Lost in the semi's to team america.
R1: NLT. 2-1
G1 I combo on T3. G2 I begin to combo, but fizzle on T3. T4 I forgot to pay Pact trigger. Okay, so now it happend to me, won't happen again!! G3 combo T3, fizzle. He firespouts my board, I combo again on T7. I'm playing combo and this round I went in time. Awkward!!
R2: this happens every time: the mirror! 2-1
G1 I combo on turn 3. G2 he combos on T2 but fizzles, I combo on T2 but fizzle also with about 13 elves on board and a 14 times kicked warcaller. He combos again T3 and puts all his deck on board together with Emrakul. Needless to say that I die when he attacks. G3 I combo on T5 after a mulligan to 5 and a cabal therapy wich hit 2 glimpse! You gotta love the deck :) but again, we went in time!
R3: White stax 2-0
G1 he opens with plains, mox diamond. I open with forest, fyndhorn. T2 plains, go. I set up to combo on T3 with quirion, visionary. T3 he puts moat into play. T3 I combo and attack with Emrakul. G2 he puts peacekeeper in play T2. I have an out with the sided Motarpod but need to find him. T3 I start to combo but fizzle after hitting 5 lands. T4 he does nothing except paying for his peacekeeper. T4 I draw a land and pass. T5 he does nothing except O-Ring on my Regal Force. T5 I start to combo again. Unfortunatly the mortarpod is the third last card in my deck and thus my combo turn takes me about 10 minutes. And yes, again I went into time.
R4: Painted stone: ID
R5: Sneak Attack: ID and top 8 is locked!
In the quarters I'm paired against my opponent from R4 with Painted stone (2-0).
I win the die roll and open with Forest, Fyndhorn. He opens with Volcanic, Ponder. T2 I prepare for a T3 combo. T2 he prepares for a T3 combo. T3 i start to combo, but again fizzle after hitting 4 lands. He takes his turn, thinks for about 10min, plays BS, Intuition for grindstone, painter, LED of wich I give him grindstone. On this moment I already counted every possibility for him to reach mana (he has 2 welders active) and noticed that he can't make 3 mana to activate the stone. Unfortunatly he doesn't see it and takes about 15 minutes to decide that he can't make it and passes. T4 I combo again. G2 he starts with land, welder. I play forest, Llanowar. T2 sees Mox Opal, Great Furnace for him. I play Heritage, Quirion, visionary. T3 he plays volcanic and BS. T3 I play Natural order into Progenitus. T4 he draws and scoops.
Semis I'm up against Team America (1-2)
I win the dieroll and open with forest, Fyndhorn. He opens with swamp and Inquisition wich eats a glimpse. I rip a quirion and prepare to combo on T3. He puts a goyf in play. T3 I combo. G2 he starts with underground sea. I fetch, Llanowar, wich eats a Force. T2 he casts Dark Confidant. T2 I prepare to combo. T3 he just goes Land, go. T3 I start to combo but fizzle after drawing 2 Land and 2 Glimpse. On his T4 he maelstrom pulses my heritages and gastly demises my Priest. I can't pay for Pact trigger and die. G3 is a simular scenario.
So I ended 3th and won a volcanic and 2 flooded strands. It was a blast to play the deck and I will continue doing it! My list will be posted tomorrow evening. For now, I'm going to bed!

[Capt4in]

Hi guys,

I'm usually a Zoo player, but I just started learning this deck, having copied David Vo's list from the recent SCG top 4. I'm finding the deck very powerful and a lot of fun, but I've run into a problem in playtesting: I don't know how to sideboard! Obviously, I know which decks I want which hate cards against (ie Thorns and Mindbreak traps vs opposing combo, grave-hate vs dredge, etc), but I don't know what cards to cut...should I just be shaving numbers on various cards, or are there specific cards that I want to get rid of in certain matchups?

[NihilObstat]

Hello again everyone! ^^

I'll make a quick report of a tourney: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=43263

1st round - Burn: This tend to be a nice pairing. If they waste their burn on creatures they can't win, if they waste it on us we race them.
G1 was a good elves hand. Game 2 he burned my only Llanowar leaving me with a slow hand, but instead of using the opportunity to burn my face he kept burning elves. I ended up winning aggro.

2nd round - High Tide: We tend to have a faster clock than theirs, and they only play 4 FOW.
Game 1 he mulled into 4 cards (no lands), I felt really bad (he's a friend) and I won just easily turn 2-3.
Game 2, I mull to 6, but keep a strong hand. He FOWs 2 Glimpses, and spends a Cunning wish for Pact of negation on an Archdruid. Then I topdeck Visionary which drew another Archdruid, cast, tap for aggro, and leave him in exactly 0 life. He would have made me draw the whole deck next turn.
This guy won the tournament afterward, and I was the only one to beat him.

