[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[neckfire]

gentlemen you may or may not know me but i was one of the original players for this deck*go all the way back to page one to see:)* i was with this deck since it was just an idea before it ever became anything...it comes with a great sadness i have to say that this deck is officially dead.
Mental Misstep i believe has finally put the last nail in the coffin for dreadstill,in order for this deck to survive it need's to be overhauled and reevaluate every single slot.
perhaps the new toptor artifact deserves a slot.

[Rico Suave]

I am currently not running standstill/factory simply because I feel these weaken the tribal matchups even more preboard and play to the matchups where the deck is already strong i.e. combo/slower aggro. Good idea or bad? I like the stability of the mana base and think that Bob provides a good draw engine already.

Is there anyways to improve the tribal matchups preboard w/o splashing red?

Playing Factory will improve your tribal matchups preboard.

[AngryTroll]

gentlemen you may or may not know me but i was one of the original players for this deck*go all the way back to page one to see:)* i was with this deck since it was just an idea before it ever became anything...it comes with a great sadness i have to say that this deck is officially dead.
Mental Misstep i believe has finally put the last nail in the coffin for dreadstill,in order for this deck to survive it need's to be overhauled and reevaluate every single slot.
perhaps the new toptor artifact deserves a slot.

It will depend on how many people end up playing 4x Mental Misstep. It will certainly not make its way into every deck in the format, and if it sees play in limited numbers, Dreadnought could very well survive. A few months ago Dreadstill was a bad metagame choice because of the omnipresence of Quasali Pridemage, but the Dreadnought-eating Grizzly Bear sees so much less play now that Dreadstill is again playable.

I do not believe that Torpor Orb will actually be playable in Dreadstill. Stifle and Trickbind have at least some utility in every matchup, and can blow unprepared opponents out of the water. Torpor Orb is terrible in multiples (unless for some reason your opponent counters it instead of the Dreadnought) and does nothing if you don't have a Dreadnought.

I do not disagree that card choices in the deck may need to be re-evaluated. Mental Misstep may fit right into the maindeck, and Counterbalance and/or Standstill may move back to the maindeck, but it will depend upon how much Mental Misstep shakes up the format.

[J.V.]

• Okay Tom's Mini-rant:
  
• Dreadstill isn't dead at all, if anything Mental Misstep helps Dreadstill... a lot. Why? Because it makes the card that was the main reason to play Dreadstill the best it has ever been: Standstill.
  
• Torpor Orb is terrible. 9/10 times Trinket Mage+Tools and Trickbind will be better than a shitty artifact that lets you Cheat a Dreadnought into play. With the exception of maybe Goblins, it makes no matchups better (and even here the point about Trinket Mage and Trickbind may indeed be valid)
  
• Torpor Orb weakens counterbalance as it discourages you from running 3cc cards maindeck.
  

• gentlemen you may or may not know me but i was one of the original players for this deck*go all the way back to page one to see:)* i was with this deck since it was just an idea before it ever became anything...it comes with a great sadness i have to say that this deck is officially dead.

• You've been piggy backing on this one for a while, but I'm going to go ahead and call you out on this one... Rodney, Rob Rogers (Hammafistroob) and I were playing Dreadstill for about a year before you ever picked it up. I would say the only person who really helped the testing outside of Hammafist was Rich Shay (and his teammates on ReflectionoitcelfeR who in turn helped him test) and he only picked it up after being smashed with it by Rodney for a few tournaments.
  
• The old meta was a bad position for Dreadstill because of two things Wild Nacatal and the gigantic amount of Merfolk being played, Qasali Pridemage was rarely relevant. Your deck has 9001 maindeck answers to it.
  
• Thank you Angry Troll for being a voice of reason. The same to you Rico.
  
• //End Rant
  
  
• This list is dedicated to Zach Tartell

[The Atog Lord]

First, let me agree with JV that Dreadstill has never been dead.

Second, I don't know why we're discussing moving Standstill or Counterbalance ``back'' into the deck. They never left.

