[Deck] White Weenie - Pariah

[Fade]

Hey everyone,

This is my first post on this site and I have been thinking of a white weenie type of deck list that abuses pariah with glittering lynx in order to void all the damage being dealt during combat. I guess you could consider it a deck to lock out the opponent and win by using various enchantments to overwhelm the opponent.

I have mapped out some of the cards that I would like to see in the deck from a casual deck I have been playing with for years, but I would like some suggestions in making it more competitive. Here is the list of cards that I believe have potential in the deck.

Core:

// Lands
Serra's Sanctum

// Creatures
Glittering Lynx

// Spells
Pariah
Flickering Ward

// Win Conditions
Sigil of the Empty Throne
// or
Luminarch Ascension


Possible:

// Lands
Karakas
Wasteland
Rishadan Port
Emeria, the Sky Ruin
White Fetchlands

// Creatures
Glittering Lion
Weathered Wayferer
Knight of White Orchid

// Spells
Cursed Totem
Cho-Manno’s Blessing
Inviolability
Oblivion Ring
Journey to Nowhere
Crackdown
Spiritual Asylum
Solitary Confinement
Replenish
Karmic Justice
Humility
Enlightened Tutor

[Kich867]

So what happens when they Ghastly Demise / Go For The Throat / Swords to Plowshares / Vindicate / Maelstrom Pulse / Bounce every other removal in the game the Lynx?

[(nameless one)]

So what happens when they Ghastly Demise / Go For The Throat / Swords to Plowshares / Vindicate / Maelstrom Pulse / Bounce every other removal in the game the Lynx?

By the looks of it, you initiate scoop phase and move to the next game.

[morgan_coke]

nice dudes, way to welcome the guy with only one post.

Fade, welcome to mtgthesource and Legacy. If you want to improve your plan, I recommend adding more creatures like Glittering Lynx (Knight of the Holy Nimbus comes to mind) and more damage redirection effects. You should also look at pithing needles, suppression fields, and phyrexian revokers as a means of keeping your opponent from paying the costs on lynx and knight. I would also recommend supplementing cards like crackdown with meekstone, alternatively, you could play things like spectral procession, ajani goldmane, honor of the pure and crusade.

You should also look for ways to disrupt your opponents besides just preventing damage with redirection as many legacy decks will be able to get around those effects after a short time. good luck and don't let random assholes like the first two posters in this thread deter you. they were also new at one time.

[Kich867]

I really didn't think I was being out of line, wondering what the deck's plan is if a creature dies seems like a legitimate question. Outrider en-Kor may be something to think about.

Pariah's Shield to have another source of pariah (that's able to be moved around at will). I don't think the enchantment-land is necessary since your enchantments are a little bit on the expensive side, there will probably be times where it will pretty much only tap for 1.

You may want to think about putting this in some kind of Enchantress shell and utilize a -lot- of enchantments to make both Serra's Sanctum and your Pariah / Lynx combo less of a focus and more of something that just happens because you're playing (if you get what I mean--if you focus too hard on having Pariah and Lynx out, removing one of them leaves you with nothing to really work with).

Furthermore, in an enchantress shell, you'll have extra security and a more consistent, reliable way to play your enchantments. Try taking a look at some of the stuff here: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?5302-[Deck]-Solitaire-%28Enchantress%29&p=531322&viewfull=1#post531322

[(nameless one)]

Cho Manno, Revolutionary and Pariah is an old school combo that prevents you from losing.

[Fade]

Thanks for the responses. I understand that creature removal will be a big problem for the deck and so I went looking on the Gatherer and found a card similar to Sterling Grove that would work a lot better for this type of deck. Greater Auramancy would be a very useful card as it will protect the creatures from most removal as long as it is enchanted with a Pariah or Flickering Ward and it will even provide protection for the other enchantments in the deck. Alternatively, once you know what your opponent is playing, you could just attach a Flickering Ward to the creature and give it protection from some or most of your opponent's removal.

With that being said, I guess I should have made a mock decklist for everyone to understand what I was trying to do with the deck and how the cards work with each other. So here one is.