3rd round - Team America:
Game 1 He starts with Underground. I tap fetch he Stifles it. He Hymn to tourach a Glimpse and a fetch. I luckily draw a forest and cast Llanowar. He Ghastly demises my Llanowar, and lands a Tarmogoyf and next turn he also has Tombstalker out.
Game 2 was even worse. Seeing that I needed a fast clock against him I tried to combo on turn 3, and landed tons of elves but I couldn't find and Archdruid so next turn he casts Engineered Plague, and does a 10 for 1 or so. I Krosan grip it, but he already has 2 Tarmogoyf out on the field. I try to land a small army protected by a super awersome Symbiote that fell prey to a Smother. Finally he overruned me.

4th round - Vampires: This guy plays some freaking fast vampires followed by the regular monoblack pack.
Game 1 We go into an surrealistic legacy game consisting of dropping creatures, attacking and doing some basic attack step tricks. None of us got almost any spells other than creatures. Two symbiotes were really useful here, but I didn't put enough pressure in, not forcing him to chump block and kill some of his vamps. So when he's at 4 lifes, he casts Vampire Nocturnus which makes his vamps huge and unreachable and kills me in 1 hit. Player mistake for not forcing him to lose some board spots.
Game 2 I keep a hand that needed 1 more land to combo turn 2, and I topdeck it.
Game 3 I can't remember too much. I know I was able to combo in the late game. It's been 8 days.

5th round - Dark dephts Rock: I know the guy. He runs Hymn to tourach, Thoughtseize, Pernicious Deed, Vindicate, Dark depths. Tough pairing.
Game 1 I keep a nice hand that he disrupts via Hymn to tourach. After a few turns I have some elves on the board and Summoner's pact, but not enough mana for Regal force, so I go for Archdruid and try to aggro him out. He goes down to 8 or so. In his turn he casts 2 Swords to plowshares, and leave me unable to pay for Pact's upkeep cost. First time I lose to it in a long time.
Game 2 I mull down to 6 but and keep a nice hand but maybe not fast enough against this pairing. Anyway he disrupts it and then follows with Engineered Plague, Vindicate to a forest and Pernicous...

6th round - MonoR Painters: This deck was super fun. He had "7" Red elemental blast which with Painter's servant work as Counterspells or Vindicates. Oh, yeah, and before we start playing he says, "Oh you write on The Source right? On the elves thread, but you stopped writing because you didn't like arguing". And I was like, "wow yeah, but hmm now you know my whole decklist, hehe".
Game 1 I combo win on turn 3 through an instant Vindicate effect.
Game 2 He casts first turn Painter's. I play Llanowar. He casts Sensei's divining top and Grindstone, and a "Vindicate" to my forest. I draw... see that if I had the forest I could combo, and happily concede ^^
Game 3 He is super scared that I play Emrakul, and sides in 4 Tormod's crypt effects. I go with Symbiote. He goes with Ratchet bomb. I swing for 1 damage and pass turn. He casts Painter's. I swing for 1 and he cracks the Bomb. I cast Llanowar and pass. He plays a Relic of progenitus and a second Ratchet bomb and passes. I generate magic elf mana and drop the whole hand, wish for Viridian Shaman and destroy the Bomb. He kills some elves via Red blasts but he doesn't run mass removal and I end up aggroing him out.
Very fun opponent, I really enjoyed the games and it was too bad that he didn't make top8 because of me.

Top8: So, you can imagine my face when I realize there's 2 Team America, 1 Rock, 1 Bant, 1 Stax in the top8. All GREAT pairings ^^
My pairing: Dark Depths Rock - again
Game 1 I win the roll which is awesome in this pairing. Llanowar, pass. Then, Symbiote, visionary. Then another symbiote, another visionary. Too much card advantage he couldn't disrupt enough and having always seven cards in hand and 2 Symbiote not even Pernicous was a danger.
Game 2 Thoughtseize to glimpse. Llanowar. Hymn to tourach... Engineered... ... ...
Game 3 I keep a filled board on the first turn but again I don't draw into any Archdruids which means I die next turn to Engineered plague.