No one wanted to play Illusionary Mask in Dreadstill. This new Orb isn't much better than Mask. If the metagame shifts such that Rock with Eternal Witness and Shriekmaw and Kitchen Finks becomes Tier One, or something like that, then maybe this Orb will be viable. Until then, I don't think it will be worth playing. Trickbind is a pretty strong card on its own. And the last time I played Dreadstill, I ran 4 Stifle and 3 Dreadnoughts and no other Stifle-effects. Of course, this is a function of the expected metagame.

[kiblast]

This new Orb isn't much better than Mask.

I'd say Orb is better, as at least we know how it functions.

That said, not worth wasting a single slot into a Dreadstill build. Tried it today, Orb is absolutely crap in here. I'd really prefer even the single Trickbind to it. By the way, Misstep has just made Standstill even more unfair. If for some time people argued the presence of Standstill maindeck ( I did, since my meta is pretty full of Vial Aggro), now it's a solid 4x, as is Misstep.

[Amon Amarth]

I haven't tested MM here yet but I don't know what to cut. I really like the singleton Trickbind and Daze. And I play 4 Dreadnoughts so I can turbo 'Nought people on turn 2 more often. That and I don't really like the idea of playing it in the first place. It's so narrow. I'll just let you better players do it for me. :P

[kiblast]

I haven't tested MM here yet but I don't know what to cut. I really like the singleton Trickbind and Daze. And I play 4 Dreadnoughts so I can turbo 'Nought people on turn 2 more often. That and I don't really like the idea of playing it in the first place. It's so narrow. I'll just let you better players do it for me. :P

IMHO, the equation is simple- 4 MM means better and safer Standstills, so 4MM---> 4 Standstills. I cutted Daze and one Top to fit them in. Having Pro Swords on your Nought is also a nice thing.

[Jackehehe]

Having Pro Swords on your Nought is also a nice thing.

Remains to be seen, but I think this is what will make MM so absurdly good in dreadstill, it supports standstill but ALSO protects our noughts after r2+, making them useful later in the game as well

[Rood]

Card counters StP, Vial, Lackey, Top, Spell Snares on CB/Standstill, Path, Oposing Stifles, Pierces...REBs. MM will be really powerful in this deck. I'd even go as far to say the new standard countersuit might be

4 MM
4 Force
3-4 Spell Snare
0-1 Daze

Torpor Orb is interesting and I do like the card. As others have mentioned im not really sure it will fit in this deck over Trickbind. Standstill being questioned anymore should be over with...this card is an auto 3-4 of now. Counterbalance will be stronger than it has ever been, we might need to think about running 4.

[Morgothian]

I played Dreadstill in various tournament in Italy, when survival of the Fittest was the dominant archetype and Dreadstill URB his natural born killer (Perish, Extirpate, Lavamancer, Confidant and a nice beast on turn 2).

After the survival ban and after one final on 40 people, one top8 on 54 people, one 10° for rating on 76 people (5-1-1) and one 5-2 on 106 people, I made a 1-4 against unskilled opponents and complete retards, just because the meta shifted: everyone was playing Merfolk or Maverick with 4-6 plowshares and 4 Qasali.

Consequently, I shifted to CounterTop Thopters and made 4 finals in a row.

Now, New Phyrexia gave me new inspiration and yesterday I built this list and tested against some friends:

2 Misty rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Islands
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Dark Confidant

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
3 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Stifle
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Torpor Orb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor

Sideboard is composed by the classics for UWB: Peacekeepers, Perish and a bunch of silver bullets we can tutor with Enlightened.

I can proudly affirm that MM solves some of the most obnoxious problems of the deck:

-you can counter Aether Vial/Wild Nacatl/Goblin Lackey/Thoughtseize, which were annoying opponent openings for the deck
because they mine your Balance plan or they hit you hard ifyou don't have a fast Dreadnought
-you can protect a T2 Confidant or Dreadnought from Stp
-you can play a T2 Counterbalance tapped out and respond to an opponent Spell Snare

Moreover, MM allows you to improve your denial plan, because it's not infrequent that you stifle a Fetch and then the opponent tries to find a land with a Brainstorm, which can be promplty Misstepped, and has other valuable targets like Sensei's Divining Top or even E.E. played at 1.

