Doran deck help (Loam, cycle lands, KotR, Armageddon)

[daugarten]

I recently put together my first EDH deck using Doran, the Siege Tower, and I'm having a ton of fun with it so far. However, I was wondering what players thought about the inclusion of Life from the Loam with the 6 cycle lands. I have lots of tutors for the Loam and I think the card draw plus being able to cycle off late land draws would be pretty nice.

Armageddon and Knight of the Reliquary are possible inclusions as well. Essentially, once I work up to enough mana any cycle lands I get will never be played, I can recur the lands for endless drawing for very, very little mana investment, they buff my Knight, Loam allows me to play Armageddon more safely (with 2 spare mana coming from creatures/artifacts), and the Armageddon would make my Knight a crazy win-con, especially given the number of Wrath effects I have to ensure board position. Crop Rotation is an easy-in since it can toss any played cycle lands into my graveyard for retrieval.


Is this powerful in EDH and worth the inclusion?

[mchainmail]

It seems far more fitting for 1-on-1 EDH, as opposed to group games. Armageddon effects are *typically* frowned upon in multiplayer. There's a couple quasi-armageddon effects as well, for redundancy.

Also, Terravore is better than Knight post-Geddon.

[Tammit67]

I recently put together my first EDH deck using Doran, the Siege Tower, and I'm having a ton of fun with it so far. However, I was wondering what players thought about the inclusion of Life from the Loam with the 6 cycle lands. I have lots of tutors for the Loam and I think the card draw plus being able to cycle off late land draws would be pretty nice.

Armageddon and Knight of the Reliquary are possible inclusions as well. Essentially, once I work up to enough mana any cycle lands I get will never be played, I can recur the lands for endless drawing for very, very little mana investment, they buff my Knight, Loam allows me to play Armageddon more safely (with 2 spare mana coming from creatures/artifacts), and the Armageddon would make my Knight a crazy win-con, especially given the number of Wrath effects I have to ensure board position. Crop Rotation is an easy-in since it can toss any played cycle lands into my graveyard for retrieval.


Is this powerful in EDH and worth the inclusion?

I've always found the cycling lands to absolutely suck in the opening hand and being only marginally playable otherwise. You can't really count on them for mana when you need them, and pretty much have to play around the CiPT clause. You'd need Vorath's Stronghold to really help. It is an mana intensive draw engine.

The 'geddon effects are cool with me though :). If you are going to go for something, might as well actually go for it.

[Benjammn]

The 'geddon effects are cool with me though :). If you are going to go for something, might as well actually go for it.

While choosing a strategy and sticking to it is fine, do realize that as soon as you are recognized as "the guy that plays Knight/Terravore and looks to resolve Armageddons", people will be.....aggressive about ensuring you don't get to do so (additionally, when the geddon is a dead draw it is such a dead draw, but that is my opinion). EDH is a more political game than anything if you play with a group regularly and generally you don't want to get everyone angry at you or else the experience for you will diminish when the blue player counters all of your spells, the black player kills all of your guys, and the green player is swinging in your direction all in the same game because "your deck is full of 'geddons". Personally, I designed my decks walk a fine line between appearing harmless and being able to win out of nowhere so that while I still can win decently well, I don't have people pissed off at me every game I win because I comboed out or killed their lands. It all depends on the group though: if everyone you play with is packing machine guns, don't come with a sword.

Matt: This is just a general reply in response to your comment to bring up a point, not really directed at you or anything. :P

[daugarten]

Thanks for the advice all. I pretty much base the deck around surviving the early game and keeping a low profile with some big blockers and spot removal if attacked. Later I'll wipe the board with Wrath effects to clear the ground for my bomb creatures.

The Armageddon idea was intended to be just a one-of, not a theme. I've added KotR to the deck already since it's incredibly useful to tutor for utility lands. Thought I may as well throw in a 4cmc spell that not only buffs the Knight, but hurts my opponents big time as well. [card]Crucible of Worlds[/cards] is definitely in now too.

Getting ready to premier the deck this coming Wednesday so I'll find out how the EDH group at my local store feels about Armageddon. I've considered multiplayer aspects and how to play something that doesn't draw everyone's attention (playing solid cards that are great together or on their own, not playing a mean general and combo'ing everyone out of the game right away), but I never really considered that people will just frown on Armageddon period.

The vibe I'm getting about cycle lands is that they're not worth clearing 6 land slots in my deck for. By leaving them out KotR becomes something my opponents can more easily ignore and I can continue using it for the land tutors.

[Tammit67]

While choosing a strategy and sticking to it is fine, do realize that as soon as you are recognized as "the guy that plays Knight/Terravore and looks to resolve Armageddons"

Matt: This is just a general reply in response to your comment to bring up a point, not really directed at you or anything. :P

Yeah, b/c you kill my cloudstone curio everytime it hits play? :p

With effects like that, sure you end up getting targeted heavily, but only until someone else starts building their deck similarly. Once everyone in your group has the ability to just do something stupid, no one can target anyone specifically without getting sideswipped by everything. Politics plays into it if the decks aren't on the same power level. There is no reason to have an alliance with someone who can win on the spot, so if everyone can, no real alliances.

[daugarten]

Here's the list I have in mind. My current deck is built and has almost all of these cards, minus a few big ones. I think it would be too difficult to squeeze cycle lands in and I'd have to drop either basics (not good for KotR) or utility lands (also not good for KotR).

Is this enough card draw?

Creatures:
1x Academy Rector
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Doran, the Siege Tower
1x Eternal Witness
1x Genesis
1x Indomitable Ancients
1x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Ohran Viper
1x Protean Hulk
1x Reya Dawnbringer
1x Royal Assassin
1x Sheoldred, Whispering One
1x Stonehewer Giant
1x Vengeful Archon
1x Vigor
1x Woodfall Primus

Planeswalkers:
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
1x Liliana Vess

Spells:
1x Armageddon
1x Austere Command
1x Condemn
1x Crop Rotation
1x Decree of Pain
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Exsanguinate
1x Final Judgment
1x Hallowed Burial
1x Harrow
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Krosan Grip
1x Life from the Loam
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Mortify
1x Nature's Spiral
1x Phyrexian Rebirth
1x Plague Wind
1x Profane Command
1x Putrefy
1x Rampant Growth
1x Regrowth
1x Syphon Mind
1x Unmake
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Wrath of God

Enchantments:
1x Armadillo Cloak
1x Asceticism
1x Aura Shards
1x Debtors' Knell
1x Mirari's Wake
1x Pernicious Deed
1x Phyrexian Arena

Artifacts:
1x Behemoth Sledge
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Mind's Eye
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Slagwurm Armor
1x Sol Ring
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Sword of War and Peace

Lands:
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Forbidding Watchtower
4x Forest
1x Gilt-Leaf Palace
1x Godless Shrine
1x Golgari Rot Farm
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Kor Haven
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mirrodin's Core
1x Nantuko Monastery
1x Orzhov Basilica
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Phyrexian Tower
5x Plains
1x Rupture Spire
1x Selesnya Sanctuary
1x Stirring Wildwood
1x Strip Mine
3x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple Garden
1x Temple of the False God
1x Unstable Frontier
1x Vesuva
1x Volrath's Stronghold

Yeah, the mana base could be better, but I've only got so much money. It'll be upgraded slowly over time.