So, my comments after this tournament are that:
Elvish Archdruid rock the house. He is the f****** best. I will consider running 4 of him. I never seemed to draw too many of him, but sometimes too little.
Maybe I was mistaken about only running 5 tutors. I had a couple games where I didn't find tutors soon enough which could have made a difference. I might go back to 4 Summoner's + 2 Living wish.
I didn't use my 4 Thorn of amethyst even once. I keep seeing less ANT lately, so I might drop them.
Viridian Zealot maindeck is a House!!! I didn't remember to quote it in the report but he saved my ass in 2 or 3 games.
I found 14 land to be very consistant, but I would have made that 13 + 1 Gaeas, but I couldn't get more than 1 for the tourney.

This maindeck seem so strong and consistent to me that I really don't feel like we need to add Vengevines. I will test them anyway, although I haven't had and will not have much time. I would like to test the Intuition list better than the Buried alive. I also like the regular combo list running Thoughtseize maindeck.

I'll let you know if I get any testing done or tournament reports.

Question to all wish players who want to wish for something vs. dredge.
If we see that we cannot race, what do we wish for?

I would wish for Yixlid jailer. I think she is the best card against Dredge, which is what you're asking. It might be too slow against reanimate as a Wish target, but it's good against Loam, Lands. So, answering your question it's Jailer, but I would go for Faerie Macabre for it being more versatile. Anyway Dredge isn't being played that much anymore, so I wouldn't waste any side on that pairing, other than Compost which is also good against Monoblack and other pairings.

[Koby]

Quick note since I'm tired as fuck. Made top 8 in a 53 man tourney with the list a few posts above, then promptly lost to TES in 4 turns. Total run: 5-2 (11-4).

Update tomorrow with details.

EDIT:
So the night before the tournament I was waffling between playing Mystic Bant and trying to get the courage to play Elves in a tournament again. I was testing the GSZ version on MTGO all week long, with moderate success. Mostly against TES/ANT to test out the black sideboard working. At the LGS I was testing against my buddy Chuck and his NO/Show list to see if I had game agiainst a fast clock. We played 3 games and I crushed him when he went Turn 2 Emrakul, Turn 3 Progenitus. Game went like this: Turn 2 Show and Tell - Emrakul for him, Elvish Archdruid for me. I untap and semi-combo off putting about 10 permanents on the field, including Priest of Titania. He attacks me down to 3 and casts Natural order for progenitus (At this point I have Priest, Archdruid, and Quirion Ranger out). My turn - make >17 mana, Living Wish for Emrakul, cast Emrakul - time walk + get rid of his Emrakul. On my 2nd turn I Glimpse and find the Emrakul again and win. This deck isn't fair at all :D

That's when I decided to just go for it in the tournament. I fixed up my Living Wish SB options (settled on 6 wish targets), and good to go! I carpooled up with Chuck on Sunday morning, get there and start the day.

Round 1 - Meandeck MUD (2-0)
Game 1 - He keeps a sketchy hand with Wasteland and Mox Opal, can't interact, and I combo off with Glimpse.
Game 2 - He keeps a slow hand without any turbo-boost in it, can't interact, and I destroy many of his artifacts with Viridian Shaman flickering in and out of play repeatedly.

Round 2 - Lands (2-0)
Game 1 - He can't interact with me profitably, and I combo off with Emrakul.
Game 2 - He casts a few Dark Confidants, and I start to setup a Glimpse turn, when I draw Living Wish with about 10 mana. I decide to go for Joraga Warcaller seeing the opportunity to just aggro out. He casts Intuition for EE/Mindbreak Trap/Mindbreak Trap. I give him a trap, even though it's better to let him have EE for this turn - but ultimately I can only attack with 2 creatures, and I'd rather just bait the Warcaller. He tutors/casts/pops EE for 1 the next turn anyway, but then I go off with Priest/Archdruid. Pretty hard for Lands to interact against Elves.

Round 3 - 4c Blue (1-2)
Game 1 - Cast Glimpse, but fail to draw non-lands. End up going aggro.
Game 2 - Keep a 5 land, Wirewood hand. Don't draw GSZ, Glimpse, Visionary, or Pact. Turn after he casts SFM for Jitte, I Duress to find he has a hand of Daze, Jitte, SoFI, StP, and Brainstorm. I scoop, as I'm still drawing lands.
Game 3 - Mull to a 6'er with Bayou, Therapy, 2 Living Wish, GSZ and Visionary. Therapy on Spellstutter, and he reveals: Wasteland, Daze, Hierarch, FoW, 2 lands. That's game boys.