I finally have to defend Torpor Orb: 1x of a tutorable card is surely better than Trickbind, because allows you to play multiple copies of Dreadnought and also resolves the choice conflict about stifles: denial or Dreadnought? During the test yeasterday I found myself comfortable in stifling enemy fetches when I hadn't a T2 or T3 ready Dreadnought, because I was able to tutor Torpor Orb. Also, this card does not only improve the Goblin MU stopping Goblin Matron tutoring Tinkerer or Warren Weirdings and Ringleader: it stops Vendillion Clique + Karakas recursion, Stoneforge equip tutoring, Trinket Mages, Silvergill Adepts, Spellstutter Sprites and random Harmonic Slivers tutored with Green Sun Zenits, which is not that fundamental but it's just something more than having a permanent stifle in play.

The evident weakness of the deck is the presence of only one cc3 drop, but it can be tutored by Enlightened on the top for CB; also, post side there are 6 cc3 cards that can be boarded and at least the 3 perishes are useful against green decks which use Krosan Grip and Knight of the Reliquary.

I really want to fin space for the 4th MM...

[AngryTroll]

...Second, I don't know why we're discussing moving Standstill or Counterbalance ``back'' into the deck. They never left....

Counterbalance isn't amazing in a metagame full of Big Zoo and Dredge, and Standstill has been a poor choice for a while now in Merfolk heavy metagames. Many people have been cutting Standstills and Counterbalances as a function of metagame for a while now; Mental Misstep is a very good reason not to move those cards out of the maindeck.

IMHO, the equation is simple- 4 MM means better and safer Standstills, so 4MM---> 4 Standstills. I cutted Daze and one Top to fit them in. Having Pro Swords on your Nought is also a nice thing.

Both of these things look true. Standstill just got much, much better, and Dreadstill is probably the deck that most wants to be able to counter Swords to Plowshares in the late game, and Counterbalance and Mental Misstep both do that.

Remains to be seen, but I think this is what will make MM so absurdly good in dreadstill, it supports standstill but ALSO protects our noughts after r2+, making them useful later in the game as well

Dreadstill is one of the decks that most wants to counter late game Swords to Plowshares. I think Mental Misstep makes much more sense in this deck than in a threat-heavy deck like Big Zoo. I'm actually excited to run Mental Misstep in this deck.

Standstill being questioned anymore should be over with...this card is an auto 3-4 of now. Counterbalance will be stronger than it has ever been, we might need to think about running 4.

It'll be interesting to see how the list shakes out now with 3-4 Standstills, 3-4 Counterbalances, and 3-4 Mental Misstep in the maindeck. I'd still like to run 3-4 Swords to Plowshares, and suddenly there's even less room than usual for everything.

Mental Misstep is very good against Dreadstill; While I do not think every deck should run 4 Mental Misstep, I think a lot of decks will try to (initially, at least), and that's not good for a deck that is so dependent upon Stifles and Tops.

[GGoober]

Chiming in on Misstep in decks packing Standstill:

Misstep on the play/draw is in every way ensuring an eary Standstill that resolves. If you're on the play, you no longer need hands with EOT StP, turn 2 Standstill. You now have both StP/MM on turn 1 plays to set up a turn 2 Standstill. On the draw, you now have the option to free counter a 1cmc spell, then on your turn 1, have Spell Snare/StP for their 2nd drop followed up with a Standstill.

The combination of Misstep/StP/FoW in the first 2 turns whether you're on the play/draw (in particular very powerful on the play), has been a huge boon to Standstill.dec. There are 3 Standstill decks that mainly benefit the most out of Misstep: Landstill, Dreadstill, Merfolks (if they play MM, they should play Standstill, my opinion).

Standstill was already an insane card-drawing engine. I have no idea why people cut standstills in fear of vials. You cut the 4th standstill if Vials are overly dominant, but never did I cut Standstills against Vials, with the exception on boarding out the 3rd Standstill on the DRAW against ONLY merfolks. People who are afraid of Standstill being dead in games against vial decks do not get the point that cutting Standstill doesn't solve the vial problems. The way to solve the vial problem is to solve it with cards that deal with Vial. It's a control player's bane to deal with vial, but you have to deal with it. This solution does not depend on whether standstill is dead in the early game because if you do not solve the vial-problem, playing with/without Standstills make no difference as you will die to vial. However, once you solve Vial, that Standstill is going to draw you 3 cards above your opponents, at this point if you did cut Standstills and solved the vial problem, you will usually be low on cards and would have wished you had a Standstill to follow up.