// Creatures = 14
4x Glittering Lynx
4x Knight of the Holy Nimbus
4x Knight of the White Orchid
2x Dawn Elemental

// Spells = 24
4x Pariah
4x Flickering Ward
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Greater Auramancy
3x Luminarch Ascension
3x Cursed Totem
2x Replenish

// Lands = 22
2x Arid Mesa
2x Marsh Flats
2x Windswept Heath
3x Karakas
3x Serra’s Sanctum
2x Emeria, the Sky Ruin
7x Plains

// SB
3x Oblivion Ring
3x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Kor Firewalker
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Karmic Justice
1x Crackdown


I was also looking at some other potential cards that could go into the deck that might be a good fit or to test around with.
Clergy of the Holy Nimbus
Crusade
Honor of the Pure
Divine Offering
Leonin Arbiter
Ethersworn Canonist
Tormod's Crypt
Cho-Manno Revolutionary
Mesa Enchantress
Mother of Runes
Stoneforge Mystic
Pariah’s Shield

[Kich867]

If you see them drop something like a Scrubland or some sort of possible white fetch land, you know that Swords / Vindicate will be something to worry. White is actually one of the more common removal colors.

Also, don't run fetches, I'm fairly certain it's been proven that fetch lands for mono colored decks are only harmful--the deck thinning is negligible and the damage you take to get a useful amount of thinning would be excessive.

You're taking 1 life to remove a single card out of ~53 from your deck. That's not a good ratio.

I like the list for the most part, some things I'd think about are dropping the knight of the white orchid, I feel like he'll often just be a 2 mana 2/2 first strike. Also--Elspeth, Knight-Errant may be a really good choice. It will let you turn your weenies into powerful flying beaters, all the while building up for her last ability. Once she makes everything you have indestructible, with Pariah you basically can't lose, the only way to stop it would be to exile the creature that has Pariah on it--but if Greater Auramancy is down, they can't target it.

The biggest concern will be highly aggressive decks and mass enchantment destruction.

[troopatroop]

Mother of Runes

[Moosedog]

ha. I was actually trying to put together a list with pariah. This is something I came up with.

vial 4
mother 4
Painter 4
serra avenger 2
qasali pridemage 4
gaddock tegg 3
grindstone 2
flickering ward 3
pariah 3
Enlightened tutor 4
pithing needle 1
o ring 1
jitte 2
cataclysm 3

savannah 4
plains 3
forest 1
wasteland 4
windswept heath 4
flagstones 3
21

-Painter was put in because of all the protection already in there for pariah. Also the enlightened tutor fit well to access the pariah and the missing piece of painter combo. I think cataclysm is a house even though this deck doesn't optimize it very well.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Posted in the other thread, but I'll throw in some comments here.

In the new meta, I can definitely see where something like;

4 Mother of Runes
4 Burrenton Forge-Tender
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Soltari Monk
4 Beloved Chaplain
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Dawn Elemental
1 Pariah
1 Parallax Wave
1 Aura of Silence
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Ancient Den
15 Plains
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Karakas

Would be at least somewhat competitive.

[Fade]

I like the list for the most part, some things I'd think about are dropping the knight of the white orchid, I feel like he'll often just be a 2 mana 2/2 first strike. Also--Elspeth, Knight-Errant may be a really good choice. It will let you turn your weenies into powerful flying beaters, all the while building up for her last ability. Once she makes everything you have indestructible, with Pariah you basically can't lose, the only way to stop it would be to exile the creature that has Pariah on it--but if Greater Auramancy is down, they can't target it.

I don't know why I didn't think of Elspeth but I think Elspeth will add a lot to the deck. As for the Knight of the White Orchid, I thought it might be nice to have some sort of card advantage in the deck and at least with Knight of the White Orchid you get some extra lands.

Mother of Runes

Mother of Runes was a consideration for the start of the deck but it will end up being a 1/1 for 1 if Cursed Totem is in play. So I ended up cutting it from the list.

ha. I was actually trying to put together a list with pariah. This is something I came up with.
...
-Painter was put in because of all the protection already in there for pariah. Also the enlightened tutor fit well to access the pariah and the missing piece of painter combo. I think cataclysm is a house even though this deck doesn't optimize it very well.

Painter's Servant is very interesting with the Flickering Ward.