Round 4 - Burn (2-0)
Game 1 - Turn 1 Priest of Titania off ESG. He plays Lavamancer on turn 1. I run out Elvish Visionary to cycle/setup and distract him, then when he's out of G/Y fodder, I combo off.
Game 2 - Mostly like game 1, with elves being a distraction. I cast Joraga Warcaller for 4 Multikicker to aggro get in there.

Round 5 - Infect Stompy (2-0)
Game 1 - His game plan revolves around attacking on turn 3. My game plan revolves around comboing turn 3. I went first.
Game 2 - Start with Therapy on Plague Stinger (hits!), revealing a hand with Ichorclaw Myr, Might of Old Krosa, and Phyrexian Crusader. He plays land, Myr go. I cast Priest of Titania, go. He pumps with Krosa, attacks, then pumps again with Invigorate to become a 9/9! I go to 9 poison counters in one hit. I untap and combo off. *Whew* Close call! Top card of his library = Berzerk. Dodging bullets FTW!

Round 6 - Next Level Thresh (2-0)
At this point I'm the last seeded 4-1's, so i have to play no matter what. I get paired down with 3-1-1, and I try to just ask for a concession. He refuses, so I show him what Combo Elves does.

Game 1 - Since the his deck has no clocks, I just take forever to setup. I get to the point where I cast Glimpse unmolested and get enough mana to cast Joraga Warcaller for 5 multikick, so he can't burn anything out.
Game 2 - Same idea, except he's got an active Lavamancer. Turn 2 I Living Wish for Cradle to setup for a combo turn, and he does not cast Daze. We play draw go for a while so I can setup, ands, and start chaining GSZ into Elvish Visionaries to keep Lavamancer busy. He's not familiar with the matchup, so he just burns them out. Once I get 8 cards in hand, I'm forced to go off, and start with Glimpse (no counter), Quirion Ranger, Nettle Sentinel, Heritage Druid (in resp he burns Quirion, which is wrong, and I told him afterwards), then proceed to draw about 70% of my deck, make 17 mana and cast Emrakul the hard way. Sometimes, this deck works so very nicely :D

Sneak into top 8 at 5-1, in 4th place (everyone played the last round it seems)

Top 8 - TES (0-2)
Game 1 - Keep a hand with lands, hope I don't lose before turn 3. I lose on turn 2 anyway.
Bring in 4 Therapy, 2 Duress; taking out Nettle Sentinel, Heritage Druid, Fyndhorn Elves, 2 Archdruids (too slow) and Wirewood Symbiote.
Game 2 -
Mull a good 7, since it doesn't contain a black spell.
Mull a good 6, since it doesn't contain a black spell.
Keep a decent 5, but does not contain a black spell.

Lose to turn 1 Dark Ritual x2, Ad Nauseum anyway. That's how it rolls.

Pretty fun tournament, and Archdruid mostly didn't matter. I like only running 2, and could even go down to 1 if I streamline the deck with more 1 drops. Didn't end up using most of the SB cards, as Elves is pretty much good maindeck, and only needs to shore up the faster combo matchups. I could try perhaps running Thorns since I now have ESG in the deck again, but with the added spells (GSZ, Pact, Glimpse,Wish), it is counter productive. Perhaps playing 2 Mindbreak Traps in addition to the discard would help increase the disruption density - or simply accept that I can't beat Storm combo. The only issue I have with this plan is that we already have a good matchup vs most of the decks, and Krosan Grip answers that already, so there's so much more room to improve the Storm matchup. Any thoughts?

Bonus: Decklist!

4 Forest
2 Bayou
7 Fetchlands
1 Gaea's Cradle (only own 2 in paper, so make due with what I got)

4 Llanowar Elves
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Birchlore Ranger
1 Quirion Ranger
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Elvish Archdruid
2 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Regal Force

4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Summoner's Pact
3 Living Wish

Sideboard:
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas (wanted to show-boat for infinite turns, but never got the chance)
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Terastodon
1 Emrakul

3 Krosan Grip
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Duress (lacking 'Seizes)

[catmint]

Hello again everyone! ^^

I would wish for Yixlid jailer. I think she is the best card against Dredge, which is what you're asking. It might be too slow against reanimate as a Wish target, but it's good against Loam, Lands. So, answering your question it's Jailer, but I would go for Faerie Macabre for it being more versatile. Anyway Dredge isn't being played that much anymore, so I wouldn't waste any side on that pairing, other than Compost which is also good against Monoblack and other pairings.

Congratulations to your good result! The Problem with Yixlid jailer is that you need to play black and that it does not help vs. Reanimator.