[sdematt]

To be honest, even though the card's good, I'm not sure it really needed to be printed. Basically, I'm not a fan of the card because making one drops less effective is not my idea of the right way to shift a format :(

-Matt

[kiblast]

I'd even go as far to say the new standard countersuit might be

4 MM
4 Force
3-4 Spell Snare
0-1 Daze

Wich is the exact counter suit I'm currently testing, minus Daze. It's probably the most light, flexible yet strong counter suit currently available (in a Wasteland + Stifle environment).

Torpor Orb is interesting and I do like the card. As others have mentioned im not really sure it will fit in this deck over Trickbind. Standstill being questioned anymore should be over with...this card is an auto 3-4 of now. Counterbalance will be stronger than it has ever been, we might need to think about running 4.

I was excited by Orb in the first hours of testing it, then realized that Trickbind is:
a) a better topdeck (still not an exciting one, depending on the gamestate)
b) better if seen in conjunction with Stifle for redundancy (there's always a lot of cards and situations where Stifle-Trickbind are relevant), where Orb provides an useless addition.

Therefore, could be nice in 1x but still I'd rather play Trickbind.

What do you guys think about Counterbalance in conjunction with Mental Misstep?

[keys]

decklist

This is basically identical to the one I posted a page back, except -1 Dark Confidant, -1 Spell Snare, -1 Enlightened Tutor, +3 Standstill.

What are you SB silver bullets?

[Jackehehe]

To be honest, even though the card's good, I'm not sure it really needed to be printed. Basically, I'm not a fan of the card because making one drops less effective is not my idea of the right way to shift a format :(

-Matt

Matt, you're an honest decent man but...

you can't win games with that attitude!

While I do agree that I'm also a bit anxious over this new card (especially since I basically just spent 300 $ on a new deck but now basically going back to dreadstill) I think its going to be a complete BLAST to play in dreadstill. Seriously, excuse my language, but I came a little when I realized the potential MM has in dreadstill.

The new deck I mentioned above is Hanni's countertop supefriends deck and its really fun and cool to play. That deck utilizes countertop much more than dreadstill does and im curious if there are any ideas floating around on increasing the mana curve, having more 3 and maybe even 4 drops to make counterbalance more effective? Has there been any discussion about this? as far as I can tell, the only 3 drop conventional dreadstill lists have is trinket mage.

[keys]

Enlightened Tutor helps to abuse Counterbalance. You can tutor for Oblivion Ring to get your 3cc.

[Amon Amarth]

I never took CB out of my list. I mean, you don't need to counter many spells just the plows/bolt on your Noughts/Confidants. That will win you the game. Nothing flashy just grind them out.

[oRen]

Card counters StP, Vial, Lackey, Top, Spell Snares on CB/Standstill, Path, Oposing Stifles, Pierces...REBs. MM will be really powerful in this deck. I'd even go as far to say the new standard countersuit might be
4 MM
4 Force
3-4 Spell Snare
0-1 Daze

One point seems awful to me. 0 daze would leave us with only 4 forces for stuff like sneak attack, NO or enemy Jace which seems not that smart to me. Countering anything over CC2 with the balance was always some kind of gambling and not really something to calculate on.
I honestly think that CB + 4 Forces are not enough to deal with the meta. The dazes are good and at least 2 should be kept in because the opponents often do not have the time for playing around the them [ie dreadnought on the board].

// Lands
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [B] Island (1)
2 [B] Volcanic Island
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins [or island #5 ... really not that sure here]

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [SC] Stifle
1 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [OD] Standstill
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [-] Mental Misstep

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 3 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [DK] Blood Moon
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce / REB
SB: 1 [-] Mental Misstep
SB: 3 [IN] Wash Out

This is what I am tooling around with at the moment. I got to admit that I was never that keen on the blacksplash and always really liked how wash out performed.

so long :)