Could I take a look at your list? Tournament reports with Aluren are few and far between these days.
[deck]
3 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs(should probably be a split with polluted delta, but didnt have them)
3 Forest
3 Island
1 Samp
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Intuition
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Aluren
2 Chain of Vapor
3 Raven Familiar
2 Man-o-war
2 Eternal Wittnes
2 Selkie Hedge-Mage
3 Cavern Harpy
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Coiling Oracle
[/deck]
The Sideboard was random, something with 4 Spell Pierce, Seeds of Innocence and other things.
An important card in the Sideboard is Loaming Shaman, but i didnt find him. However, i did not play against High Tide, so it didnt matter.
I played against: Affinity(2-0), Painter(1-2, mulligan to 4 :/ and 3-land-familiar, should have won here), Affinity(1-2, bad draw in game2 and game 3 a missplay), random noobpile(2-0), Geddonstax(2-1, Chalice@1 is so useless against aluren^^). Bad Draw means i didnt draw enough lands, this was my problem the whole day, i did take far more mulligans then ever before. At a normal day i should have gone better with aluren in this Metagame.
The manabase is ok as it is to me, I personally have been waiting for enemy fetchlands so badly. I'd run Deltas only if I wanted more than 8 fetchlands, but that's just me.
How is Vendilion Clique going? Any synergy problems between Chain of Vapor and Selkie? And are 3 Familiars and 2 Selkies good for you? I mean, it doesn't have to be wrong, but I'm so used to playing 4 of each that any list containing less inevitably catches my attention.
In the tournament i did use Chain of Vapor only to bounce attacing Affinity creatures, i never had to combo with it. While testing i only once had a problem with it, mostly you can stop before or recovere lands with Oracles or produce enough blockers to survive. But this antisynergy is the biggest problem with selkie, you're right with that.
Why do you want to play 4 Selkies? I was fine with my combination, i think otherwhise it would be a problem having so many 3-drops. Beside, i dont see how to get the space.
Vendilion Clique was good, i used it once to combo off by argeting myself and anothertime i screwed an Affinityplayer by taking his Springleafdrum :P. Its nice to have, but not absolutly needed. I prefer it rather than the 4 Familiar, because it has a better body, so it kills many creatures by blocking. Beside this it fits in more different roles than familiar. Its digging in the combo, it protects the combo, it beats, it blocks, it makes your oponen making nothing after the combo. 2 are enough, more are not needed, but they are nice to have.
PS: pls forgive my bad english, i hope you understand what i'm writing.
I'm not English either, and I understand everything you wrote, don't worry.
I tend to be extreme with the numbers, I guess that's why my decks don't always work as well as I'd like. Anyway, right now there are plenty of Zoo and Bant decks in my meta, and the ability to tell their Rhox War Monk or Wild Nacatl that their last attack has been rendered useless and they must be cast again is priceless. But I insist, it's a meta choice.
11 walls between Roots, Blossoms and Goyfs is my personal alternative version, there are Chains of Vapor as well, but then there's no room for Selkies. It's so hard to find a balance.
Before I said that I hadn't seen anything interesting in the spoiler, but perhaps I talked too early. Beast Within looks crappy, but it also has its potential. I think I'll give it a try somewhere. After all, I once got to the point of playing 4 Pongify, and while I doubt I'd play them again (even less now that everyone will play 4 Mental Misstep), they didn't totally suck either.
You dont always have the lands for the selkie, Man-o-war are better in bouncing creatures in my opinion.
They are not dependent on your lands and they are way better in the combo when you dont have the harpy.
In you meta i would probably play a third selkie, but its really hard to find something to cut. This is a huge problem with this deck, every card is so good and needed, i dont want to cut anything :/
Originally Posted by Hyped
So I just picked up 4 Imperial Recruiters last weekend. I want to run this deck in a tournament this weekend and wanted to know what peoples s/b look like.
Last year at gp Ohio some people were running Natural Order/ Progenitus combo. What do you guys think about this and has anyone tried it out?
Trying to trade into power!!!
Hit me up if you have any unlimited power that isn't creased. Maybe we can make a deal.
Sideboards should be tuned to your local metagame as predicted by prior events / scouting and thus cannot be accurately tuned for you by others.
With that out of the way, the main advantage a NO / Progenitus SB provides you with is that this sorcery win condition side steps any enchantment removal your opponent likely sided in against Aluren, IE: Krosan Grip. It also fits the deck's mana curve very nicely.
Cons would be that you are sacrificing a significant amount of sideboard space for an alternate win condition, rather than cards which would interact with problematic decks such as GY hate or what have you.
There is more to it, but I think that is a good start.
My current sideboard looks like this. I won't pretend it is optimal.
autumn's veil 2
krosan grip 3
elephant grass 2
divert 2
pernicious deed 2
inquisition of kozilek 3
Rishadan Cutpurse 1
If I were to put in NO / Projenitus, I would take out Autumn's Veil, Divert, and 1 K grip or Inquisition. I like elephant grass because I don't run many walls.
Have fun with the deck! I look forward to reading about your results with recruiter.
Depends whats your MD.
3x Cabal Therapy
3x NO
1x Progenitus
1x Arbor
3x Deed Pernicious
2x Echoing truth
2x Chain of vapor
I just don't think NO/Pro does enough for the sideboard space. It's close, tho. And I can easily see how some may disagree.