Another problem I have realized with the deck is that it loses to infect. I was playing the other day with some friends and even though the glittering lynx may prevent the damage it still gets the -1/-1 counters and would die that way. But thankfully, infect is not very popular.

[Kich867]

From what I understand, no, the lynx does not get the -1/-1 counters applied to it. If you prevent all damage done to the Lynx, that means it doesn't receive combat damage and infect can't apply the counters (infect states that the creature deals damage in the form of -1/-1 counters, if the damage is prevented it would prevent those counters).

I could be wrong about that, but that's how I understand it. Similarly, creatures who have protection from black being attacked by a black infect creature won't receive -1/-1 counters since the protection prevents all damage to it.

[Fade]

From what I understand, no, the lynx does not get the -1/-1 counters applied to it. If you prevent all damage done to the Lynx, that means it doesn't receive combat damage and infect can't apply the counters (infect states that the creature deals damage in the form of -1/-1 counters, if the damage is prevented it would prevent those counters).

I could be wrong about that, but that's how I understand it. Similarly, creatures who have protection from black being attacked by a black infect creature won't receive -1/-1 counters since the protection prevents all damage to it.

You could be right, I think at the time me and my friends were arguing about it and we just decided that damage was prevented but the -1/-1 counters would still be put on the lynx. I'll have to look into it more.

[a-slice-of-cake]

Never fear, judge is here! *fanfare*

Infect deals damage in the form of -1/-1 counters; however, it is still damage and can be prevented the same way normal damage is.

It's easy to confuse this with a substitution effect, and if infect read "Whenever this creature would deal damage to a creature, put an equal number of -1/-1 counters on it instead" then your Glittering Lynx would have good reason to fear our Phyrexian friends. However, because the counters are how an infect creature deals damage, anything that would normally prevent damage e.g. Healing Salve or, I dunno, Glittering Lynx would stop that much infect as well, be it counters on a creature or poison counters on a player.

That said, welcome to Legacy! Do you just play Legacy casually with friends, or are you hoping to take something up to a tournament sometime? In any case, BearAssassin has made some excellent suggestions. I do warn you that using Mother of Runes recklessly can be a problem: If you give a Pariah'd Lynx protection from white, the Pariah falls off. While that's still probably better than having it exiled, it's something to consider.

One of the major weaknesses I see in the deck right now is its lack of pressure it puts on the opponent. Getting your damage-stopping combo out doesn't seem that tough, but then you have to actually kill them before they get an out. Aside from Mirran Crusader in Assassin's post, there aren't many reliable clocks in the deck (Dawn Elemental is slooooooow). How to solve this I'm not sure yet.

Hey assassin, what do you think of a 1-of Mortarpod as part of the stoneforge package?

*Disclaimer* I'm technically not a judge yet, but I'm taking my level 1 exam in two days. I'm 100% positive on this one though, so don't let that worry you.

[Fade]

Never fear, judge is here! *fanfare*

Infect deals damage in the form of -1/-1 counters; however, it is still damage and can be prevented the same way normal damage is.

It's easy to confuse this with a substitution effect, and if infect read "Whenever this creature would deal damage to a creature, put an equal number of -1/-1 counters on it instead" then your Glittering Lynx would have good reason to fear our Phyrexian friends. However, because the counters are how an infect creature deals damage, anything that would normally prevent damage e.g. Healing Salve or, I dunno, Glittering Lynx would stop that much infect as well, be it counters on a creature or poison counters on a player.

That said, welcome to Legacy! Do you just play Legacy casually with friends, or are you hoping to take something up to a tournament sometime? In any case, BearAssassin has made some excellent suggestions. I do warn you that using Mother of Runes recklessly can be a problem: If you give a Pariah'd Lynx protection from white, the Pariah falls off. While that's still probably better than having it exiled, it's something to consider.

One of the major weaknesses I see in the deck right now is its lack of pressure it puts on the opponent. Getting your damage-stopping combo out doesn't seem that tough, but then you have to actually kill them before they get an out. Aside from Mirran Crusader in Assassin's post, there aren't many reliable clocks in the deck (Dawn Elemental is slooooooow). How to solve this I'm not sure yet.

Hey, thanks for the reply and rule clarification. I guess infect isn't really something to worry too much about now. I mostly play casually with friends, but I have been trying to go more competitive.