I was thinking about adding white for some supreme sideboard wish targets such as:
Burrenton Forge-Tender .. vs. burn, firespout
Dauntless Escort vs. perish, EE, firespout, wrath
Kataki, War's Wage vs. affinity, forgemaster
Ethersworn Canonist vs. Storm .. not a good enough plan I think, because it will be hard to cast it turn 2 and turn 3 might be too late.

My other wish targets are currently:
Heritage, Wirewood, Regal Force, Emrakul for combo
Viridian Zealot
Phyrexian Revoker Plainswalker, SD.top or anything that hurts in late game situations
Karakas Emrakul, Iona
Faerie Macabre Dredge, Renimator, Cephalid Breakfast
This leaves only 3 spots which I filled up with 2 Krosan grip and 1 Orim's chant (1 out vs. control/combo).

I am not sure if the plan stands a chance vs. ANT, TES. I am going to goldfish how often I have canonist on the board by T2 or T3.

[k2thej]

Nihil- looks like the only real difference between our lists now is that you're running a zealot main, and have one less pact and one less wish. And now you think you want to add another tutor. Dare I say we are starting to agree on the MD? haha

[Koby]

The more I play with GSZ, the more I'm impressed with it's purpose in the deck. It's no Summoner's Pact, but it definitely is a worth inclusion. Everytime I cast it I feel like I'm playing with Survival again.

[GGoober]

Nice job rukcus, and why you keep a 5 land hand Game 2 in Legacy?!?!? lol

The match against turn 2 Emrakul infect sounds really adrenaline rushing :D

Also, I really like how you play ESG, because I think the bottleneck on Elf's combo turn is how fast they get the Priest of Titania in play. If you sneak it a turn earlier, it's usually a turn earlier combo'ing off. Well you still have Heritage Druid combo but that's in the cases where you don't draw Druid, having an earlier Priest really matters.

[Koby]

I literally said this upon keeping the 5 land hand: "OK, let's see where this hand goes..."

Famous last words XD

RE: ESG - I used to play 3 ESG in the old Grapeshot lists, prior to Emrakul getting printed. After putting together k2thej's 1 drop list, I took them out as they were mostly/sorta dead (more useful than lands, but less consistent than lands), along with Priest of Titania. With the printing of GSZ, Priest of Titania raises in value for this deck, and being able to play her out on turn 1 makes all the difference. I feel like this list is much closer to Survival Elves than any previous version. (even with the choice of 2 pact/3 GSZ compared with 2 Pacts/3 Survival) It also gives you Daze-proof any of your spells.

Also, a note about Game 2 of Round 3 - I tried to resolve a Archdruid, but it got triple Dazed. It was a rough matchup all around.

Another thought about the combo matchup - a white plash for Silence/Teeg wouldn't be a bad idea at all. Running more ESG allows you to go ballistic crazy fast with hate bears/ tutoring/ whatever. I've mentioned in the past that being able to use ESG to accelerate turn 1 hate bears/Null Rod/Thorns is a possible options, and I'm now more convinced of it.

[GGoober]

@ 5 lands hand: I tell myself that too all the time "I have 5 lands in hand, I will only draw gas". Nope XD. I think the reason is probably because if you're drawing a 5-land hand, your deck is clumped up, so you are probably still near a clumped well of lands or non-lands. It's best to pile shuffle and randomize the deck again when these clumps happen.

The same shit happens to me keeping 1 land hand with Brainstorm in 24 land decks, you don't see lands. I really think the many-lands and no-lands hands have to be mulled because the deck is most likely clumped up. Regardless, I think I'm starting to force myself at the beginning of every game to look at my opening 7 and ask myself "Is this a Legacy hand, a Vintage hand, a Standard hand or an EDH hand?" (lol EDH hand = hand with 2 Elspeth, 2 Jace, and a Crucible :P)

My friend and I used to play Survival Elves back with Entity/Anger before VV was printed, and ESG was hotly debated. Of course we ended up playing lists with lower land count and 3 ESG because everytime you get a turn 1 Priest/Survival, you should be winning. The current elf combo that you guys are developing seems to focus more on heritage/sentinel rather than Priest. Survival builds were primarily focused on Priest, which I can see your list doing so as well, and I do agree with your arguments that Priest is more important in a GSZ build. And having the extra mana against combo with ESG should most definitely make a difference. I never really liked Cabal Therapy back in the days against combo. It was easier to just drop Thorn and race their life totals. Also, with the white splash, would you opt for Entity in the SB? Is it worth a Wish target? I would assume you can bring him in MD as a lord-effet against Firespout or control decks.