I like some GY hate (extirpate is my fav); some BEBs sometimes find their way to the SB; Reverent Silence can be a surprise; Llawan is a tailor made anti-Merfolk choice, at least 1 Echoing Truth, Elephant Grass test well, too. It's kinda up to you and what you expect and what's you're style.
How badly Torpor Orb disrupt this deck? I mean, you have a light Counterspell suit, but is it enough?
Perhaps a few K-Grips in the board are needed.
Against CB game 2 you side out aluren and side in NO/prog. and you smack around like there's no tomorrow.
I can't see torpor orb seeing much play - it isn't any good against any of the major decks, and I'd be rather surpirsed for anyone to have it in their sideboard just in case aluren came up.
I also think that MM may oddly assist aluren. If people start to lean on it to beat combo (as it is good vrs most combo decks) that can only help - it does not affect any of the main aluren pieces, just picking off the support players. I'd certain prefer to see a sea of these over, say, mindbreak traps.
I am currently looking at a new board, with a GSZ package vrs control / fish (playing one harmonic sliver main deck, as well as one bone shredder):
3 disfigure
1 bone shredder
2 thoughtsieze
2 GSZ
3 xantid swarm
1 qasali pridemage
3 [others?]
Against aggro I can put in the removal package to seek to keep any hate bears / pridemages / lackies off the table (taking out either therapy or force, depending on what they are / whether they are likely to lean on k'grip). Vrs combo I take out one of my two dream stalkers and the main deck bone shredder, to give 4 force, 4 therapy, and 2 thoughtsieze in the deck, plus one harmonic sliver in case they have any hate themselves. Vrs fish an control I can take out various cards (depending on their build) for thoughtsieze and the green hate package. Probably take out 4 FoW plus other bits.
I previously tried the NO package, but was not sold on it. It is really there to dodge k'grip, but actually the grip is not that bad. If an opponent decides to sit there with 3 mana open each turn, then he is not exactly going to be doing much threatening, giving plenty of time to therapy (or thoughtsieze) it away. Obviously from time to time shit happens, but an opponent who just sits on therapy is going to lose more often than they win. qasalui pridemage is in many ways a bigger problem, as it is a clock and a threat to the enchantment, although can be played around with extra recruiters or combo piece in hand, or removed by disfigure.
Orb shuts down Aluren, but I'd like to see a competitive list which plays it as a 4 of before worrying about it.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
What I meant was that if you play a lifegain creature as your "kill" and you motivate that inclusion with the argument that "it's not as bad pre-combo", then you are actually fooling yourself. Both serve as win-cons and can not be safely played pre-combo. In this regard spike feeder is the best option, but he's not blue. Many games have been won with strix exiled to FoW.
@pharmacist: my current SB for the recruiter version of the deck is:
3 spell pierce
2 krosan grip
2 seeds of innocence
2 pithing needle
2 tormod's crypt
2 disfigure
2 pyroclasm
This is due to meta being full of elves, hate-bears.dec, trinisphere decks etc.
Btw. I think the new peek could be good in here. (gitaxian probe)
pros: thins the deck, improves cabal therapy, improves your game plan.
cons: 2 life can hurt but Im guessing it will be hardcast most of the time. Not knowing what this card will cantrip into makes mulligan descisions harder. Also it doesn't "do" anything.
Out of all these points I think the only really valid one is that it actually makes cabal therapy the complete nuts. Imagine the sick openers it provides against say AnT stripping them of often two cards and the best card for their game-state.
There is also a subtle problem with a cantrip that gives no card selection (i.e. it cantrips for one card). Although it effetively increases the density of combo pieces in your deck, it also increases the density of effective blanks. So in my build, for example, the following are often blanks: 1 cavern harpy, 2 dream stalker, 1 eternal witness, 1 harmonic sliver, 1 bone shredder, 1 parasitic strix. It therefore makes it slightly more likley that you'll find these in hand, whereas something like preordain will more frequently allow you to dodge these. There is also the mulligan problem, which you mention gottfrid.
It may be better in a non-IR version, where there are fewer blanks - so lower risk - and there is a little more difficulty in finding the combo - so a higher gain.
It can of course be good with therapy, but one just needs to learn to snipe better! Also, in realty, with some planning one can play round most hate with aluren, and frequently with therapy there is only one real problem card, so you just name that. Either you hit it, or they don't have it and you don't care. I know that there are exceptions (force of will or spell pierce against fish...??), but often that is the case.
Sure, but your argument is assuming that everything is kind of going according to plans.
frequently when I lose it's against decks that make many small disruption plays. In these games I think it will really help to remove a card they need for their game plan early and then get the real hate card (counterspell) off the flshback when you're going for it. For example against goblins you can nail their vial or lackey early and if you see krosan grip or extirpate you can falshback the therapy before you win.
Against threat light decks you can remove their only threat while knowing the counters they have which will buy you a ton of time to set up perfctly.
I'll test it now it's legal and report the results here.
Your point of drawing into the chaff is valid. I think gitaxian probe makes it even more important to not play your brainstorms until absolutely neccesary (which is already a general rule when playing this deck). BS is in my opinion in this deck mainly to get rid of blanks and protect against discard.
Don't like it sorry.
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